Speed limits on a Nissan Navara
Discussion
Hi All,
I am hoping some of our boys in blue who post on here can answer me a question please.
I have just taken delivery of a Nissan Navara Double Cab pick up and there seems to be confusion all over the place as to what speed limits it can be used at. Even Nissan are noncommittal on this one.
Below is the wording from the DVLA which states that it is weight related. The Navara has a Kerb weight, which I take to be the same as unladen weight, of 1968 kg so am I right this is okay to do 60 on single carriageway, 70 on dual and motorways?
To add to the confusion some have suggested it depends on if it is taxed as commercial or PLG. Ideally I would like to find a definitive source that could be quoted in the event of an erroneous claim if my interpretation is correct.
Thanks in advance
Dual purpose vehicles
A dual purpose vehicle is a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods and designed to weigh no more than 2,040 kg when unladen, and is either:
constructed or adapted so that the driving power of the engine is, or can be selected to be, transmitted to all wheels of the vehicle
or
permanently fitted with a rigid roof, at least one row of transverse passenger seats to the rear of the driver’s seat and will have side and rear windows - there must also be a minimum ratio between the size of passenger and stowage areas
I am hoping some of our boys in blue who post on here can answer me a question please.
I have just taken delivery of a Nissan Navara Double Cab pick up and there seems to be confusion all over the place as to what speed limits it can be used at. Even Nissan are noncommittal on this one.
Below is the wording from the DVLA which states that it is weight related. The Navara has a Kerb weight, which I take to be the same as unladen weight, of 1968 kg so am I right this is okay to do 60 on single carriageway, 70 on dual and motorways?
To add to the confusion some have suggested it depends on if it is taxed as commercial or PLG. Ideally I would like to find a definitive source that could be quoted in the event of an erroneous claim if my interpretation is correct.
Thanks in advance
Dual purpose vehicles
A dual purpose vehicle is a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods and designed to weigh no more than 2,040 kg when unladen, and is either:
constructed or adapted so that the driving power of the engine is, or can be selected to be, transmitted to all wheels of the vehicle
or
permanently fitted with a rigid roof, at least one row of transverse passenger seats to the rear of the driver’s seat and will have side and rear windows - there must also be a minimum ratio between the size of passenger and stowage areas
May be similar to when my father bought a VW Transporter converted after registration to a camper. It was registered as a van, and therefore subject to 50/60/70mph limits, then reregistered to PLG on the tax disc to lift that to 60/70/70. So check the class of registration on the V5.
You're correct, as long as it's < 2040kg UNLADEN, you're subject to car speed limits.
There are some DC pickups which do go over the weight limit (Ford Ranger from memory) and they're subject to the lower limits.
There are some DC pickups which do go over the weight limit (Ford Ranger from memory) and they're subject to the lower limits.
GOV.UK said:
Dual purpose vehicles
A dual purpose vehicle is a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods and designed to weigh no more than 2,040 kg when unladen, and is either:
constructed or adapted so that the driving power of the engine is, or can be selected to be, transmitted to all wheels of the vehicle
or
permanently fitted with a rigid roof, at least one row of transverse passenger seats to the rear of the driver’s seat and will have side and rear windows - there must also be a minimum ratio between the size of passenger and stowage areas
See The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 (Part 1 Regulation 3) for the full definition.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/car-der...A dual purpose vehicle is a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods and designed to weigh no more than 2,040 kg when unladen, and is either:
constructed or adapted so that the driving power of the engine is, or can be selected to be, transmitted to all wheels of the vehicle
or
permanently fitted with a rigid roof, at least one row of transverse passenger seats to the rear of the driver’s seat and will have side and rear windows - there must also be a minimum ratio between the size of passenger and stowage areas
See The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 (Part 1 Regulation 3) for the full definition.
Edited by Mammasaid on Monday 12th December 17:15
Tom_C76 said:
May be similar to when my father bought a VW Transporter converted after registration to a camper. It was registered as a van, and therefore subject to 50/60/70mph limits, then reregistered to PLG on the tax disc to lift that to 60/70/70. So check the class of registration on the V5.
It will need the body type changing to 'Motor Caravan' for a van conversion to have 60/70/70 {up to 3050kg Unladen Weight}. spaximus said:
To add to the confusion some have suggested it depends on if it is taxed as commercial or PLG.
If it fits the requirements of a dual-purpose vehicle, it's a dual-purpose vehicle and not subject to special speed (reduced) limits - taxation class is not relevant to this.b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: Oddly I saw the words "Navara" and "Speed limits" and assumed you were asking about the minimum speed they may be driven at.
I had noticed these things seem to somewhat hurtle on what look like off-road type tyres a lot. They are the headlights in my mirror I most often become suspicious of ie that they may be a traf pol as they catch up so much faster than anything else!Mammasaid said:
You're correct, as long as it's < 2040kg UNLADEN, you're subject to car speed limits.
There are some DC pickups which do go over the weight limit (Ford Ranger from memory) and they're subject to the lower limits.
Better still, look at the actual legislation: The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 - http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1986/1078/regul...There are some DC pickups which do go over the weight limit (Ford Ranger from memory) and they're subject to the lower limits.
GOV.UK said:
Dual purpose vehicles
A dual purpose vehicle is a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods and designed to weigh no more than 2,040 kg when unladen, and is either:
constructed or adapted so that the driving power of the engine is, or can be selected to be, transmitted to all wheels of the vehicle
or
permanently fitted with a rigid roof, at least one row of transverse passenger seats to the rear of the driver’s seat and will have side and rear windows - there must also be a minimum ratio between the size of passenger and stowage areas
See The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 (Part 1 Regulation 3) for the full definition.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/car-der...A dual purpose vehicle is a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods and designed to weigh no more than 2,040 kg when unladen, and is either:
constructed or adapted so that the driving power of the engine is, or can be selected to be, transmitted to all wheels of the vehicle
or
permanently fitted with a rigid roof, at least one row of transverse passenger seats to the rear of the driver’s seat and will have side and rear windows - there must also be a minimum ratio between the size of passenger and stowage areas
See The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 (Part 1 Regulation 3) for the full definition.
The definition of unladen weight in the above Regs is 'exclusive of the weight of water, fuel or accumulators used for the purpose of the supply of power for the propulsion of the vehicle'. Note: accumulators = battery/batteries.
It differs from both kerb weight and that defined by the EC Directive for Type Approval/Certificate of Conformity purposes. It is typical of the arcane labyrinth that typifies so much UK legislation and the disconnect between it and the people whom it is supposed to serve. No wonder there is so much confusion and misunderstanding. Even those who work in the field of enforcement don't seem to grasp the differences so what hope does Joe Public have?
Like others, I noted confusion on the regulations. In my 2 years of driving my 2016 Ford Ranger around Scotland and particularly on the well policed A90 there has been no problem with me keeping at the speed limits for cars. I have overtaken police cars being driven at 68mph and passed camera vans while doing 75.
SS2. said:
If it fits the requirements of a dual-purpose vehicle, it's a dual-purpose vehicle and not subject to special speed (reduced) limits - taxation class is not relevant to this.
the speed limits are not 'specially reduced' , in fact DPVs enjoy an exemption from the speed limit would would normally apply to a vehicle of that size ... Ms R.Saucy said:
SS2. said:
If it fits the requirements of a dual-purpose vehicle, it's a dual-purpose vehicle and not subject to special speed (reduced) limits - taxation class is not relevant to this.
the speed limits are not 'specially reduced' , in fact DPVs enjoy an exemption from the speed limit would would normally apply to a vehicle of that size ... Perhaps I've had too long a weekend.
Ms R.Saucy said:
SS2. said:
If it fits the requirements of a dual-purpose vehicle, it's a dual-purpose vehicle and not subject to special speed (reduced) limits - taxation class is not relevant to this.
the speed limits are not 'specially reduced' , in fact DPVs enjoy an exemption from the speed limit would would normally apply to a vehicle of that size ... Nissan bought my Navara back due to the chassis issues but this was my understanding, and I had plenty of interaction with coppers with it (have a team with 4 active coppers in it)
Subject to normal car restrictions and can drive as fast as a car with no problems. Was never mentioned by 2 of the traffic pol who regularly drove up and down the country with me and they are both pretty anal about some stuff.
Insured as a commercial vehicle even though it was used as a leisure vehicle (So van insurance really)
Taxed as a commercial vehicle
Was a good truck but trying to do a quick run to the local tip was a nightmare
(had to get a permit which took a week or two to come)
Hope that helps
Subject to normal car restrictions and can drive as fast as a car with no problems. Was never mentioned by 2 of the traffic pol who regularly drove up and down the country with me and they are both pretty anal about some stuff.
Insured as a commercial vehicle even though it was used as a leisure vehicle (So van insurance really)
Taxed as a commercial vehicle
Was a good truck but trying to do a quick run to the local tip was a nightmare
(had to get a permit which took a week or two to come)Hope that helps
tapereel said:
The kerb weight includes items that are fixed to it. A cab over the rear will most likely put it into the 2040kg+ class and hence lower the limit for the vehicle.
A cab over may well do what you say but it is still incorrect to refer to kerb weight when talking about the relevant speed limit for a vehicle which meets the dual purpose criteria.Kerb weight is not synonymous with the unladen weight definition in the C&U 1986 Regs. If you have any connection to enforcement you should already know that.
The difference in a vehicle which is close to, but under, the UW threshold figure could well have a kerb weight which exceeds it.
It doesn't help when the DVLA quote figures on a V5C which are not the UW. Anyone on the Land Rover forums will know exactly what I'm talking about here.
Furthermore, as SS2 correctly pointed out, the taxation class has nothing to with it either.
Red Devil said:
tapereel said:
The kerb weight includes items that are fixed to it. A cab over the rear will most likely put it into the 2040kg+ class and hence lower the limit for the vehicle.
A cab over may well do what you say but it is still incorrect to refer to kerb weight when talking about the relevant speed limit for a vehicle which meets the dual purpose criteria.Kerb weight is not synonymous with the unladen weight definition in the C&U 1986 Regs. If you have any connection to enforcement you should already know that.
The difference in a vehicle which is close to, but under, the UW threshold figure could well have a kerb weight which exceeds it.
It doesn't help when the DVLA quote figures on a V5C which are not the UW. Anyone on the Land Rover forums will know exactly what I'm talking about here.
Furthermore, as SS2 correctly pointed out, the taxation class has nothing to with it either.
TheLaw said:
The Road Vehicles(Construction and Use)Regulations 1986
dual-purpose vehicle
(i)a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods or burden of any description, being a vehicle of which the unladen weight does not exceed 2040 kg, and which either—
(ii)is so constructed or adapted that the driving power of the engine is, or by the appropriate use of the controls of the vehicle can be, transmitted to all the wheels of the vehicle; or
(a)satisfies the following conditions as to construction, namely—
(b)the vehicle must be permanently fitted with a rigid roof, with or without a sliding panel;
(i)the area of the vehicle to the rear of the driver's seat must—
(ii)be permanently fitted with at least one row of transverse seats (fixed or folding) for two or more passengers and those seats must be properly sprung or cushioned and provided with upholstered back-rests, attached either to the seats or to a side or the floor of the vehicle; and
(c)be lit on each side and at the rear by a window or windows of glass or other transparent material having an area or aggregate area of not less than 1850 square centimetres on each side and not less than 770 square centimetres at the rear; and the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the row of transverse seats satisfying the requirements specified in head (i) of sub-paragraph (b) (or, if there is more than one such row of seats, the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the rearmost such row) must, when the seats are ready for use, be not less than one-third of the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the rearmost part of the floor of the vehicle.
definition of unladen weight:
unladen weight the weight of a vehicle or trailer inclusive of the body and all parts (the heavier being taken where alternative bodies or parts are used) which are necessary to or ordinarily used with the vehicle or trailer when working on a road, but exclusive of the weight of water, fuel or accumulators used for the purpose of the supply of power for the propulsion of the vehicle or, as the case may be, of any vehicle by which the trailer is drawn, and of loose tools and loose equipment.
So if the Navara has additional parts on it that are affixed and normally used on the road the unladen weight may exceed that of the dual-purpose vehicle that is subject to car speed limits.dual-purpose vehicle
(i)a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods or burden of any description, being a vehicle of which the unladen weight does not exceed 2040 kg, and which either—
(ii)is so constructed or adapted that the driving power of the engine is, or by the appropriate use of the controls of the vehicle can be, transmitted to all the wheels of the vehicle; or
(a)satisfies the following conditions as to construction, namely—
(b)the vehicle must be permanently fitted with a rigid roof, with or without a sliding panel;
(i)the area of the vehicle to the rear of the driver's seat must—
(ii)be permanently fitted with at least one row of transverse seats (fixed or folding) for two or more passengers and those seats must be properly sprung or cushioned and provided with upholstered back-rests, attached either to the seats or to a side or the floor of the vehicle; and
(c)be lit on each side and at the rear by a window or windows of glass or other transparent material having an area or aggregate area of not less than 1850 square centimetres on each side and not less than 770 square centimetres at the rear; and the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the row of transverse seats satisfying the requirements specified in head (i) of sub-paragraph (b) (or, if there is more than one such row of seats, the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the rearmost such row) must, when the seats are ready for use, be not less than one-third of the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the rearmost part of the floor of the vehicle.
definition of unladen weight:
unladen weight the weight of a vehicle or trailer inclusive of the body and all parts (the heavier being taken where alternative bodies or parts are used) which are necessary to or ordinarily used with the vehicle or trailer when working on a road, but exclusive of the weight of water, fuel or accumulators used for the purpose of the supply of power for the propulsion of the vehicle or, as the case may be, of any vehicle by which the trailer is drawn, and of loose tools and loose equipment.
Anyone who uses such a vehicle needs to know what its weight is with the additional kit fixed to it. If it doesn't have a cab, tow-bar etc then it might be under weight.
Edited by tapereel on Monday 19th December 15:00
tapereel said:
So if the Navara has additional parts on it that are affixed and normally used on the road the unladen weight may exceed that of the dual-purpose vehicle that is subject to car speed limits.
Anyone who uses such a vehicle needs to know what its weight is with the additional kit fixed to it. If it doesn't have a cab, tow-bar etc then it might be under weight.
HMRC generally defines the weight of hard tops as 45kg, as in order to benefit from tax exemptions the payload must be > 1000kg after all accessories have been fitted.Anyone who uses such a vehicle needs to know what its weight is with the additional kit fixed to it. If it doesn't have a cab, tow-bar etc then it might be under weight.
https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/employmen...
tapereel said:
Here you go:
Anyone who uses such a vehicle needs to know what its weight is with the additional kit fixed to it. If it doesn't have a cab, tow-bar etc then it might be under weight.
You need not have bothered to post the above. I was already conversant with the C&U Regs. I can suck eggs as well as any grandma you care to mention. TheLaw said:
The Road Vehicles(Construction and Use)Regulations 1986
dual-purpose vehicle
(i)a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods or burden of any description, being a vehicle of which the unladen weight does not exceed 2040 kg, and which either—
(ii)is so constructed or adapted that the driving power of the engine is, or by the appropriate use of the controls of the vehicle can be, transmitted to all the wheels of the vehicle; or
(a)satisfies the following conditions as to construction, namely—
(b)the vehicle must be permanently fitted with a rigid roof, with or without a sliding panel;
(i)the area of the vehicle to the rear of the driver's seat must—
(ii)be permanently fitted with at least one row of transverse seats (fixed or folding) for two or more passengers and those seats must be properly sprung or cushioned and provided with upholstered back-rests, attached either to the seats or to a side or the floor of the vehicle; and
(c)be lit on each side and at the rear by a window or windows of glass or other transparent material having an area or aggregate area of not less than 1850 square centimetres on each side and not less than 770 square centimetres at the rear; and the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the row of transverse seats satisfying the requirements specified in head (i) of sub-paragraph (b) (or, if there is more than one such row of seats, the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the rearmost such row) must, when the seats are ready for use, be not less than one-third of the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the rearmost part of the floor of the vehicle.
definition of unladen weight:
unladen weight the weight of a vehicle or trailer inclusive of the body and all parts (the heavier being taken where alternative bodies or parts are used) which are necessary to or ordinarily used with the vehicle or trailer when working on a road, but exclusive of the weight of water, fuel or accumulators used for the purpose of the supply of power for the propulsion of the vehicle or, as the case may be, of any vehicle by which the trailer is drawn, and of loose tools and loose equipment.
So if the Navara has additional parts on it that are affixed and normally used on the road the unladen weight may exceed that of the dual-purpose vehicle that is subject to car speed limits.dual-purpose vehicle
(i)a vehicle constructed or adapted for the carriage both of passengers and of goods or burden of any description, being a vehicle of which the unladen weight does not exceed 2040 kg, and which either—
(ii)is so constructed or adapted that the driving power of the engine is, or by the appropriate use of the controls of the vehicle can be, transmitted to all the wheels of the vehicle; or
(a)satisfies the following conditions as to construction, namely—
(b)the vehicle must be permanently fitted with a rigid roof, with or without a sliding panel;
(i)the area of the vehicle to the rear of the driver's seat must—
(ii)be permanently fitted with at least one row of transverse seats (fixed or folding) for two or more passengers and those seats must be properly sprung or cushioned and provided with upholstered back-rests, attached either to the seats or to a side or the floor of the vehicle; and
(c)be lit on each side and at the rear by a window or windows of glass or other transparent material having an area or aggregate area of not less than 1850 square centimetres on each side and not less than 770 square centimetres at the rear; and the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the row of transverse seats satisfying the requirements specified in head (i) of sub-paragraph (b) (or, if there is more than one such row of seats, the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the back-rests of the rearmost such row) must, when the seats are ready for use, be not less than one-third of the distance between the rearmost part of the steering wheel and the rearmost part of the floor of the vehicle.
definition of unladen weight:
unladen weight the weight of a vehicle or trailer inclusive of the body and all parts (the heavier being taken where alternative bodies or parts are used) which are necessary to or ordinarily used with the vehicle or trailer when working on a road, but exclusive of the weight of water, fuel or accumulators used for the purpose of the supply of power for the propulsion of the vehicle or, as the case may be, of any vehicle by which the trailer is drawn, and of loose tools and loose equipment.
Anyone who uses such a vehicle needs to know what its weight is with the additional kit fixed to it. If it doesn't have a cab, tow-bar etc then it might be under weight.
At no time did I contest your point that a cab over might put the vehicle over the UW limit. Indeed I agreed with you.
However if you had bothered to read my post properly you would have realised that I was taking issue with your mention of kerb weight.
It is not the correct yardstick because, I repeat, it is not the same as unladen weight. It is essential to understand the difference.
Otherwise you're simply misleading those who don't.
As I started this topic, I have become more confused. The truck as listed has kerb weight of 1968 KG and now according to the last post HMRC counts a hard top as 45kg making it well under the 2040kg limit.
However, traffic law is something else, so as that is the base weight, how would any person using a camera know what it actually weighed or what limit applied.
I understand that should this be fitted with say a small hihab, then the weight would be significantly different, but as I understand it the weight posted by the manufacturer is empty of fuel and fluids, there is no mention of tools spare wheel and indeed the HMRC states that they ignore all other things so nothing to obviously denote weight. Going to a weigh bridge would not be the same criteria to use for that purpose as the fluids etc and knowing what state the manufacturer weighed it at.
I do not want to fall foul of the law and as others have said it is unlikely to be an issue for most but there seems to be no hard definitive rule. I suspect it would be like the Cat and Fiddle road where there is an average speed cameras set at 60mph that might give the greatest concern
Thames valley police on their frequently asked section says that if it is under 2040kg car limits apply. No further explanations. This is not easy to see how there can be consistency.
However, traffic law is something else, so as that is the base weight, how would any person using a camera know what it actually weighed or what limit applied.
I understand that should this be fitted with say a small hihab, then the weight would be significantly different, but as I understand it the weight posted by the manufacturer is empty of fuel and fluids, there is no mention of tools spare wheel and indeed the HMRC states that they ignore all other things so nothing to obviously denote weight. Going to a weigh bridge would not be the same criteria to use for that purpose as the fluids etc and knowing what state the manufacturer weighed it at.
I do not want to fall foul of the law and as others have said it is unlikely to be an issue for most but there seems to be no hard definitive rule. I suspect it would be like the Cat and Fiddle road where there is an average speed cameras set at 60mph that might give the greatest concern
Thames valley police on their frequently asked section says that if it is under 2040kg car limits apply. No further explanations. This is not easy to see how there can be consistency.
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