Brake Lights out ...
Discussion
Chaps,
On Friday, I was driving behind a car whose brake lights were duff. They didn't work at all, even when the car was obviously braking.
Had I hit it, who would have been liable? I am guessing the other chap, on account of the fact that his car was not in roadworthy condition, but how would this have been proved? I would have hit the back of the car in question, and claimed the brakelights didn't work. If the lights were not smashed in the crash, the car would have had to be examined then and there (or impounded) to prove they weren't working. And I bet this wouldn't have happened. And what if the lights had been smashed in the crash? Any evidence of them not working would have been destroyed, so no case to prove.
Anyone any experience of this?
Oli.
On Friday, I was driving behind a car whose brake lights were duff. They didn't work at all, even when the car was obviously braking.
Had I hit it, who would have been liable? I am guessing the other chap, on account of the fact that his car was not in roadworthy condition, but how would this have been proved? I would have hit the back of the car in question, and claimed the brakelights didn't work. If the lights were not smashed in the crash, the car would have had to be examined then and there (or impounded) to prove they weren't working. And I bet this wouldn't have happened. And what if the lights had been smashed in the crash? Any evidence of them not working would have been destroyed, so no case to prove.
Anyone any experience of this?
Oli.
Mr Whippy said:... I did just this ... (and didn't prevent some chav prat from pushing infront of me - rather they were behind such a vehicle!
Never had a crash like that (touch wood), but if I knew the brake lights were out on car infront and had no alternative route, I'd sit a good 200 yards back or overtake!
Mr Whippy said:My sentiments exactly. The only charitable thought I managed was that perhaps it was a fuse blown rather than both bulbs.
Book should be thrown at such people anyway. One is maybe ok, but BOTH? Just waiting to be rammed!
Oli.
I seem to remember there being a way to test if the bulbs were working, even if they are smashed. Something to do with seeing and analysing the way the filament has burnt out. If they were on when they smashed they would have burnt out because of the wrong gas mixture around the filament. If they were alredy burnt out then the filament would be burnt in a different way. Or something!
Ben
Ben
ywouldi said:Sounds intelligent. But if we had a crash, and the lights were duff, how would this be proved? Their car would need to be taken for this testing, and I seriously doubt whether this would happen for a minor (but costly) crash.
I seem to remember there being a way to test if the bulbs were working, even if they are smashed. Something to do with seeing and analysing the way the filament has burnt out. If they were on when they smashed they would have burnt out because of the wrong gas mixture around the filament. If they were alredy burnt out then the filament would be burnt in a different way. Or something!
Ben
Davel - I am sure you are right. However, I am also sure you shouldn't be. If you see what I mean.
Oli.
zcacogp said:There was a (civil) case some years ago. IIRC, a cyclist was knocked off his bike by a car at night and killed. The driver insisted that the bike did not display a red rear light. Analysis of the filament (this was in the days before LEDs) showed that it had burned out. However, this could have happened prior to the accident. What was conclusive was that whilst the reflector had traces of burnt filament deposited on it, the inside of the broken lens did not. The Expert Witness held that the lens glass broke first, then the bulb glass. The filament burned out and deposited traces on the reflector, but as the lens glass had already fallen out, there were no traces on the broken pieces. The court found against the motorist and awarded substantial damages to the cyclist's widow.
I seem to remember there being a way to test if the bulbs were working, even if they are smashed. Something to do with seeing and analysing the way the filament has burnt out. If they were on when they smashed they would have burnt out because of the wrong gas mixture around the filament. If they were alredy burnt out then the filament would be burnt in a different way. Or something!
Ben
Sounds intelligent. But if we had a crash, and the lights were duff, how would this be proved? Their car would need to be taken for this testing, and I seriously doubt whether this would happen for a minor (but costly) crash.
Davel - I am sure you are right. However, I am also sure you shouldn't be. If you see what I mean.
Oli.
Streaky
ywouldi said:
I seem to remember there being a way to test if the bulbs were working, even if they are smashed. Something to do with seeing and analysing the way the filament has burnt out. If they were on when they smashed they would have burnt out because of the wrong gas mixture around the filament. If they were alredy burnt out then the filament would be burnt in a different way. Or something!
I read a posting on a newsgroup about an accident involving a car reversing into another car. The driver claimed the other person ran into them, and the driver not at fault called the police. He demanded that the officer remove the reversing light bulbs and had them collected from the police for indepedent analysis. The expert concluded that the bulbs were lit when they broke and the driver at fault had to pay up.
Obviously this couldn't happen now, since many forces refuse to attend damage-only accidents.
Gareth
Before hanging anyone with all their brake lights out it might be worth noting that this is often due to a single point failure i.e. the brake light switch which may have occured during their current journey. I have had this happen on two cars one with a hydraulic sender and one with a simple switch. Why not try and pull alongside at the next set of lights and politely let them know.
In my opinion, you'd have been to blame as you should always be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear.
However, if the vehicle in front was found to have defective brake lights, it's unlikely that a prosecution would be brought against you and an insurance payout would potentially be 50/50.
However, if the vehicle in front was found to have defective brake lights, it's unlikely that a prosecution would be brought against you and an insurance payout would potentially be 50/50.
rustybin said:
Before hanging anyone with all their brake lights out it might be worth noting that this is often due to a single point failure i.e. the brake light switch which may have occured during their current journey. I have had this happen on two cars one with a hydraulic sender and one with a simple switch. Why not try and pull alongside at the next set of lights and politely let them know.
Chaps, thanks for your responses. The advice "Hang well back" is probably the best there is ....
RustyBin - I know for sure that even on my old Mk1 Golf (1982), there were two switches to activate the brake lights. In the case of a single failiure, the other one would continue to work.
Oli.
zcacogp said:I have had them go on a Metro ('89 ish), a 164 Alfa (94) and a Citroen BX (Late 80's). All resulted in a black out.
Before hanging anyone with all their brake lights out it might be worth noting that this is often due to a single point failure i.e. the brake light switch which may have occured during their current journey. I have had this happen on two cars one with a hydraulic sender and one with a simple switch. Why not try and pull alongside at the next set of lights and politely let them know.
Chaps, thanks for your responses. The advice "Hang well back" is probably the best there is ....
RustyBin - I know for sure that even on my old Mk1 Golf (1982), there were two switches to activate the brake lights. In the case of a single failiure, the other one would continue to work.
Oli.
Thinking about it, I am starting to wonder whether, having broken three, I am doing something wrong?
Streetcop said:
In my opinion, you'd have been to blame as you should always be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear.
However, if the vehicle in front was found to have defective brake lights, it's unlikely that a prosecution would be brought against you and an insurance payout would potentially be 50/50.
On my brother in laws beat (somewhere in North London) they have apparently come up against groups of people who will cram 5 into a car, disconnect brake lights and wait to be rear ended. They then claim for whiplash.
bga said:Somewhat reminiscent of the (probably apocryphal) tale of the New York bus that hit another vehicle just as it was leaving the depot heading for its first pick-up. By the time New York's finest arrived there were 15 people on the bus claiming to have pains in their necks
In my opinion, you'd have been to blame as you should always be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear.
However, if the vehicle in front was found to have defective brake lights, it's unlikely that a prosecution would be brought against you and an insurance payout would potentially be 50/50.
On my brother in laws beat (somewhere in North London) they have apparently come up against groups of people who will cram 5 into a car, disconnect brake lights and wait to be rear ended. They then claim for whiplash.
- Streakyzcacogp said:
Before hanging anyone with all their brake lights out it might be worth noting that this is often due to a single point failure i.e. the brake light switch which may have occured during their current journey. I have had this happen on two cars one with a hydraulic sender and one with a simple switch. Why not try and pull alongside at the next set of lights and politely let them know.
Chaps, thanks for your responses. The advice "Hang well back" is probably the best there is ....
RustyBin - I know for sure that even on my old Mk1 Golf (1982), there were two switches to activate the brake lights. In the case of a single failiure, the other one would continue to work.
Oli.
I had a 205GTi that had a dodgy switch by the brake pedal - the result was neither brake light working.
I had a nice 4mph dink into the back of a clapped out cavalier few years back. (Crumple zone takes a surprising amount of crumple even at that speed!!!) It was pulling onto an A road via a slip, the road was clear but he was one of those 'stop at a give way no matter what' idiots. Anyway, he effectively stops in the middle of an A road while I'm looking over my shoulder for the blind spot and 'dink'
He had no brake lights so I called the BIB's. Once there they told me that a pedestrian doesn't have break lights and I'd have surely stopped for them so get lost or I'd get done for careless driving….. thanks lads.
He had no brake lights so I called the BIB's. Once there they told me that a pedestrian doesn't have break lights and I'd have surely stopped for them so get lost or I'd get done for careless driving….. thanks lads.
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