What offence? ebay and cloned cars
Discussion
A few posters have come here in the past to report wrong doing - usually a fraud of some kind - only to be told that Action Fraud is the place to report it.
In the news today is a report of an ebay scam involving cloned cars - and one of the victims, an ex-police officer is critical of the response from GMP, so I wondered WHEN, if ever, a fraud is of interest to a particular police force, and when it is left to another agency.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-39...
I can't believe that TWO people... both of whom should have known better, have been caught up in a scam like this, as it flies in the face of the advice from ebay on the site, not to pay outside of ebay for the goods... but is the criticism of GMP justified?
In the news today is a report of an ebay scam involving cloned cars - and one of the victims, an ex-police officer is critical of the response from GMP, so I wondered WHEN, if ever, a fraud is of interest to a particular police force, and when it is left to another agency.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-39...
BBC News said:
among the victims was a retired police officer who lost £17,000 buying a Mercedes from a seller in Rochdale.
He said he reported the incident to the police, but no action was taken. Police said the decision is being reviewed.
Former police officer Graham Murray lost his money after buying a Mercedes C-class in Rochdale two months ago, leaving him "devastated".
He said he reported the case to police and has questioned why the fraudulent eBay sellers have not yet been caught.
I am sure not all the details are in this report - ebay are saying the sellers accounts are closed, while the BBC say they bid on one "last week". But to whom should a victim go to report this type of issue?He said he reported the incident to the police, but no action was taken. Police said the decision is being reviewed.
Former police officer Graham Murray lost his money after buying a Mercedes C-class in Rochdale two months ago, leaving him "devastated".
He said he reported the case to police and has questioned why the fraudulent eBay sellers have not yet been caught.
I can't believe that TWO people... both of whom should have known better, have been caught up in a scam like this, as it flies in the face of the advice from ebay on the site, not to pay outside of ebay for the goods... but is the criticism of GMP justified?
Mill Wheel said:
I can't believe that TWO people... both of whom should have known better, have been caught up in a scam like this, as it flies in the face of the advice from ebay on the site, not to pay outside of ebay for the goods... but is the criticism of GMP justified?
It does seem strange that someone who, presumably, has dealt with criminals and scams should pay in cash for such an expensive item bought on ebay. Still, we all make mistakes.I was chatting to a police officer on Saturday and the subject of their triage came up. He said that they have been given directions to merely file jobs that, when he joined, would have got any probationer sacked if they'd 'sleeved' it.
I don't know GMP's tick box criteria but one might suspect that if there are systems in place to negate fraud of which the victim did not avail themselves, it might be a cross in one of the boxes. It's not right, but you get what you pay for.
I'm ex police. I bought a second hand car from a reputable dealer which, a fortnight after I drove the car away, sold out. I then discovered, or rather had pointed out to me, that the rear tyres were of different makes and one was near the limit. When I had viewed the car, the tyres were newish and of the same make. I should have checked on picking up the car. A lesson learned, and one not massively expensive, but irritating none the less.
We all make mistakes.
Unfortunately fraud is something the police really are not interested in.
I lost a car to a fraudster and the police could not have been less helpful. They simple said it was a civil matter. If anything they were aiding the fraudster. He used his own bank account so he looked like a legitimate buyer, but knew the police would not be interested in chasing him.
I've told the story on a few forums (including even on here) and never once has a police officer ever questioned what I've said about how the police treat it.
I lost a car to a fraudster and the police could not have been less helpful. They simple said it was a civil matter. If anything they were aiding the fraudster. He used his own bank account so he looked like a legitimate buyer, but knew the police would not be interested in chasing him.
I've told the story on a few forums (including even on here) and never once has a police officer ever questioned what I've said about how the police treat it.
98elise said:
Unfortunately fraud is something the police really are not interested in.
I lost a car to a fraudster and the police could not have been less helpful. They simple said it was a civil matter. If anything they were aiding the fraudster. He used his own bank account so he looked like a legitimate buyer, but knew the police would not be interested in chasing him.
I've told the story on a few forums (including even on here) and never once has a police officer ever questioned what I've said about how the police treat it.
As the topic title then... is FRAUD an offence when it involves single sales between individuals? It does not seem like it!I lost a car to a fraudster and the police could not have been less helpful. They simple said it was a civil matter. If anything they were aiding the fraudster. He used his own bank account so he looked like a legitimate buyer, but knew the police would not be interested in chasing him.
I've told the story on a few forums (including even on here) and never once has a police officer ever questioned what I've said about how the police treat it.
Mill Wheel said:
I can't believe that TWO people... both of whom should have known better, have been caught up in a scam like this, as it flies in the face of the advice from ebay on the site, not to pay outside of ebay for the goods...
If somebody asked me for £17k cash on collection for a car it would immediately make me suspicious.That said, the e-Bay spokesperson's comment as reported in the linked article is disingenuous.
Motor vehicles have never been included in Buyer Protection.
Mill Wheel said:
but is the criticism of GMP justified?
Given that the victim is former police officer, it's possible.Out of interest. When did 'cash on collection' fall out of fashion as a means to paying for a used car?
The article states eBay advise using their method of payment (presumably Paypal), but who has to suffer those fees... the seller. Also, whats to stop someone collecting the car after paying by Paypal, only for them to raise a dispute with Paypal when they get home saying theres a problem with said car. Paypal nearly always side with the buyer (buyer protection etc), unless the seller can prove otherwise. So buyer gets home in their new pride and joy, decide they would rather have the money AND the car, so tell Paypal the pistons have fallen out of the engine. How could the seller prove otherwise?
I must be pretty old school, because I always insist on cash when I'm selling, and fully expect to hand over cash when buying (privately).
The article states eBay advise using their method of payment (presumably Paypal), but who has to suffer those fees... the seller. Also, whats to stop someone collecting the car after paying by Paypal, only for them to raise a dispute with Paypal when they get home saying theres a problem with said car. Paypal nearly always side with the buyer (buyer protection etc), unless the seller can prove otherwise. So buyer gets home in their new pride and joy, decide they would rather have the money AND the car, so tell Paypal the pistons have fallen out of the engine. How could the seller prove otherwise?
I must be pretty old school, because I always insist on cash when I'm selling, and fully expect to hand over cash when buying (privately).
I was looking under Classic VW's on eBay about a month ago and saw an old camper van for £5,500. It was show condition and easily worth at least £10,000 more. I smelt a rat so looked at the sellers other items for sale
They had 30\40 vehicles for sale, all were way cheaper than you would expect. All had the same location as Warwick and all had photos that were in the grounds of nice houses but none looked like the same property
My Brother happened to be in the house at the time and has owned three M3's so I showed him one the seller had for sale. He laughed and said he had seen this seller before. He said he emailed them once but they didn't respond. Every single item had an ever so slightly different email address as the contact. I reported the seller to eBay and every single advert vanished
How would the seller actually hope to make money out of people? I imagine they ask for a deposit before you view the vehicle or similar
They had 30\40 vehicles for sale, all were way cheaper than you would expect. All had the same location as Warwick and all had photos that were in the grounds of nice houses but none looked like the same property
My Brother happened to be in the house at the time and has owned three M3's so I showed him one the seller had for sale. He laughed and said he had seen this seller before. He said he emailed them once but they didn't respond. Every single item had an ever so slightly different email address as the contact. I reported the seller to eBay and every single advert vanished
How would the seller actually hope to make money out of people? I imagine they ask for a deposit before you view the vehicle or similar
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff