Simple "Handsfree" question... I hope
Discussion
I did try googling this, but most of the threads get massively derailed and go on for 14 pages, I just wondered if someone knew a simple answer...
I have my phone in a holder on the vent in my car. I can use the car built in "one touch dial" (three touches in reality), or I can hold the "Siri" button on my phone, the latter is usually easier.
Sometimes the voice command fails however, resulting in several more clicks on the phone. The whole time the mobile phone is in the holder. It's no different to pushing the huge array of buttons on my dash, but it is a mobile phone.
Once I start pushing buttons however, I could just as easily be sending a text, or even on Facebook.
So when a mobile phone is in it's fixed holder, at what point does it become illegal to use?
I have my phone in a holder on the vent in my car. I can use the car built in "one touch dial" (three touches in reality), or I can hold the "Siri" button on my phone, the latter is usually easier.
Sometimes the voice command fails however, resulting in several more clicks on the phone. The whole time the mobile phone is in the holder. It's no different to pushing the huge array of buttons on my dash, but it is a mobile phone.
Once I start pushing buttons however, I could just as easily be sending a text, or even on Facebook.
So when a mobile phone is in it's fixed holder, at what point does it become illegal to use?
Prof Prolapse said:
I did try googling this, but most of the threads get massively derailed and go on for 14 pages, I just wondered if someone knew a simple answer...
I have my phone in a holder on the vent in my car. I can use the car built in "one touch dial" (three touches in reality), or I can hold the "Siri" button on my phone, the latter is usually easier.
Sometimes the voice command fails however, resulting in several more clicks on the phone. The whole time the mobile phone is in the holder. It's no different to pushing the huge array of buttons on my dash, but it is a mobile phone.
Once I start pushing buttons however, I could just as easily be sending a text, or even on Facebook.
So when a mobile phone is in it's fixed holder, at what point does it become illegal to use?
This highlights the idiocy of the rules, as you can do what you like in your scenario. It would fall under 'due care and attention' (or whatever else it's called) IF you are seen and they feel they can act on it, in than your standard of driving is affected to justify it. So at the lights you can send pictures of your dinner to whomever you like. And on the move if your driving remains acceptable.I have my phone in a holder on the vent in my car. I can use the car built in "one touch dial" (three touches in reality), or I can hold the "Siri" button on my phone, the latter is usually easier.
Sometimes the voice command fails however, resulting in several more clicks on the phone. The whole time the mobile phone is in the holder. It's no different to pushing the huge array of buttons on my dash, but it is a mobile phone.
Once I start pushing buttons however, I could just as easily be sending a text, or even on Facebook.
So when a mobile phone is in it's fixed holder, at what point does it become illegal to use?
cmaguire said:
This highlights the idiocy of the rules, as you can do what you like in your scenario. It would fall under 'due care and attention' (or whatever else it's called) IF you are seen and they feel they can act on it, in than your standard of driving is affected to justify it. So at the lights you can send pictures of your dinner to whomever you like. And on the move if your driving remains acceptable.
That was my understanding but I didn't want to load the question...I'm not sure it's idiocy though. If the law steps in only when my driving falls below the acceptable standard, regardless of what I'm doing, as there's no obvious distinction between fixed buttons on a phone or on my dashboard, that seems a fairly sensible approach?
I expect a high proportion of the vehicles that I come across that drift partially into my lane as I approach are mucking around with dash-mounted satnav or phones. Something highly unlikely to happen if a driver is holding a phone to their ear for a traditional call.
The real problem here is the screen-based crap (social media, satnav and the touchscreen controls in modern vehicles that should never have been sanctioned) that requires visual concentration to use.
The real problem here is the screen-based crap (social media, satnav and the touchscreen controls in modern vehicles that should never have been sanctioned) that requires visual concentration to use.
If you think about it, with one of the pre-touchscreen phones it was possible to make calls without even looking at the phone. You could feel the buttons.
Touchscreens are the real problem.
All the vehicles I own I can pretty much change heating or cd's etc by feel.
How on earth did these in-car touchscreens ever get the go-ahead (they should be voice-control only on the move)?
Touchscreens are the real problem.
All the vehicles I own I can pretty much change heating or cd's etc by feel.
How on earth did these in-car touchscreens ever get the go-ahead (they should be voice-control only on the move)?
Prof Prolapse said:
That was my understanding but I didn't want to load the question...
I'm not sure it's idiocy though. If the law steps in only when my driving falls below the acceptable standard, regardless of what I'm doing, as there's no obvious distinction between fixed buttons on a phone or on my dashboard, that seems a fairly sensible approach?
It is a fairly sensible approach, but this is the UK. We don't do sensible approaches here anymore. It's propaganda led mass hysteria or nothing I'm afraid. I'm not sure it's idiocy though. If the law steps in only when my driving falls below the acceptable standard, regardless of what I'm doing, as there's no obvious distinction between fixed buttons on a phone or on my dashboard, that seems a fairly sensible approach?
caelite said:
It is a fairly sensible approach, but this is the UK. We don't do sensible approaches here anymore. It's propaganda led mass hysteria or nothing I'm afraid.
If they're falling back on Due Care and Attention then why the need for specific highlighting re. hand-held phones? The reference to 'Dangerous Dogs Act Mk 2' was apt. The phone stuff is a bodge job.
Prof Prolapse said:
I'm not sure it's idiocy though. If the law steps in only when my driving falls below the acceptable standard, regardless of what I'm doing, as there's no obvious distinction between fixed buttons on a phone or on my dashboard, that seems a fairly sensible approach?
Yes. The lawmakers make the assumption that the police act sensibly and with intelligence and reason.The distinction between driving while using a hand-held phone and not doing so ought to be obvious, but there has to be a line drawn somewhere between what is legal and what isn't, in order to make the law enforceable at all.
Doing something like picking up your phone to see the time while stopped at the lights, or making a quick call to tell your boss you'll be late while standing in a traffic jam, while technically illegal, ought not to attract the attention of the police, as long as your driving isn't affected in any way.
Prosecuting someone for doing something like that is not in the interests of society, and does not serve justice.
Unfortunately, we are seeing more and more of the phenomenon of 'policing by numbers', the increasing tendency of some of the police to go after easy targets - often at the expense of dispensing justice.
This enforcement of the limits and definitions rather than enforcing the law, might serve to meet targets and keep attorneys rich, but it does nothing for justice.
4040vision said:
Seems like the use you have described is not "hands-free" as you are using your hands.
Don't use your hand-held mobile telephone while driving. SIMPLE.
He is describing hands-free useDon't use your hand-held mobile telephone while driving. SIMPLE.
The law said:
It’s illegal to use your phone while driving or riding a motorcycle unless you have hands-free access, such as:
- a bluetooth headset
- voice command
- a dashboard holder
Prof Prolapse said:
I did try googling this, but most of the threads get massively derailed and go on for 14 pages, I just wondered if someone knew a simple answer...
I have my phone in a holder on the vent in my car. I can use the car built in "one touch dial" (three touches in reality), or I can hold the "Siri" button on my phone, the latter is usually easier.
Sometimes the voice command fails however, resulting in several more clicks on the phone. The whole time the mobile phone is in the holder. It's no different to pushing the huge array of buttons on my dash, but it is a mobile phone.
Once I start pushing buttons however, I could just as easily be sending a text, or even on Facebook.
So when a mobile phone is in it's fixed holder, at what point does it become illegal to use?
Slightly off topic, but no need to hold Siri button, just say Hey Siri and it wakes up!I have my phone in a holder on the vent in my car. I can use the car built in "one touch dial" (three touches in reality), or I can hold the "Siri" button on my phone, the latter is usually easier.
Sometimes the voice command fails however, resulting in several more clicks on the phone. The whole time the mobile phone is in the holder. It's no different to pushing the huge array of buttons on my dash, but it is a mobile phone.
Once I start pushing buttons however, I could just as easily be sending a text, or even on Facebook.
So when a mobile phone is in it's fixed holder, at what point does it become illegal to use?
4040vision said:
Seems like the use you have described is not "hands-free" as you are using your hands.
Don't use your hand-held mobile telephone while driving. SIMPLE.
If you "don't read so good", or like to rely on your own fictitious definitions rather than the common or legal usage of words, just for fun, perhaps it does sound like that. Don't use your hand-held mobile telephone while driving. SIMPLE.
I use a mobile phone, securely fixed in position, which is routed through my car audio system, in a safe and legal manner. As I have done since it became a legal obligation to do so. I even pull over to adjust the sat nav, and like to think I'm quite a conscientious driver.
If you still occupy some soapbox after that clarification, you must be positively incensed knowing I did use my phone whilst driving in the UK before it was illegal, and sometimes on holiday, still use my mobile whilst driving in countries where it is not illegal to do so. Scandalous!
Prof Prolapse said:
cb1965 said:
Slightly off topic, but no need to hold Siri button, just say Hey Siri and it wakes up!
Doesn't work well on my ageing 5s, road noise perhaps?The work phone also lacks anything so clever, being a primitive "Vodafone Own Brand" effort.
On the radio news today even using 'hands free' can land you in jail!
http://www.andoveradvertiser.co.uk/news/15192606.L...
Saleen836 said:
Prof Prolapse said:
cb1965 said:
Slightly off topic, but no need to hold Siri button, just say Hey Siri and it wakes up!
Doesn't work well on my ageing 5s, road noise perhaps?The work phone also lacks anything so clever, being a primitive "Vodafone Own Brand" effort.
On the radio news today even using 'hands free' can land you in jail!
http://www.andoveradvertiser.co.uk/news/15192606.L...
No he was sent to jail for death by dangerous driving, even the article mentions how he was using the phone was legal, but letting himself get distracted by the phone call, causing him lose concentration and crash into two stationary vehicles.
I assume the charges would have been the same if he had dropped a lit cigarette, and got distracted and killed the man.
I assume the charges would have been the same if he was reading a book, and got distracted and killed the man.
I assume the charges would have been the same if he had been eating a meatball sub and got sauce everywhere distracting him and then killed the man.
Until they make it so, using a phone handsfree is fully legal and if you remain in full control of the vehicle whilst making a hands free call, perfectly safe as well, which is the same as two of my scenarios - no one should read a book whilst driving - I know I can't I would be sick.
I assume the charges would have been the same if he had dropped a lit cigarette, and got distracted and killed the man.
I assume the charges would have been the same if he was reading a book, and got distracted and killed the man.
I assume the charges would have been the same if he had been eating a meatball sub and got sauce everywhere distracting him and then killed the man.
Until they make it so, using a phone handsfree is fully legal and if you remain in full control of the vehicle whilst making a hands free call, perfectly safe as well, which is the same as two of my scenarios - no one should read a book whilst driving - I know I can't I would be sick.
;)
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