Buying a car from a dealer, problem - refund/repair advice?

[TTommy]

Hi all,

Posting for a family member who is having some trouble.

TL;DR They went to buy a car from reputable used car dealership, everything looked good, he agreed to fix a few problems (Heated seats, new tyres etc) and a deposit was paid, agreeing to the full asking price of the car.

Perfect, they thought! The work was carried out over 2 weeks.

Then said car was collected and purchased 3 days ago - Thursday 27th Oct for reference!

Upon paying the full price and returning home, they noticed some 'damp' smelling seatbelts. The car was then not used from Thursday eve until this morning, when, upon opening up the car, both drivers side footwell and passenger footwell were noticeably wet. Damp patches under the carpets.

What's worse is that also at the back of the seats it felt damp.

Also, towards the back near the seatbelt tower it was all wet and with a torch you can see exposed cables / wiring and lots of wetness.

The car was checked over when buying and wetness wasn't noticed (I guess as it hadn't been raining!) (Soft-top)


So as far as I was concerned it's this: (Taken from the AA website here http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-buyers-gu... )

"The Consumer Rights Act
The Consumer Rights Act came into force on 1 October 2015 and covers the purchase of goods, digital content and services including new and used cars from official dealers (it doesn't apply to private sales) as well as servicing, repairs and maintenance work.

Like the Sale of Goods Act that preceded it, the Consumer Rights Act states that products must be:

of satisfactory quality
fit for purpose, and
as described
(For cars purchased before 1 October 2015 the Sale of Goods Act still applies)"

Specifically THIS:

"The dealer must have the right to sell the vehicle and is liable for faults with the vehicle - that meant it was not of satisfactory quality - that were present at the time it was sold even though they may only become apparent later on."



https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-...





We phoned up and took it back today, and they clearly saw the problem and right away seemed inclined to rectify the problem. (Fair enough)

But our worry is that the wet cables could cause electrical gremlins of all sorts in the future, so said family member wanted a refund.

The salesman did not agree to this, and said he knows the law - they have one chance to rectify it before a refund?

Can anyone verify this?

We said all about the 30 day rejection Consumer rights act but he did not believe this was applicable. Happy to be corrected if so.



Could the seller be getting confused with the 'Over 30 days' procedure?

E.g.

"Faults, repairs and refunds
Under the new act, if a fault renders the product not of satisfactory quality, not fit for purpose or not as described, then the buyer is entitled to reject it within the first 30 days.

Between 30 days and 6 months
If a fault comes to light after 30 days but before 6 months have passed then you are entitled to a repair, replacement or refund. It is assumed in law that the fault was present at the time of purchase unless the seller can prove otherwise. During this period, unless you have agreed otherwise, the seller (dealer) has only one opportunity to repair (or replace) the faulty vehicle after which, if they fail to repair it, you are entitled to a refund."






If anyone could shed any light or advice that would be most appreciated.

As it stands its back with them getting looked at next week, on our way out he said if it's not repaired we will get our full refund? Which seemed very odd to us.

Thanks all.

[sherbertdip]

TTommy said:

Hi all,

Posting for a family member who is having some trouble.

TL;DR They went to buy a car from reputable used car dealership, everything looked good, he agreed to fix a few problems (Heated seats, new tyres etc) and a deposit was paid, agreeing to the full asking price of the car.

Perfect, they thought! The work was carried out over 2 weeks.

Then said car was collected and purchased 3 days ago - Thursday 27th Oct for reference!

Upon paying the full price and returning home, they noticed some 'damp' smelling seatbelts. The car was then not used from Thursday eve until this morning, when, upon opening up the car, both drivers side footwell and passenger footwell were noticeably wet. Damp patches under the carpets.

What's worse is that also at the back of the seats it felt damp.

Also, towards the back near the seatbelt tower it was all wet and with a torch you can see exposed cables / wiring and lots of wetness.

The car was checked over when buying and wetness wasn't noticed (I guess as it hadn't been raining!) (Soft-top)


So as far as I was concerned it's this: (Taken from the AA website here http://www.theaa.com/motoring_advice/car-buyers-gu... )

"The Consumer Rights Act
The Consumer Rights Act came into force on 1 October 2015 and covers the purchase of goods, digital content and services including new and used cars from official dealers (it doesn't apply to private sales) as well as servicing, repairs and maintenance work.

Like the Sale of Goods Act that preceded it, the Consumer Rights Act states that products must be:

of satisfactory quality
fit for purpose, and
as described
(For cars purchased before 1 October 2015 the Sale of Goods Act still applies)"

Specifically THIS:

"The dealer must have the right to sell the vehicle and is liable for faults with the vehicle - that meant it was not of satisfactory quality - that were present at the time it was sold even though they may only become apparent later on."



https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/buying-...





We phoned up and took it back today, and they clearly saw the problem and right away seemed inclined to rectify the problem. (Fair enough)

But our worry is that the wet cables could cause electrical gremlins of all sorts in the future, so said family member wanted a refund.

The salesman did not agree to this, and said he knows the law - they have one chance to rectify it before a refund?

Can anyone verify this?

We said all about the 30 day rejection Consumer rights act but he did not believe this was applicable. Happy to be corrected if so.



Could the seller be getting confused with the 'Over 30 days' procedure?

E.g.

"Faults, repairs and refunds
Under the new act, if a fault renders the product not of satisfactory quality, not fit for purpose or not as described, then the buyer is entitled to reject it within the first 30 days.

Between 30 days and 6 months
If a fault comes to light after 30 days but before 6 months have passed then you are entitled to a repair, replacement or refund. It is assumed in law that the fault was present at the time of purchase unless the seller can prove otherwise. During this period, unless you have agreed otherwise, the seller (dealer) has only one opportunity to repair (or replace) the faulty vehicle after which, if they fail to repair it, you are entitled to a refund."






If anyone could shed any light or advice that would be most appreciated.

As it stands its back with them getting looked at next week, on our way out he said if it's not repaired we will get our full refund? Which seemed very odd to us.

Thanks all.

Firstly is it a family member's car or yours as you slip into "we, our" later in post.

What is the fault?

Are sure it wasn't just the person who cleaned the outside of the car with a pressure washer and the roof down or not secured properly?

Garage have said they will look at it and offer full refund if not repaired, so what's the problem?

[Vaud]

Is it an MX5?

[Mojooo]

The confusion arises fro mthe fact that 2 sets of remedies run alongside eachother - see table on page 31

https://www.businesscompanion.info/sites/default/f...

you can reject for a full refund in 30 days without having a repair.

[TTommy]

Hi -

Thanks for the replies.

SherbertDip - No, it's a family members, as it's 'my' family I slipped a few (We's) in there as I went with them today. The 'issue' is that we don't know just how long it may have been like it for. Whilst it wasn't picked up on the first viewing, it may not have been raining that day. You can look down the soft top window and see electrical cables and small puddles of water. Which leads you to the question - is this going to be a gremlin in a few years time?

Vaud - No. Audi TT.

Brilliant thanks MoJooo. That's pretty much what we said then and there, to which he said no, I'll get my legal team involved...



Cheers guys.

[TTommy]

Ah fk.

Reading that page 31 it shows if the repair option is chosen, and your still not happy, it can then be a 'partial' refund.

Perhaps this is why he was pushing us for the repair so much.


Ah balls. Can we change our mind before work is started on Monday?

So far as I can see.. we can simply reject it because of the unknown apparent problem.

If he wants to get his legal team to check that, so be it?

[Mojooo]

yes just go back and say you want to use your right to reject under section 20

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/sectio...

"The right is exercised if the consumer indicates to the trader that the consumer is rejecting the goods and treating the contract as at an end."

Look at this section

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/sectio...

"If the consumer requests or agrees to the repair or replacement of goods, the period mentioned in subsection (3) or (4) stops running for the length of the waiting period."

Basically if you AGREE to the repair the time limit stops but you are under no obligation to.

the position is different once the 30 days has passed - but which is not relevant to you.

[Andyjc86]

Surely you can't reject it because of the possibility the a wet wire might cause a problem in the future?

[TTommy]

Andyjc86 said:

Surely you can't reject it because of the possibility the a wet wire might cause a problem in the future?

I'm not so sure it's just 1 wet wire?


Both footwells (Drivers and passenger) were noticeably wet. Also behind the seats.

Maybe someone can advise what is behind the drivers seat behind the seatbelt tower but it looks like an electrical board / fuses. Which you don't really want getting wet..?

[anonymous-user]

Mojooo said:

yes just go back and say you want to use your right to reject under section 20

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/sectio...

"The right is exercised if the consumer indicates to the trader that the consumer is rejecting the goods and treating the contract as at an end."

Look at this section

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2015/15/sectio...

"If the consumer requests or agrees to the repair or replacement of goods, the period mentioned in subsection (3) or (4) stops running for the length of the waiting period."

Basically if you AGREE to the repair the time limit stops but you are under no obligation to.

the position is different once the 30 days has passed - but which is not relevant to you.

This.

If you're adamant you want to reject it then do so. He is not entitled to carry out a repair in the first 30 days.

If the 30 day period has passed (not from the time you bought it, it's the amount of time you've actually had it when not being repaired), then you are obliged to let him have one attempt to repair.

If you're going to reject in the first 30 days, you need to show the fault existed at the point of sale - it clearly did as indicated by his willingness to repair.

[anonymous-user]

TTommy said:

Ah fk.

Reading that page 31 it shows if the repair option is chosen, and your still not happy, it can then be a 'partial' refund.

Perhaps this is why he was pushing us for the repair so much.


Ah balls. Can we change our mind before work is started on Monday?

So far as I can see.. we can simply reject it because of the unknown apparent problem.

If he wants to get his legal team to check that, so be it?

A partial refund is not applicable if you exercise the short term right to a refund. I.e in the first 30 days.

He is obliged to give a full refund. If you part exchanged a car against it, he is obliged to give you back the agreed amount he gave you for it. He is also obliged to come and collect the wet car from you.

[Bemmer]

bmw535i said:

A partial refund is not applicable if you exercise the short term right to a refund. I.e in the first 30 days.

He is obliged to give a full refund. If you part exchanged a car against it, he is obliged to give you back the agreed amount he gave you for it. He is also obliged to come and collect the wet car from you.

Wow... that's great news... i can buy a few cars on my wish list and then after ive had my fun in it pour a couple of buckets of water under the seat and get my money back and even get it collected from my home....

[anonymous-user]

Bemmer said:

bmw535i said:

A partial refund is not applicable if you exercise the short term right to a refund. I.e in the first 30 days.

He is obliged to give a full refund. If you part exchanged a car against it, he is obliged to give you back the agreed amount he gave you for it. He is also obliged to come and collect the wet car from you.

Wow... that's great news... i can buy a few cars on my wish list and then after ive had my fun in it pour a couple of buckets of water under the seat and get my money back and even get it collected from my home....

If that's how you interpret my posts then fair enough.

[TTommy]

bmw535i said:

A partial refund is not applicable if you exercise the short term right to a refund. I.e in the first 30 days.

He is obliged to give a full refund. If you part exchanged a car against it, he is obliged to give you back the agreed amount he gave you for it. He is also obliged to come and collect the wet car from you.

Excellent - thanks for the help guys.

[fastbikes76]

Andyjc86 said:

Surely you can't reject it because of the possibility the a wet wire might cause a problem in the future?

I certainly would.

Porsche Cayenne's are prone to water leaks in the passenger foot wells. The untold electrical gremlins they suffer with after the leak is frightening. Same as when I worked for VW and the EOS convertible's came out...leaked like sieves they did and we were changing almost complete interiors under warranty. Few years later they start drifting back for leccy issues.

Water leaks in cars are a big headache and a long term issue, Reject the car.

[Mojooo]

Bemmer said:

Wow... that's great news... i can buy a few cars on my wish list and then after ive had my fun in it pour a couple of buckets of water under the seat and get my money back and even get it collected from my home....

You seem to be suggesting consumers should never have the right to ask for a refund for faulty goods........

When using the right to reject the onus is on the consumer to prove the fault was there at sale and the dealer appears to accept this.

[Gallen]

Mojooo said:

You seem to be suggesting consumers should never have the right to ask for a refund for faulty goods........

When using the right to reject the onus is on the consumer to prove the fault was there at sale and the dealer appears to accept this.

Actually that's dependant on time;

Which said:

http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/...

"The first six months

If you discover the fault within the first six months from purchase, it is presumed to have been there since the time of purchase - unless the retailer can prove otherwise.

During this time it's up to the retailer to prove that the fault wasn't there at the point of purchase - it's not up to you to prove that it was.

If an attempt at repair or replacement has failed, you have the right to reject the goods for a full refund or price reduction - if you wish to keep the product.

No deduction can be made from a refund in the first six months following an unsuccessful attempt at repair or replacement.

The only exception to this rule is motor vehicles where a reasonable reduction may be made for the use you've already had of the vehicle after the first 30 days.

If you'd prefer to keep the goods in question you can request an appropriate price reduction."

[andymc]

usual load of drivel, you can reject within 30 days if the fault was pre existing and renders the car unfit, gearbox detonating/engine etc, they have offered to sort, let them sort it

[anonymous-user]

andymc said:

usual load of drivel, you can reject within 30 days if the fault was pre existing and renders the car unfit, gearbox detonating/engine etc, they have offered to sort, let them sort it

He CAN let them repair it, but not obliged to.

[andymc]

bmw535i said:

andymc said:

usual load of drivel, you can reject within 30 days if the fault was pre existing and renders the car unfit, gearbox detonating/engine etc, they have offered to sort, let them sort it

He CAN let them repair it, but not obliged to.

is the car unusable?