Car sold without owners consent
Discussion
I think I know the answer to this one but I figured I'd ask anyway.
My mate bought a newish X5 a couple of years ago, for cash (so no HPI). He then bought an M3 and gave his best mate free use of the X5. That was two years ago and over the last 6 months or so the friendship has started to become a bit strained.
At the start of this year his mate tells him that he wanted something newer so he's traded in the X5 for a newer one. My mate, the owner of the original X5, was somewhat pissed off with this but was assured he'd be paid back what was due for his X5. Unsurprisingly, he has not.
As I understand it the mate he gave use of the X5 to was never on the V5 yet it's been sold without my mate signing the relevant docs.
I suspect the police won't be interested as it's most likely a civil matter due to him giving him use of the car and it's not actually been stolen.
What, if anything, is the legal standing in this situation?
My mate bought a newish X5 a couple of years ago, for cash (so no HPI). He then bought an M3 and gave his best mate free use of the X5. That was two years ago and over the last 6 months or so the friendship has started to become a bit strained.
At the start of this year his mate tells him that he wanted something newer so he's traded in the X5 for a newer one. My mate, the owner of the original X5, was somewhat pissed off with this but was assured he'd be paid back what was due for his X5. Unsurprisingly, he has not.
As I understand it the mate he gave use of the X5 to was never on the V5 yet it's been sold without my mate signing the relevant docs.
I suspect the police won't be interested as it's most likely a civil matter due to him giving him use of the car and it's not actually been stolen.
What, if anything, is the legal standing in this situation?
I don't remember but I'm guessing the rules there are a bit different being a business?
This is one person lending (of their own free will) someone a car and that person selling it without permission. I can't imagine it will be seen as anything other than a civil matter that'll have to be pursued through court?
I'm not even sure any laws have been broken regards the V5 as his mate could have just obtained a new one at some point prior to him selling it I'm guessing?
This is one person lending (of their own free will) someone a car and that person selling it without permission. I can't imagine it will be seen as anything other than a civil matter that'll have to be pursued through court?
I'm not even sure any laws have been broken regards the V5 as his mate could have just obtained a new one at some point prior to him selling it I'm guessing?
essayer said:
Your friend's mate was loaned a newish X5.. for two years.. then just traded it in?! No V5? One key?
Pretty much. The guy he loaned it to was supposed to be his best mate but I guess that's unlikely to be the case now.This isn't the first time I've heard a story like this. My former business partner was best mates with a former heavyweight boxer (semi famous I guess) and he gave him use of a brand new Merc ML, then they fell out and he never saw it again. Police weren't interested.
Unfortunately nobody ever seems to give me free cars!
My mate says he still has the second set of keys for it, I suggested he could try tracing it and just taking it back but I guess that might get messy!
Oakey said:
I suspect the police won't be interested as it's most likely a civil matter due to him giving him use of the car and it's not actually been stolen.
Yeh, that's where the difficulty comes in.Has it been stolen? Was there intent to permanently deprive the owner of it? Yes.
But... that's where it gets grey.
Was there permission, explicit or implied, to "treat it like you owned it"? He said, she said. No documentation.
He was intending to pay the sale money back, and the owner agreed to that. So does that supercede the alleged theft, and is it now just a simple civil debt?
The DVLA would usually write to say that someone was trying to register a car belonging to the owner. If that didn't happen, I smell a fraud.
It should be easy to find the new owner and take things from there. I'd do that for a lot less than the money being discussed here. It's far more than a civil matter in my view.
Tim
It should be easy to find the new owner and take things from there. I'd do that for a lot less than the money being discussed here. It's far more than a civil matter in my view.
Tim
essayer said:
Your friend's mate was loaned a newish X5.. for two years.. then just traded it in?! No V5? One key?
This......? Who buys a car without a V5 ?? Its still your property, you also have the V5 in your name. This has to be a Police matter,if they are interested.??If you can find out where the car is go and get it,you have the keys for the car. Mind you I bet the Police WILL get interested then, you could be arrested for stealing your own car.
This is an interesting one. OP another question. Who has been paying for the Tax,insurance, Mot, maintenance etc for the last two years ?
Oakey said:
This isn't the first time I've heard a story like this. My former business partner was best mates with a former heavyweight boxer (semi famous I guess) and he gave him use of a brand new Merc ML, then they fell out and he never saw it again. Police weren't interested.
Wasn't Frank Bruno was it?Old Merc said:
This......? Who buys a car without a V5 ?? Its still your property, you also have the V5 in your name. This has to be a Police matter,if they are interested.??
If you can find out where the car is go and get it,you have the keys for the car. Mind you I bet the Police WILL get interested then, you could be arrested for stealing your own car.
This is an interesting one. OP another question. Who has been paying for the Tax,insurance, Mot, maintenance etc for the last two years ?
As far as I understand it his mate has been paying all that but then I was under the impression he wouldn't be able to insure it unless he was on the V5 as the registered keeper? The entire thing seems liked a minefield. If you can find out where the car is go and get it,you have the keys for the car. Mind you I bet the Police WILL get interested then, you could be arrested for stealing your own car.
This is an interesting one. OP another question. Who has been paying for the Tax,insurance, Mot, maintenance etc for the last two years ?
mackay45 said:
Wasn't Frank Bruno was it?
Nah, I can't say who as it'd make me too easily identifiable and this might get back to the wrong people. He's fought some big names though. Oakey said:
Nah, I can't say who as it'd make me too easily identifiable and this might get back to the wrong people. He's fought some big names though.
Fair enough, when you said 'semi famous' I doubted it was him, only asked because I parked next to him about 5 years ago and he was driving an ML. Was at my brother's school playing fields for a rugby match and the fact Frank Bruno was there (his son played for the opposition) was the talk of the morning!Bigends said:
Hes sold (or so he says) a car not belonging to him - looks like theft - Police will try and fudge it by saying its civil though
It probably is a theft and would be recorded as such but there is an easy defeat to the standard of proof required for a criminal prosecution, and that is to tell the police there was a verbal contract where the owner gave the suspect permission to dispose of it as he pleased. Pursuing a civil remedy to a lower standard of proof would be a better idea.
If hes still got the key.. track the vehicle down and get it back into his possession into a locked garage.
Then he needs to find out if hes still the registered keeper. Phone the DVLA and get them to confirm directly or indirectly that hes still the registered keeper.
Then sell the vehicle.
Finally, watch as the mess unfolds.
Then he needs to find out if hes still the registered keeper. Phone the DVLA and get them to confirm directly or indirectly that hes still the registered keeper.
Then sell the vehicle.
Finally, watch as the mess unfolds.
cat with a hat said:
If hes still got the key.. track the vehicle down and get it back into his possession into a locked garage.
Then he needs to find out if hes still the registered keeper. Phone the DVLA and get them to confirm directly or indirectly that hes still the registered keeper.
Then sell the vehicle.
Finally, watch as the mess unfolds.
You ain't wrong that a mess will unfold.Then he needs to find out if hes still the registered keeper. Phone the DVLA and get them to confirm directly or indirectly that hes still the registered keeper.
Then sell the vehicle.
Finally, watch as the mess unfolds.
Why have one person accused of theft, when you can have two?
The mate who borrowed the car is going to be the girlfriend/fiance who they broke up with. I'm confident.
Proving if he gave/lent her the car is going to be a nightmare. Frankly your mate sounds like a moron for buying his current gf an x5 and then not asking for it back when they broke up.
EDIT - and the boxer was Derek Chisora. For sure. I'm feeling confident.
Proving if he gave/lent her the car is going to be a nightmare. Frankly your mate sounds like a moron for buying his current gf an x5 and then not asking for it back when they broke up.
EDIT - and the boxer was Derek Chisora. For sure. I'm feeling confident.
Edited by photosnob on Monday 8th May 23:06
photosnob said:
The mate who borrowed the car is going to be the girlfriend/fiance who they broke up with. I'm confident.
Proving if he gave/lent her the car is going to be a nightmare. Frankly your mate sounds like a moron for buying his current gf an x5 and then not asking for it back when they broke up.
EDIT - and the boxer was Derek Chisora. For sure. I'm feeling confident.
No, it's not an ex, it's his actual best mate. Or supposed to be, my mate is supposed to be the best man at the guy who sold the cars wedding but that's also been 'postponed' now.Proving if he gave/lent her the car is going to be a nightmare. Frankly your mate sounds like a moron for buying his current gf an x5 and then not asking for it back when they broke up.
EDIT - and the boxer was Derek Chisora. For sure. I'm feeling confident.
Edited by photosnob on Monday 8th May 23:06
Not Derek Chisora either.
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