Parking Eye/POPLA
Discussion
I've been issued a notice to pay a fine. I provided evidence to Parking Eye and to POPLA that the fine was a nonsense. Parking Eye didn't provide my evidence to POPLA, I thought it would, and POPLA has ruled against me. I didn't notice the discrepancy until afterwards. I have lodged an appeal, but my impression of POPLA is that it's a chronically under resourced service and a waste of time. What happens now? Will a judgement be made against me automatically? I am convinced that should it go to court I would probably win, but do I get informed that that is now the next step? Cheers.
Yes I did but Parking Eye has an obligation to show POPLA how it dealt with my defence. It did not do so. I'm not too worried, it might set a precedent, POPLA is amateurish. But I wanted to know what the process from Parking Eye will now be. Do they have to write me a letter telling me I lost or can they go straight to court and gave them issue a fine, automatically. Cheers
VoxPops said:
Yes I did but Parking Eye has an obligation to show POPLA how it dealt with my defence. It did not do so. I'm not too worried, it might set a precedent, POPLA is amateurish. But I wanted to know what the process from Parking Eye will now be. Do they have to write me a letter telling me I lost or can they go straight to court and gave them issue a fine, automatically. Cheers
Re-read and see you did. What were the grounds for the appeal? did you use the MSE template?That's ok. No I didn't use the template I didn't know about it.
The signs did not have planning permission (I checked) and there were no signs inbetween where I parked and entering the building from the car park. The people who worked there told me they would tell Parking Eye I had permission to be there, and I told Parking Eye that. PE had history of approaching the building owners who would tell them to scrub a ticket. In this case though they didn't approach the building owner. PE didn't respond to any of this or my online response or my later letter. The writing on the signs was not visible as I entered the car park. POPLA tells me it has no mandate to check the credibility of the submission from PE, it will take it at face value. I did not know the packet from PE did not even have my letter, because I didn't get it until after POPLA got theirs. There was a difference of a few days. I'd be happy to go head to head with PE but I just need to know what happens now. If I send them a letter telling them where they went wrong it'll be ignored or overlooked anyway. Cheers!
The signs did not have planning permission (I checked) and there were no signs inbetween where I parked and entering the building from the car park. The people who worked there told me they would tell Parking Eye I had permission to be there, and I told Parking Eye that. PE had history of approaching the building owners who would tell them to scrub a ticket. In this case though they didn't approach the building owner. PE didn't respond to any of this or my online response or my later letter. The writing on the signs was not visible as I entered the car park. POPLA tells me it has no mandate to check the credibility of the submission from PE, it will take it at face value. I did not know the packet from PE did not even have my letter, because I didn't get it until after POPLA got theirs. There was a difference of a few days. I'd be happy to go head to head with PE but I just need to know what happens now. If I send them a letter telling them where they went wrong it'll be ignored or overlooked anyway. Cheers!
OP, you mention that POPLA says it has no mandate to check the credibility of the evidence from PE. That is correct. It is deciding purely on documentary evidence. You need to have a properly structured bundle to show that theirs is misleading, inaccurate, or both. I suspect the reason you lost may well be that you didn't seek the help of people who know and understand the process and are fully aware of the tricks, nonsense, and sometimes downright lies, that PPCs will resort to.
A POPLA decision is only binding on the PPC not the motorist. You can still have your day in court but that decision will not be PE's not your's. Their next step may be to farm it out to its tame debt collector/solicitor. All that those can do is bombard you with increasingly threatening letters. Only a Court can give a judgement against you.
Before that can happen you must receive a proper Letter before Claim. The next step, if PE are minded to (and it may well be), is off to Court. PE are one of the more litigious PPCs. The amount involved will mean the claim will be allocated to the Small Claims track in the County Court. The hearing should be at the one nearest to where you live but you may need to check and, if not, request it. If you do receive such paperwork don't ignore it otherwise the claimant will win by default. You then run the risk of a CCJ on your record if you don't pay it within one month
https://www.gov.uk/county-court-judgments-ccj-for-...
If/when it gets in front of a judge you will need help to present a properly argued defence. Winging it on your own is risky unless you are familiar with the system. Something else to consider. PE may apply for the case to be heard on the papers (probably not though). If so, you don't have to agree.
http://www.courtroomadvice.co.uk/guide-small-claim...
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-rights/l...
A POPLA decision is only binding on the PPC not the motorist. You can still have your day in court but that decision will not be PE's not your's. Their next step may be to farm it out to its tame debt collector/solicitor. All that those can do is bombard you with increasingly threatening letters. Only a Court can give a judgement against you.
Before that can happen you must receive a proper Letter before Claim. The next step, if PE are minded to (and it may well be), is off to Court. PE are one of the more litigious PPCs. The amount involved will mean the claim will be allocated to the Small Claims track in the County Court. The hearing should be at the one nearest to where you live but you may need to check and, if not, request it. If you do receive such paperwork don't ignore it otherwise the claimant will win by default. You then run the risk of a CCJ on your record if you don't pay it within one month
https://www.gov.uk/county-court-judgments-ccj-for-...
If/when it gets in front of a judge you will need help to present a properly argued defence. Winging it on your own is risky unless you are familiar with the system. Something else to consider. PE may apply for the case to be heard on the papers (probably not though). If so, you don't have to agree.
http://www.courtroomadvice.co.uk/guide-small-claim...
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/law-and-rights/l...
Cheers guys. I can't believe how bad the system is!!! Our worry is the credit file notice and paying money that we don't have to. The wife wants to take them to court to get back the cost of the wasted time. I've asked for a copy of the files they have if I don't hear from them I will follow it up with the commissioner. POPLA is worse than useless its a production line.
Let them serve proceedings, and then defend them. That's where I am at the moment. This dance with POPLA is all just to wear you down. I parked on landowner's car park with their permission. Got three tickets over the months, PE cancelled two but are pursuing the third. Their defence is very poor, and contradictory. Let the judge decide !
catfood12 said:
Let them serve proceedings, and then defend them. That's where I am at the moment. This dance with POPLA is all just to wear you down. I parked on landowner's car park with their permission. Got three tickets over the months, PE cancelled two but are pursuing the third. Their defence is very poor, and contradictory. Let the judge decide !
If you have permission then submit that permission to POPLA and get it cancelled, why go to court?herewego said:
If you have permission then submit that permission to POPLA and get it cancelled, why go to court?
As POPLA ignored the copy of the daily visitors sheet clearly showing me signed in with the correct registration on the correct date the ticket was issued. Banging my head hard against a brick wall would have given me the same outcome, but with using less stamps.catfood12 said:
herewego said:
If you have permission then submit that permission to POPLA and get it cancelled, why go to court?
As POPLA ignored the copy of the daily visitors sheet clearly showing me signed in with the correct registration on the correct date the ticket was issued. Banging my head hard against a brick wall would have given me the same outcome, but with using less stamps.Hol said:
herewego said:
If the people you were visiting said you could park there then ask them to contact PE and get the charge cancelled.
^^ This.PurpleMoonlight said:
Does the fact that there was no panning permission for the signs negate the validity of the legal contract made between the parties via them?
Think so. I got this from another forum and although it's the other end of the country I think it must be true for all areas. It's for signs over a certain size. There is a case for saying that harm should not come from that which is wrong. And the signs needed permission to be there. The signs which hit us were Katherine enough to need planning permission but none was requested. We're working on it..!!https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/planning_co...
catfood12 said:
As POPLA ignored the copy of the daily visitors sheet clearly showing me signed in with the correct registration on the correct date the ticket was issued. Banging my head hard against a brick wall would have given me the same outcome, but with using less stamps.
Us too. They completely ignored our letter explaining it. And they ignored our request for information which my wife submitted online. herewego said:
catfood12 said:
Let them serve proceedings, and then defend them. That's where I am at the moment. This dance with POPLA is all just to wear you down. I parked on landowner's car park with their permission. Got three tickets over the months, PE cancelled two but are pursuing the third. Their defence is very poor, and contradictory. Let the judge decide !
If you have permission then submit that permission to POPLA and get it cancelled, why go to court?VoxPops said:
Because POPLA is useless, it turns the other cheek when it needs to. It's worse than useless, it is complicit in fraud. I asked why it was ok for PE to submit false evidence and I was told POPLA only had to review the evidence given to it. When I told them it was borderline fraud by PE, they shrugged their shoulders!!
There we go. VXP has come to the same conclusion as me, but he also has a good point that they are basically complicit in fraud. I'm spending tomorrow doing my witness statement and getting the bundle of papers to the Court and PE. As I no longer visit the site I had to send a process server there to gather evidence, I'm counter claiming against PE for this too.My initial letter to PE was copied more or less from Surveyor101 on here (I did give him credit on a post, not sure if he saw), and goes along the lines of;
Parking Charge Notice – *************
Thank you for the aforementioned letter, this makes reference to the appeal being referred due to our organisation not providing the drivers details. I fail to see the relevance of ************* is the registered keepers of the vehicle.
I am not ignoring your charge for a purported parking infraction. As this is purely a charge (not a statutory penalty) issued under a purported contract and the driver has not been identified, I require the following information so that I can make an informed decision:
1. Who is the party that contracted with your company for the provision of their services? I require their contact details.
2. What is the full legal identity of the landowner?
3. As you are not the landowner please provide a contemporaneous and unredacted copy of your contract with the landholder that demonstrate that you have their authority to both issue parking charges and litigate in your own name.
4. Is your charge based on damages for breach of contract? Answer yes or no.
5. If the charge is based on damages for breach of contract please provide your justification of this sum.
6. Is your charge based on a contractually agreed sum for the provision of parking? Answer yes or no.
7. If the charge is based on a contractually agreed sum for the provision of parking please provide a valid VAT invoice for this 'service'.
8. Please provide a copy of the signs that purportedly were on site which you contend formed a contract with the driver on that occasion.
If you believe you have a cause of action, send a Letter before Claim within the next 21 days and I will take advice and will respond.
Do not send debt collector letters and do not add any costs or surcharges. I will not respond to those, so to involve another firm would be a failure to mitigate your alleged loss. In any case, the addition of any debt collector 'costs' is not my liability because the POFA 2012 can only potentially hold a registered keeper liable if certain provisions have been met and even then, the 'amount of the parking charge' is the only amount pursuable.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff