Who's the bad driver here?
Discussion
Nothing to do with me, but this is the top story on our local newspaper's website.
"Dashcam footage shows TERRIFYING near miss
DASHCAM footage shows the terrifying moment car was almost driven off the North Devon link road when another motorist carried out a dangerous maneuver.
Uploaded to YouTube on December 17 the video shows a car overtaking with little time to avoid oncoming traffic and forcing another car to move dangerously onto the verge
A spokesman for Devon and Cornwall Police told the Journal: "The driver has been identified and will be interviewed in due course."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sGLVjeTdaM
Am I wrong in thinking that the driver of the Zafira is the one causing the incident by suddenly braking and swerving when he sees the Civic in his mirrors? If he had carried on driving as normal there wouldn't have been any "incident" at all. As far as I can see, the Civic driver took the car swerving onto the verge as an invitation to pass, which he took. I get it quite often when I'm on my motorbike - cars move over to let you through.
"Dashcam footage shows TERRIFYING near miss
DASHCAM footage shows the terrifying moment car was almost driven off the North Devon link road when another motorist carried out a dangerous maneuver.
Uploaded to YouTube on December 17 the video shows a car overtaking with little time to avoid oncoming traffic and forcing another car to move dangerously onto the verge
A spokesman for Devon and Cornwall Police told the Journal: "The driver has been identified and will be interviewed in due course."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sGLVjeTdaM
Am I wrong in thinking that the driver of the Zafira is the one causing the incident by suddenly braking and swerving when he sees the Civic in his mirrors? If he had carried on driving as normal there wouldn't have been any "incident" at all. As far as I can see, the Civic driver took the car swerving onto the verge as an invitation to pass, which he took. I get it quite often when I'm on my motorbike - cars move over to let you through.
Yes, there is something very wrong with that zafira driver...
The Civic driver isn't in the right so to speak but given how the situation played out he had little time to make a judgement call. He overtook into a clear gap and the zafira suddenly closed the gap even though there was no hazard, The Civic could have braked hard which could have risked the camera car rear ending him or he could have done as seen in the video, gone for the gap and got out of there.
The Civic driver isn't in the right so to speak but given how the situation played out he had little time to make a judgement call. He overtook into a clear gap and the zafira suddenly closed the gap even though there was no hazard, The Civic could have braked hard which could have risked the camera car rear ending him or he could have done as seen in the video, gone for the gap and got out of there.
boyse7en said:
Am I wrong in thinking that the driver of the Zafira is the one causing the incident by suddenly braking and swerving when he sees the Civic in his mirrors?
No, but poor judgement and too-aggressive driving by the civic led to the melee. Zafira driver needs a re-test IMO.I think we should ask Digby and Vonhosen.
I am wondering if Mr/Mrs Zafira was the hold-up at the front of a convoy of vehicles.
If the camera car and the Zafira were the only two vehicles being overtaken then the Civic was unnecessarily careless, plus the Zafira driver is obviously an idiot irrespective of that.
But if the Zafira and the camera vehicle were at the front of a convoy directly resulting from the Zafira's lack of speed then the Civic is progressing along a queue of slower vehicles with less than ideal space between them. The specific 'dangerous' moment would not have occurred had the Zafira not reacted, and why would anyone competent react like that?
If only all drivers not wishing to overtake left that magical gap between them and the car in front to permit other drivers that do wish to overtake to do so.
......back to reality.
The Zafira is more of a liability than the Civic based on that video.
I am wondering if Mr/Mrs Zafira was the hold-up at the front of a convoy of vehicles.
If the camera car and the Zafira were the only two vehicles being overtaken then the Civic was unnecessarily careless, plus the Zafira driver is obviously an idiot irrespective of that.
But if the Zafira and the camera vehicle were at the front of a convoy directly resulting from the Zafira's lack of speed then the Civic is progressing along a queue of slower vehicles with less than ideal space between them. The specific 'dangerous' moment would not have occurred had the Zafira not reacted, and why would anyone competent react like that?
If only all drivers not wishing to overtake left that magical gap between them and the car in front to permit other drivers that do wish to overtake to do so.
......back to reality.
The Zafira is more of a liability than the Civic based on that video.
boyse7en said:
As far as I can see, the Civic driver took the car swerving onto the verge as an invitation to pass, which he took.
I'm struggling to see it that way tbh.I think the Zafira driver just panicked and did what you see a lot of people do when it's an emergency vehicle coming up behind them unexpectedly.
DELETED: Comment made by a member who's account has been deleted.
Agreed, and stupid and illegal use of the horn by the dcw, neither him or the zafira were using their mirrors. Having said that I'd have more sympathy for the civic if his pass hadn't been so close (looking at the centre white lint).
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said:boyse7en said:
As far as I can see, the Civic driver took the car swerving onto the verge as an invitation to pass, which he took.
I'm struggling to see it that way tbh.I think the Zafira driver just panicked and did what you see a lot of people do when it's an emergency vehicle coming up behind them unexpectedly.
What was behind the cam car though? I'd have lifted off and created space for the Civic IF possible. Really depends if that was an option for the camera car. We have no clue how many cars the Civic was overtaking.
Zafira was a plonker for braking though!
Cam car was a plonker for using the horn
Civic was doing ok until everyone reacted around him.
Zafira was a plonker for braking though!
Cam car was a plonker for using the horn
Civic was doing ok until everyone reacted around him.
If you have to brake hard to get into an overtaking space then there wasn't room. Simple as. That overtake was never on. So the Civic managed the 'take but only by driving in such a manner as to utterly terrify the driver of the car in front.
Who proceeded to very naturally drive like an idiot. Very understandable though trying to get out of the way so as not to be hit.
So Civic: mentalist.
Car in front: a bit poor, but understandably so.
The cam car might be filled with foul mouthed occupants but they were just keeping a steady speed of the car in front. Can't see that they did anything wrong.
Who proceeded to very naturally drive like an idiot. Very understandable though trying to get out of the way so as not to be hit.
So Civic: mentalist.
Car in front: a bit poor, but understandably so.
The cam car might be filled with foul mouthed occupants but they were just keeping a steady speed of the car in front. Can't see that they did anything wrong.
The behaviour of the zafira driver is very odd- they react both instantly and more than they need to, all things being equal.
I wonder if the Civic had their main beam on or the cam car put theirs on to remonstrate with the Civic driver?
Given the sudden braking and positioning of the Zafira, I'm not surprised the Civic driver did what they did, perhaps putting themselves in a silly position where they chose to make a snap decision.
Possibly 3 bad pieces of driving coinciding with this one.
I wonder if the Civic had their main beam on or the cam car put theirs on to remonstrate with the Civic driver?
Given the sudden braking and positioning of the Zafira, I'm not surprised the Civic driver did what they did, perhaps putting themselves in a silly position where they chose to make a snap decision.
Possibly 3 bad pieces of driving coinciding with this one.
The gap was never there to overtake into. Max 1.5 second gap between zafira and camera car (and I'm being generous as it's hard to judge in 2d).
Civic obviously scared the st out of zafira driver who, judging by his reaction, was half asleep.
Hopefully the civic driver will learn not to overtake into gaps that aren't big enough. And hopefully the zafira driver will learn to pay a bit more attention to what's going on behind/around him.
Civic obviously scared the s
t out of zafira driver who, judging by his reaction, was half asleep.Hopefully the civic driver will learn not to overtake into gaps that aren't big enough. And hopefully the zafira driver will learn to pay a bit more attention to what's going on behind/around him.
Looked like a fairly normal overtake to me, until the Zafira braked heavily which obviously the Civic driver wasn't expecting, so he had to brake hard too. It certainly didn't really look like the Civic was being driven madly, just getting past the camera car as fast as possible which seems more sensible than trying to overtake at spot on 60mph or whatever and being on the other side of the road for longer.
If I'd been driving the camera car I think my blame would rest with the Zafira driver for seemingly braking hard for no reason, the Civic driver just got caught out with what would normally have been a safe overtake. In a perfect world I suppose the Civic driver should have anticipated that the Zafira might slow and only passed if there was a much larger gap, but in real life overtaking cars in a queue / row often requires getting past quickly and fitting into quite small gaps that the traffic leaves (or doesn't) , but up until the point where he's pulling back into the gap the space available was quite a lot larger.
The 2nd overtake was probably just fueled by some anger at what seems to be a silly move by the Zafira.
If I'd been driving the camera car I think my blame would rest with the Zafira driver for seemingly braking hard for no reason, the Civic driver just got caught out with what would normally have been a safe overtake. In a perfect world I suppose the Civic driver should have anticipated that the Zafira might slow and only passed if there was a much larger gap, but in real life overtaking cars in a queue / row often requires getting past quickly and fitting into quite small gaps that the traffic leaves (or doesn't) , but up until the point where he's pulling back into the gap the space available was quite a lot larger.
The 2nd overtake was probably just fueled by some anger at what seems to be a silly move by the Zafira.
JimSuperSix said:
Looked like a fairly normal overtake to me, until the Zafira braked heavily which obviously the Civic driver wasn't expecting, so he had to brake hard too. It certainly didn't really look like the Civic was being driven madly, just getting past the camera car as fast as possible which seems more sensible than trying to overtake at spot on 60mph or whatever and being on the other side of the road for longer.
If I'd been driving the camera car I think my blame would rest with the Zafira driver for seemingly braking hard for no reason, the Civic driver just got caught out with what would normally have been a safe overtake. In a perfect world I suppose the Civic driver should have anticipated that the Zafira might slow and only passed if there was a much larger gap, but in real life overtaking cars in a queue / row often requires getting past quickly and fitting into quite small gaps that the traffic leaves (or doesn't) , but up until the point where he's pulling back into the gap the space available was quite a lot larger.
The 2nd overtake was probably just fueled by some anger at what seems to be a silly move by the Zafira.
Yes, after the actions of the Zafira the Civic was hardly likely not to pass the Zafira immediately.If I'd been driving the camera car I think my blame would rest with the Zafira driver for seemingly braking hard for no reason, the Civic driver just got caught out with what would normally have been a safe overtake. In a perfect world I suppose the Civic driver should have anticipated that the Zafira might slow and only passed if there was a much larger gap, but in real life overtaking cars in a queue / row often requires getting past quickly and fitting into quite small gaps that the traffic leaves (or doesn't) , but up until the point where he's pulling back into the gap the space available was quite a lot larger.
The 2nd overtake was probably just fueled by some anger at what seems to be a silly move by the Zafira.
Whatever anyone cares to say about the Civic, how anyone can justify the actions of the Zafira is beyond me.
boyse7en said:
"Dashcam footage shows TERRIFYING near miss
DASHCAM footage shows the terrifying moment car was almost driven off the North Devon link road when another motorist carried out a dangerous maneuver.
Uploaded to YouTube on December 17 the video shows a car overtaking with little time to avoid oncoming traffic and forcing another car to move dangerously onto the verge
A spokesman for Devon and Cornwall Police told the Journal: "The driver has been identified and will be interviewed in due course."
Typical journalistic hyperbole in the headline: the obligatory big capital letters to excite the readers. Then the word repeated again in the body of the text for added effect. DASHCAM footage shows the terrifying moment car was almost driven off the North Devon link road when another motorist carried out a dangerous maneuver.
Uploaded to YouTube on December 17 the video shows a car overtaking with little time to avoid oncoming traffic and forcing another car to move dangerously onto the verge
A spokesman for Devon and Cornwall Police told the Journal: "The driver has been identified and will be interviewed in due course."
boyse7en said:
Am I wrong in thinking that the driver of the Zafira is the one causing the incident by suddenly braking and swerving when he sees the Civic in his mirrors? If he had carried on driving as normal there wouldn't have been any "incident" at all.
^^This^^The Civic driver's overtake was risky, going for a gap that was too small. However the Zafira driver made the situation far worse by braking. It was totally unneessary as the car in front is a long way off. If you watch frame by frame you will see that the dive towards the verge happens after the initial braking manoeuvre - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_sGLVjeTdaM
I strongly suspect that was because the Zafira driver though he/she was going to be rear ended. Well if he/she hadn't braked and markedly reduced the available space for the Civic there would have been no need to swerve and little or no drama.
If the police feel interviwing the Civic driver is warranted (and I agree with that) then the Zafira driver needs hauling in too and given an even bigger slap. What started as a risky manoeuvre by one driver was compounded to an even greater degree by the sheer lunacy of the other.
The Zafira and the car with the camera in it are doing between 53 and 56 in a 60 limit. If the limit is NSL at that point of course.
The Civic overtakes at a speed of 70-72mph and has to brake rapidly down to the speeds of the front car and the car with the camera in it because there is a vehice approaching in the other direction preventing the Civic making it safely into the longer gap in front of the Zafira.
Perhaps the car in front has a slightly nervous driver and that driver has made a bit of a panic braking action, maybe because of the shock of someone rushing up to their rear.
As the two vehicles other than the Civic are driving at a speed that is reasonably close to the speed limit why would they need to be watching out for someone coming throuh at a speed that was 10-12mph above the speed limit? Is it reasonable to expect drivers adhering to traffic regulations to have to also observe those who want to treat the road as a track?
Hardly surprising that the driver in the white Zafira has reacted to the overtake that is unecessary and unlawful.
Had the driver of the vehicle with the camera been a traffic officer I am sure the driver of the Civic would have been on the wrong end of some law enforcement...or the right end depending on your point of view.
Had the Zafira driver crashed as a result of the rapid approach of the Civic would the driver of the Civic have been responsible for causing the crash?
So who's the bad driver? As you now know more of the circumstances you can have a more informed debate.
For me, it's the knob in the Civic.
The Civic overtakes at a speed of 70-72mph and has to brake rapidly down to the speeds of the front car and the car with the camera in it because there is a vehice approaching in the other direction preventing the Civic making it safely into the longer gap in front of the Zafira.
Perhaps the car in front has a slightly nervous driver and that driver has made a bit of a panic braking action, maybe because of the shock of someone rushing up to their rear.
As the two vehicles other than the Civic are driving at a speed that is reasonably close to the speed limit why would they need to be watching out for someone coming throuh at a speed that was 10-12mph above the speed limit? Is it reasonable to expect drivers adhering to traffic regulations to have to also observe those who want to treat the road as a track?
Hardly surprising that the driver in the white Zafira has reacted to the overtake that is unecessary and unlawful.
Had the driver of the vehicle with the camera been a traffic officer I am sure the driver of the Civic would have been on the wrong end of some law enforcement...or the right end depending on your point of view.
Had the Zafira driver crashed as a result of the rapid approach of the Civic would the driver of the Civic have been responsible for causing the crash?
So who's the bad driver? As you now know more of the circumstances you can have a more informed debate.
For me, it's the knob in the Civic.
Edited by tapereel on Wednesday 21st December 21:31
Don said:
If you have to brake hard to get into an overtaking space then there wasn't room. Simple as. That overtake was never on. So the Civic managed the 'take but only by driving in such a manner as to utterly terrify the driver of the car in front.
Who proceeded to very naturally drive like an idiot. Very understandable though trying to get out of the way so as not to be hit.
So Civic: mentalist.
Car in front: a bit poor, but understandably so.
The cam car might be filled with foul mouthed occupants but they were just keeping a steady speed of the car in front. Can't see that they did anything wrong.
Between the Cam car and the zafira there is roughly 2-3 second gap.Who proceeded to very naturally drive like an idiot. Very understandable though trying to get out of the way so as not to be hit.
So Civic: mentalist.
Car in front: a bit poor, but understandably so.
The cam car might be filled with foul mouthed occupants but they were just keeping a steady speed of the car in front. Can't see that they did anything wrong.
Id have said that a majority, inc me, having overtaking the cam car would also pull into said gap given the oncoming traffic and given that youve just built up some potentially excessive speed in overtaking 1+ cars, youll need to scrub it off which he did as soon as he come back in, hence hitting the brakes.
If zafira dude carried on normally, the CTR would have ended up about a cars length behind him and be looking to leap frog when the traffic is clear, given that the CTR carried out the maneuver when the road was clear. However, Zafira braked way too hard causing the CTR to almost rear end him. If you watch the video again, youll notice that the Zaf only braked hard once the CTR was tucked back in.
Or are people suggesting that other people shouldnt leap frog when its safe and legal?
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