Speeding For An Ambulance...
Discussion
Just wondering what you guys think of this. I have already resolved this situation in a way that i didn't want to but thought I'd ask all the same as a case for a friendly or maybe even hostile PH conversation depending on people's views... i am sure there's going to be the usual "the limit is there for a reason" or "the limit is the limit" statements.
Picture this, you're on an A road, it's approx 6pm. Rush hour is out of the way and there's not many cars around. You come to some temporary road works (obviously there were many, many road workers in action. This is a joke BTW), the type restricting your speed to 50mph and there's a couple mile stretch of cones seperating each of the lanes on the dual carriage way (left side for taking the oncoming turn off and staying on the A road, right side for A road only)
You've taken the left lane, there's not any "Sunday drivers" going 40 through the road works so sensible thing to do (i think anyway) about a half mile into the coned off section there's an ambulance coming behind you, in your lane, blues and twos flashing and beeping and coming up very fast.
What do you do? I'll tell you what i done, without thinking for a second about what the consequences might be to me, i speed up to 60mph.
All i could think the whole way through the rest of the road works is "what if that's one of my family they have in the back trying to save" "what if that is a loved one they're on the way too trying to save" etc etc
I get through the road works, ambulance driver overtakes with a pleasant nod and a wave by the passenger (i guess as a thank you for helping them on their way) and i get my partner to note down the time and the reg number of the ambulance for future reference.
Lo and behold a fortnight later i get a letter through the door. NIP for speeding through temporary road works. Give us a tonne, here's three points to your licence. Have a nice day.
I argued the toss over the phone to many people about my actions, even giving the ambulance reg to all of them so they could see that i want lying to them and the only reaction i got was to take the fine and points and forget about it, I'd probably be worse off taking it to court.
Extremely long story cut slighty shorter that is what i done in the end. How anybody couldn't give any sympathy what so ever to the fact i could have potentially helped somebody in need made me feel disgusted in the 'system'
Curious if anybody else had faced a similar issue and how they dealt with it.
Thanks for reading.
Picture this, you're on an A road, it's approx 6pm. Rush hour is out of the way and there's not many cars around. You come to some temporary road works (obviously there were many, many road workers in action. This is a joke BTW), the type restricting your speed to 50mph and there's a couple mile stretch of cones seperating each of the lanes on the dual carriage way (left side for taking the oncoming turn off and staying on the A road, right side for A road only)
You've taken the left lane, there's not any "Sunday drivers" going 40 through the road works so sensible thing to do (i think anyway) about a half mile into the coned off section there's an ambulance coming behind you, in your lane, blues and twos flashing and beeping and coming up very fast.
What do you do? I'll tell you what i done, without thinking for a second about what the consequences might be to me, i speed up to 60mph.
All i could think the whole way through the rest of the road works is "what if that's one of my family they have in the back trying to save" "what if that is a loved one they're on the way too trying to save" etc etc
I get through the road works, ambulance driver overtakes with a pleasant nod and a wave by the passenger (i guess as a thank you for helping them on their way) and i get my partner to note down the time and the reg number of the ambulance for future reference.
Lo and behold a fortnight later i get a letter through the door. NIP for speeding through temporary road works. Give us a tonne, here's three points to your licence. Have a nice day.
I argued the toss over the phone to many people about my actions, even giving the ambulance reg to all of them so they could see that i want lying to them and the only reaction i got was to take the fine and points and forget about it, I'd probably be worse off taking it to court.
Extremely long story cut slighty shorter that is what i done in the end. How anybody couldn't give any sympathy what so ever to the fact i could have potentially helped somebody in need made me feel disgusted in the 'system'
Curious if anybody else had faced a similar issue and how they dealt with it.
Thanks for reading.
In this scenario the Ambulance drivers are in the wrong. They should not be encouraging you to break the law. They should maintain a safe distance, and turn at least the siren off, if not the lights.
Whether I would have sped up I think would depend on whether there were speed camera's in the roadworks. I would be reluctant to gain an almost certain ticket, emergency or not.
Whether I would have sped up I think would depend on whether there were speed camera's in the roadworks. I would be reluctant to gain an almost certain ticket, emergency or not.
jsims1 said:
it's approx 6pm. Rush hour is out of the way and there's not many cars around.
That's already got my "sceptical" sensors turned up to 11...jsims1 said:
You come to some temporary road works ... restricting your speed to 50mph and there's a couple mile stretch of cones seperating each of the lanes on the dual carriage way (left side for taking the oncoming turn off and staying on the A road, right side for A road only)
...i speed up to 60mph.
Congratulations, you saved them twelve whole seconds for each full mile they were behind you through the roadworks....i speed up to 60mph.
Rule 219...same problem for red lights and EV's. Put simply anything you do to "aid" them if it breaks the law is illegal.
What you then fall on is whether the area in question has any "sense" to stop the NIP or whether you face them in court against a JP justifying it with the EV proof...but how many people are willing to go that far with additional stress and costs (more so if they do not win).
In regards to EV drivers they should have a level of understanding and training not to "bully" other road users into breaking the law.
In this situation i would have just continued at the same speed and course moving over when possible, and equally i would have waited (and have done so) at red lights.
Unfortunately in many cases morals do not come into this. The previous recent red light thread highlighted many sides to this debate irrespective of particular situation with EV's. What makes this even more difficult is different regions handle this "type" of situation differently and equally some of it falls down on the type of JP you get if it goes that far.
Simple answer do all you legally can to assist them without breaking the law. Then you know you are 100% clear.
What you then fall on is whether the area in question has any "sense" to stop the NIP or whether you face them in court against a JP justifying it with the EV proof...but how many people are willing to go that far with additional stress and costs (more so if they do not win).
In regards to EV drivers they should have a level of understanding and training not to "bully" other road users into breaking the law.
In this situation i would have just continued at the same speed and course moving over when possible, and equally i would have waited (and have done so) at red lights.
Unfortunately in many cases morals do not come into this. The previous recent red light thread highlighted many sides to this debate irrespective of particular situation with EV's. What makes this even more difficult is different regions handle this "type" of situation differently and equally some of it falls down on the type of JP you get if it goes that far.
Simple answer do all you legally can to assist them without breaking the law. Then you know you are 100% clear.
Edited by Ninja59 on Monday 1st May 18:53
TooMany2cvs said:
That's already got my "sceptical" sensors turned up to 11...
Congratulations, you saved them twelve whole seconds for each full mile they were behind you through the roadworks.
I guess i want ready for this to turn into a topic of conversation for Mythbusters, likewise i didn't have my Amazon Echo to hand either to ask it how many seconds it would potentially save the ambulanceCongratulations, you saved them twelve whole seconds for each full mile they were behind you through the roadworks.
Ninja59 said:
Rule 219...same problem for red lights and EV's. Put simply anything you do to "aid" them if it breaks the law is illegal.
What you then fall on is whether the area in question has any "sense" to stop the NIP or whether you face them in court against a JP justifying it with the EV proof...but how many people are willing to go that far with additional stress and costs (more so if they do not win).
In regards to EV drivers they should have a level of understanding and training not to "bully" other road users into breaking the law.
In this situation i would have just continued at the same speed and course moving over when possible, and equally i would have waited (and have done so) at red lights.
Unfortunately in many cases morals do not come into this. The previous recent red light thread highlighted many sides to this debate irrespective of particular situation with EV's. What makes this even more difficult is different regions handle this "type" of situation differently and equally some of it falls down on the type of JP you get if it goes that far.
Simple answer do all you legally can to assist them without breaking the law. Then you know you are 100% clear.
Your last paragraph i think sums this situation up to a T. I just didn't know what to do in the time i had and done what i thought was the ethical thing to doWhat you then fall on is whether the area in question has any "sense" to stop the NIP or whether you face them in court against a JP justifying it with the EV proof...but how many people are willing to go that far with additional stress and costs (more so if they do not win).
In regards to EV drivers they should have a level of understanding and training not to "bully" other road users into breaking the law.
In this situation i would have just continued at the same speed and course moving over when possible, and equally i would have waited (and have done so) at red lights.
Unfortunately in many cases morals do not come into this. The previous recent red light thread highlighted many sides to this debate irrespective of particular situation with EV's. What makes this even more difficult is different regions handle this "type" of situation differently and equally some of it falls down on the type of JP you get if it goes that far.
Simple answer do all you legally can to assist them without breaking the law. Then you know you are 100% clear.
Edited by Ninja59 on Monday 1st May 18:53
ellroy said:
Funnily enough saw an ambulance in Newcastle, well Gateshead, get flashed by a Gatso last week. He had his blues and twos on, so assume they just quash the ticket?
Apparently up to a certain speed they will just disregard the ticket if they see lights on in the picture, above said speed apparently they do actually send letters out to the relevant authority but i guess they would all get chucked out in the end due to their reasoningsellroy said:
Funnily enough saw an ambulance in Newcastle, well Gateshead, get flashed by a Gatso last week. He had his blues and twos on, so assume they just quash the ticket?
Just quash the ticket? I have found the common sense approach just doesn't work for many councils or parking enforcement Nazi's.
We are unfortunate enough to have bus lane cameras and I remember some guy got knocked off his bicycle and the paramedic first response car pulled into the bus lane. Few weeks later they get a ticket with a photo of them parked in the bus lane with the cyclist on the ground and a mangled bike attempting to extract cash from them. He just passed it to his superior and it got thrown out.
Another story was of a taxi driver who was in a bus lane for about 2 metres while pulling out and got a ticket. It was about 2am and the buses stop at 11pm and don't start until 6am.
Edited by BlueHave on Monday 1st May 20:13
Edited by BlueHave on Monday 1st May 20:16
jsims1 said:
TooMany2cvs said:
That's already got my "sceptical" sensors turned up to 11...
Congratulations, you saved them twelve whole seconds for each full mile they were behind you through the roadworks.
I guess i want ready for this to turn into a topic of conversation for Mythbusters, likewise i didn't have my Amazon Echo to hand either to ask it how many seconds it would potentially save the ambulanceCongratulations, you saved them twelve whole seconds for each full mile they were behind you through the roadworks.
And for what it's worth (in spite of all the Mumsnet regulars who've posted above), I would have done what you did.
I'm amazed ,daily at the number of drivers who first HEAR a siren, then fail to look to see where the EV is coming from, and then again fail to look to see how they can move over/stop in a position of safety ,to let the EV make GOOD PROGRESS. I'd say that's what a reasonable standard of driving. I've even put the boot down in our town centre in single lane sections to get to a lay-by ,where I can pull over to let one pass. In our town ,in a two crewed police vehicle, it's common to get a wave of thanks from passenger for doing this. it's not advanced driving- just doing what's been driven out of the normal motorist by the "JOBSWORTHS" .
But ,thn most times there is no need to speed, any reasonably competent( and the number is dropping) motorist should start looking to see the vehicle. I often wonder who is deafer/blinder-the elderly , or the common motorist? Sirens can be hard to place, but BLUE lights are hard to miss ,either from in front or in the rear mirror.
But with the ££ council parties, perhaps it's time for our MPs to decide that we now need a law( in times gone, CPS would say, "no problem- driving with courtesy to EV") .These days, there's no quarter.
But ,thn most times there is no need to speed, any reasonably competent( and the number is dropping) motorist should start looking to see the vehicle. I often wonder who is deafer/blinder-the elderly , or the common motorist? Sirens can be hard to place, but BLUE lights are hard to miss ,either from in front or in the rear mirror.
But with the ££ council parties, perhaps it's time for our MPs to decide that we now need a law( in times gone, CPS would say, "no problem- driving with courtesy to EV") .These days, there's no quarter.
Edited by Who me ? on Monday 1st May 23:31
jsims1 said:
TooMany2cvs said:
That's already got my "sceptical" sensors turned up to 11...
Congratulations, you saved them twelve whole seconds for each full mile they were behind you through the roadworks.
I guess i want ready for this to turn into a topic of conversation for Mythbusters, likewise i didn't have my Amazon Echo to hand either to ask it how many seconds it would potentially save the ambulanceCongratulations, you saved them twelve whole seconds for each full mile they were behind you through the roadworks.
How long did you think it'd save?
Here's a clue:
There are 60 minutes in an hour, so 60 miles per hour is one minute per mile.
60 is 10 more than 50.
10 is 1/5th of 50.
50mph is going to take 1/5th longer per mile.
There are 60 seconds in a minute. 1/5th of 60 is 12.
That should take any adult with basic numeracy skills less than, ooh, twelve seconds to figure, but the basic ballpark saving ("not much at all") should be immediately obvious to even a primary school kid.
Sebring440 said:
And for what it's worth ..., I would have done what you did.
Would you also have whined when the inevitable happened?TooMany2cvs said:
jsims1 said:
TooMany2cvs said:
That's already got my "sceptical" sensors turned up to 11...
Congratulations, you saved them twelve whole seconds for each full mile they were behind you through the roadworks.
I guess i want ready for this to turn into a topic of conversation for Mythbusters, likewise i didn't have my Amazon Echo to hand either to ask it how many seconds it would potentially save the ambulanceCongratulations, you saved them twelve whole seconds for each full mile they were behind you through the roadworks.
How long did you think it'd save?
Here's a clue:
There are 60 minutes in an hour, so 60 miles per hour is one minute per mile.
60 is 10 more than 50.
10 is 1/5th of 50.
50mph is going to take 1/5th longer per mile.
There are 60 seconds in a minute. 1/5th of 60 is 12.
That should take any adult with basic numeracy skills less than, ooh, twelve seconds to figure, but the basic ballpark saving ("not much at all") should be immediately obvious to even a primary school kid.
Sebring440 said:
And for what it's worth ..., I would have done what you did.
Would you also have whined when the inevitable happened?I don't think it is, neither easier nor safer. You've got to slow, check that what's in there is safe, get in, then work out how to safely get out again. Doesn't sound like the best idea to me.
BTW, I don't buy the 'beeping' bit. I've never heard an EV beeping.
BTW, I don't buy the 'beeping' bit. I've never heard an EV beeping.
Countdown said:
Countdown said:
Wouldn't it be easier / safer just to move into the coned off section?
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