Self Driving Tesla and the law?
Discussion
In any form of autonomous car you are responsible for the vehicle at all times. This won't change in the near future ~10years
At the moment these autonomous systems are all marketed as 'assist' systems and they will tell you to keep your hands on the wheel.
I cant add anything about hands off the wheel in particular, but I assume they could easily pull you for carless driving (even if it is safe, in reality, for a short period)
At the moment these autonomous systems are all marketed as 'assist' systems and they will tell you to keep your hands on the wheel.
I cant add anything about hands off the wheel in particular, but I assume they could easily pull you for carless driving (even if it is safe, in reality, for a short period)
liquidfox said:
Doesn't the Tesla alert you if your hands aren't on the steering wheel, eventually disabling autopilot if you ignore the warnings to put them back on?
Tesla & Infiniti have no time limit. The driver is 'in control' so it's their choice.All others have a limit. VAG gives a warning after 20 seconds. After about 2 minutes it will stop the car.
Derek Smith said:
daniel1920 said:
I'll buy one the first day it becomes legal to drive to the pub, and my car to drive me back 
That would be driving over the limit for blood/alcohol.Maybe with alcohol detectors embedded in the steering wheel. I might be getting carried away though!
eccles said:
I wonder if there'll be a market for false hands to fool the autopilot like those seat belt ends you can plug but aren't seat belts.... 
There must be some leniency in the current law. Doesn't a Tesla have the ability to be 'recalled'. IIRC, it'll travel 20 metres to you, or go and park 20 metres away from you.
I'm not sure if that's intended for use on private land (to put itself in the garage etc), or whether it can be used on the street too.
daniel1920 said:
I'll buy one the first day it becomes legal to drive to the pub, and my car to drive me back
Well, recently Musk commented that he believes that's only about 2 years away, although you still need each country to make full autonomous driving legal, so even if the car is capable of it you may not be able to make use of it.I can't say I'm a full supporter of autonomous driving, but I have to admit it's probably a lot safer than the vast majority of minicabs I see on the roads these days, so if I had to choose between my local cab firm and a self-driving Tesla, I'd probably take the Tesla.
There are still huge issues unanswered with autonomous cars - Musk might say it is viable in 2 years, but he has a lot of money riding on making that happen - hardly a neutral perspective!
if autonomous control is so good and so safe, why don't we have:
- autonomous trains (on fixed tracks with known patterns of movement) - other than DLR?
- autonomous aeroplanes - how hard can it be to land / take off on fixed runways with known dimensions etc.?
yet we believe that we can safely have a machine pilot 2 tonnes of metal through our road system with no issues - considering the complexity of our roads and what is on them, we are still a long way from it happening...
but back to the original question - it is not illegal in any car to remove your hands from the wheel - your obligation to be in control of the car at all times, but the detail of how you do that is not directly specified...
if autonomous control is so good and so safe, why don't we have:
- autonomous trains (on fixed tracks with known patterns of movement) - other than DLR?
- autonomous aeroplanes - how hard can it be to land / take off on fixed runways with known dimensions etc.?
yet we believe that we can safely have a machine pilot 2 tonnes of metal through our road system with no issues - considering the complexity of our roads and what is on them, we are still a long way from it happening...
but back to the original question - it is not illegal in any car to remove your hands from the wheel - your obligation to be in control of the car at all times, but the detail of how you do that is not directly specified...
jamoor said:
Autonomous trains - I'm willing to bet the unions have something to do with this.
Autonomous planes - planes are largely flown on autopilot, they just need programming by someone.
trains - you might be right, but nothing to stop the gov stepping in - might mean they run reliably on time and without strikes...Autonomous planes - planes are largely flown on autopilot, they just need programming by someone.
planes - fully, without pilots?
jamoor said:
Autonomous trains - I'm willing to bet the unions have something to do with this.
Autonomous planes - planes are largely flown on autopilot, they just need programming by someone.
Planes of the future will carry a Pilot and a dog in the cockpitAutonomous planes - planes are largely flown on autopilot, they just need programming by someone.
The dog is there to bite the pilot if he touches the controls
The pilot is there to feed the dog
akirk said:
There are still huge issues unanswered with autonomous cars - Musk might say it is viable in 2 years, but he has a lot of money riding on making that happen - hardly a neutral perspective!
if autonomous control is so good and so safe, why don't we have:
- autonomous trains (on fixed tracks with known patterns of movement) - other than DLR?
- autonomous aeroplanes - how hard can it be to land / take off on fixed runways with known dimensions etc.?
yet we believe that we can safely have a machine pilot 2 tonnes of metal through our road system with no issues - considering the complexity of our roads and what is on them, we are still a long way from it happening...
but back to the original question - it is not illegal in any car to remove your hands from the wheel - your obligation to be in control of the car at all times, but the detail of how you do that is not directly specified...
The Victoria line, central and northern lines are all highly automated. The driver just operates the doors, and takes over in the event of an emergency/failure. if autonomous control is so good and so safe, why don't we have:
- autonomous trains (on fixed tracks with known patterns of movement) - other than DLR?
- autonomous aeroplanes - how hard can it be to land / take off on fixed runways with known dimensions etc.?
yet we believe that we can safely have a machine pilot 2 tonnes of metal through our road system with no issues - considering the complexity of our roads and what is on them, we are still a long way from it happening...
but back to the original question - it is not illegal in any car to remove your hands from the wheel - your obligation to be in control of the car at all times, but the detail of how you do that is not directly specified...
Auto-Pilot on planes is also highly sophisticated and can more or less fly a plane from Airport A to Airport B.
The biggest issue in autonomous cars right now is not technical, but legal and moral. It's not inconceivable that an AI controlling a car or lorry will need to make a moral decision, such as swerve to avoid a pedestrian and injure/kill the occupant(s) or save the occupant(s) and kill/injure the pedestrian. Should the AI calculate the level of likely injuries before making the decision? Will insurance companies insure for this? Do the police prosecute and if so who should be held responsible?
The AI revolution has already started, and we'll likely see an Artifical-Super Intelligence the next 20-30 years. Humans will either be extinct, or we'll move to a post-Human state, and kids today will never die.
esxste said:
The Victoria line, central and northern lines are all highly automated. The driver just operates the doors, and takes over in the event of an emergency/failure.
Auto-Pilot on planes is also highly sophisticated and can more or less fly a plane from Airport A to Airport B.
The biggest issue in autonomous cars right now is not technical, but legal and moral. It's not inconceivable that an AI controlling a car or lorry will need to make a moral decision, such as swerve to avoid a pedestrian and injure/kill the occupant(s) or save the occupant(s) and kill/injure the pedestrian. Should the AI calculate the level of likely injuries before making the decision? Will insurance companies insure for this? Do the police prosecute and if so who should be held responsible?
The AI revolution has already started, and we'll likely see an Artifical-Super Intelligence the next 20-30 years. Humans will either be extinct, or we'll move to a post-Human state, and kids today will never die.
I derided aoutonomous vehicles from the day they were announced, citing the moral or ethical arguement you present. Auto-Pilot on planes is also highly sophisticated and can more or less fly a plane from Airport A to Airport B.
The biggest issue in autonomous cars right now is not technical, but legal and moral. It's not inconceivable that an AI controlling a car or lorry will need to make a moral decision, such as swerve to avoid a pedestrian and injure/kill the occupant(s) or save the occupant(s) and kill/injure the pedestrian. Should the AI calculate the level of likely injuries before making the decision? Will insurance companies insure for this? Do the police prosecute and if so who should be held responsible?
The AI revolution has already started, and we'll likely see an Artifical-Super Intelligence the next 20-30 years. Humans will either be extinct, or we'll move to a post-Human state, and kids today will never die.
I like cars, I like to drive. But...
I watched a video of an autonomous vehicle avoiding an accident (viewed it several times) that I wasn't aware of happening despite knowing it was going to happen.
The autonomous car knew the cars ahead were going to crash before I could see the crash happening.
I tried to look for the video but it's been swamped by similar videos.
https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=tesla...
Autonomous cars ARE happening.
They are safer than you think, and I'm sad to say I can see me using one (but only if I can still go have a blast in my "real" car)
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