Justice?, What justice??!!
Discussion
At approximately 1am this morning my son returned home with his partner after having dinner at his brother's house.
He was driving his partner's two year old, 16 valve Polo, her pride and joy and absolutely mint. They parked up outside his flat behind his company Mondeo which is only three months old and locked up for the night.
At around 1-30 his partner went down to the car to collect something that she had forgotten and discovered three neds, (that's the Scots word for chavs) hanging around the entrance to the flats.
When she asked them what they were doing she got so much abuse she became frightened and went back upstairs.
My son, who is 6ft 3in and nobody's fool went down and challenged them; he got a different reception and to the tune of , "Nae problem big man, wur jist leevin'", they disappeared.
At 3 am my son went into the kitchen for a glass of water and heard a smashing sound from the street; looking out he was just in time to see a brick being hurled through the rear window of the Polo followed by a can of petrol and then the inevitable whoosh as it ignited.
He screamed at them through the window but by the time he got downstairs they were gone and the Polo was a blazing wreck.
The fire brigade arrived on the scene and put out the remains and hosed down the Mondeo which was slightly damaged at the rear but hadn't ignited simply because it was a diesel.
The CID were called and predictably told him that there was nothing of value left in the way of forensics but they would "give him a report for his insurance".
Over the past year or so almost every member of the community in this area have incessantly complained to the police about intrusions from undesirables like this from other areas. They are a constant and dangerous presence in this area, ruining the quality of life for everyone.
The police have managed to achieve absolutely nothing; not one arrest, not one detection.
This incident however, has elevated matters to a new level, and it is obvious to all in the area that this could have been even more serious when the close proximity of other vehicles and houses are taken into account.
I find myself contemplating the risks involved in taking the law into one's own hands, and it seems like such a useful and wanton pleasure to consider leaving these people with no ability to ever hold another brick or petrol can or even a toothbrush; not that they wold need it, because they would have not a single tooth left to brush if I had just ten minutes with them.
Next month I am defending the same son in Stirling Sheriff Court against the worst excesses of our prosecution service who are determined to prove that he was travelling at a breathtaking 89 MPH on the M9 motorway last year.
It was a cameravan, that's right just like the one in Streetcop's post, y'know the one where he sits back with his feet up, coffee and doughnuts on standby earning vast sums for the Revenue and being paid double time for it into the bargain.
So you will perhaps understand Gary if I, for the first time since I joined this sight, tell you that it would do us all a great deal of good if you would for once, stand on your principles, tell your boss where to stick his camera, and get off your arse and catch some scum, because I can utterly guarantee you, that is what we all want from the police!
He was driving his partner's two year old, 16 valve Polo, her pride and joy and absolutely mint. They parked up outside his flat behind his company Mondeo which is only three months old and locked up for the night.
At around 1-30 his partner went down to the car to collect something that she had forgotten and discovered three neds, (that's the Scots word for chavs) hanging around the entrance to the flats.
When she asked them what they were doing she got so much abuse she became frightened and went back upstairs.
My son, who is 6ft 3in and nobody's fool went down and challenged them; he got a different reception and to the tune of , "Nae problem big man, wur jist leevin'", they disappeared.
At 3 am my son went into the kitchen for a glass of water and heard a smashing sound from the street; looking out he was just in time to see a brick being hurled through the rear window of the Polo followed by a can of petrol and then the inevitable whoosh as it ignited.
He screamed at them through the window but by the time he got downstairs they were gone and the Polo was a blazing wreck.
The fire brigade arrived on the scene and put out the remains and hosed down the Mondeo which was slightly damaged at the rear but hadn't ignited simply because it was a diesel.
The CID were called and predictably told him that there was nothing of value left in the way of forensics but they would "give him a report for his insurance".
Over the past year or so almost every member of the community in this area have incessantly complained to the police about intrusions from undesirables like this from other areas. They are a constant and dangerous presence in this area, ruining the quality of life for everyone.
The police have managed to achieve absolutely nothing; not one arrest, not one detection.
This incident however, has elevated matters to a new level, and it is obvious to all in the area that this could have been even more serious when the close proximity of other vehicles and houses are taken into account.
I find myself contemplating the risks involved in taking the law into one's own hands, and it seems like such a useful and wanton pleasure to consider leaving these people with no ability to ever hold another brick or petrol can or even a toothbrush; not that they wold need it, because they would have not a single tooth left to brush if I had just ten minutes with them.
Next month I am defending the same son in Stirling Sheriff Court against the worst excesses of our prosecution service who are determined to prove that he was travelling at a breathtaking 89 MPH on the M9 motorway last year.
It was a cameravan, that's right just like the one in Streetcop's post, y'know the one where he sits back with his feet up, coffee and doughnuts on standby earning vast sums for the Revenue and being paid double time for it into the bargain.
So you will perhaps understand Gary if I, for the first time since I joined this sight, tell you that it would do us all a great deal of good if you would for once, stand on your principles, tell your boss where to stick his camera, and get off your arse and catch some scum, because I can utterly guarantee you, that is what we all want from the police!
well said. And no I cant see why Gary would want to be doing this type of skullduggery, mortgage or no mortgage.
I wouldnt be a camera operator for all the tea in china. So Gary may well go home with a tonne or so in his skyrocket after his shift, but I hope that his spending it is marred by the thought that his time in that van with his camera *may* have just cost someone else his job. And its fair to middling that, that poor bugger had a mortgage as well.
The things some people will do for money eh? (Princeperch skulks back to his law books....)
Edited to say, hope the insurance isnt a nightmare to sort out. All the best
>> Edited by princeperch on Monday 4th April 20:18
I wouldnt be a camera operator for all the tea in china. So Gary may well go home with a tonne or so in his skyrocket after his shift, but I hope that his spending it is marred by the thought that his time in that van with his camera *may* have just cost someone else his job. And its fair to middling that, that poor bugger had a mortgage as well.
The things some people will do for money eh? (Princeperch skulks back to his law books....)
Edited to say, hope the insurance isnt a nightmare to sort out. All the best
>> Edited by princeperch on Monday 4th April 20:18
I have to say I know the feeling, I get undesirables around mine all the time, police station is at the top of the road some 300 yards away and it takes on average 6 hours for one to make it down the road.
As ever im the only one in the flats brave enough to approach them and on more than one occasion they have upset my girlfriend and dissappeared before I got back.
The latest problem a chap in the flats behind me consitantly plays music very very loud. Police say they dont deal with these type of complaints and its the councils job, ring the council they say its the police`s job (This is nottingham by the way). Well last time he did it I was hitting his door so hard the girlfriend could hear it through his flat and into ours and im also one level up. The bloke wouldnt answer his door and I banged for over 30 mins till hand was very very bruised. (He started at 9pm this was now 3am) No one came out of the other flats (What a surprise there then) so in the end I pulled his fuse box door and murcifully there was a circuit bracker to trip (Thought I was going to have to get garden shears and big rubber gloves to the mains)
So you get my absolute simpathys and pass them on to you son and his girlfiend for me
>> Edited by boredpilot on Monday 4th April 20:20
As ever im the only one in the flats brave enough to approach them and on more than one occasion they have upset my girlfriend and dissappeared before I got back.
The latest problem a chap in the flats behind me consitantly plays music very very loud. Police say they dont deal with these type of complaints and its the councils job, ring the council they say its the police`s job (This is nottingham by the way). Well last time he did it I was hitting his door so hard the girlfriend could hear it through his flat and into ours and im also one level up. The bloke wouldnt answer his door and I banged for over 30 mins till hand was very very bruised. (He started at 9pm this was now 3am) No one came out of the other flats (What a surprise there then) so in the end I pulled his fuse box door and murcifully there was a circuit bracker to trip (Thought I was going to have to get garden shears and big rubber gloves to the mains)
So you get my absolute simpathys and pass them on to you son and his girlfiend for me
>> Edited by boredpilot on Monday 4th April 20:20
boredpilot said:
The latest problem a chap in the flats behind me consitantly plays music very very loud. Police say they dont deal with these type of complaints and its the councils job, ring the council they say its the police`s job (This is nottingham by the way
you should try living in radford (nottingham city centre for the out of towners on PH
) chap, the police are scared to get out of their vehicles here 
what hope for respect if the yobs know that even the mighty arm of the law is afraid?
personally, I have taken personal protection precautions
Iolaire, I was just thinking earlier today that I hadn't seen you post for a while, and then you come up with a spot-on post like this.
It does appear that there is a "chase the easy prosecutions with registration numbers on" regime, while the harder cases (the ones where mindless cowards actually perpetrate damage and harm deliberately on other people) are considered just too difficult to be arsed climbing out of the van for.
It does appear that there is a "chase the easy prosecutions with registration numbers on" regime, while the harder cases (the ones where mindless cowards actually perpetrate damage and harm deliberately on other people) are considered just too difficult to be arsed climbing out of the van for.
princeperch said:
well said. And no I cant see why Gary would want to be doing this type of skullduggery, mortgage or no mortgage.
I wouldnt be a camera operator for all the tea in china. So Gary may well go home with a tonne or so in his skyrocket after his shift, but I hope that his spending it is marred by the thought that his time in that van with his camera *may* have just cost someone else his job. And its fair to middling that, that poor bugger had a mortgage as well.
The things some people will do for money eh? (Princeperch skulks back to his law books....)
Edited to say, hope the insurance isnt a nightmare to sort out. All the best
>> Edited by princeperch on Monday 4th April 20:18
If Gary didnt do it, someone else would anyway. Think of it this way: that sommeone else doesnt post here and wont be telling us what goes on inside the van, how the operators are told to work, and possibly the motivation behind why less reputable vans are sneaky shits.
>> Edited by sadako on Monday 4th April 21:40
James, I'm sorry to hear about that dreadful incident and I entirely understand your frustration. We can only hope things get sorted out for you reasonably satisfactorily without too much delay.
As for police priorities, it seems to me (based on the experiences being reported in these forums) that the really important crimes are not being tackled with sufficient determination, but the easy targets are receiving plenty of attention.
The balance is quite wrong in my opinion, and I'm sorry to say that Gary's attitude with his camera van involvement (for example) is not providing any reassurance.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
As for police priorities, it seems to me (based on the experiences being reported in these forums) that the really important crimes are not being tackled with sufficient determination, but the easy targets are receiving plenty of attention.
The balance is quite wrong in my opinion, and I'm sorry to say that Gary's attitude with his camera van involvement (for example) is not providing any reassurance.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Dont get me wrong Gary if your reading this, I bet your a bloody good cop and a nice bloke, and ive learnt a thing or two off you, but....
I dont buy the "well if I dont do it someone else wil attitude". There are things called principles, and if you stand for nothing you will fall for anything in my book. If Gary does believe mobile and/or convert cameras are the way forward, I think his wrong, but its his life. If he thinks they are wrong but he still is prepared to do it for the yankee dollar, then I guess everyone can have their principles brought. I just consider myself not to be one such person.
I guess there are more important things in life to worry about at the end of the day...
I dont buy the "well if I dont do it someone else wil attitude". There are things called principles, and if you stand for nothing you will fall for anything in my book. If Gary does believe mobile and/or convert cameras are the way forward, I think his wrong, but its his life. If he thinks they are wrong but he still is prepared to do it for the yankee dollar, then I guess everyone can have their principles brought. I just consider myself not to be one such person.
I guess there are more important things in life to worry about at the end of the day...
Like Tvrgit was beginning to wonder what had happened to IOLAIRE.
How to try and defend the indefendable?
The only way to prevent what IO reports would be to have a Plod outside 24/7 and likewise at every other street. Impossible. Even trebling the authorised strengths of a Force would not stop such occurrences
for in large conurbations it would seem that mob rules apply and it aint going to get any better until there is a large shift of attitude of ones behavior to ones fellow man and that a punishment fits the crime. We are too soft and tied up with protecting the rights of the evil.
IO reports an incident and if one was to see the log of such matters for that Force then applied to manpower availability, 10 to 1 matters outnumber those available to deal or even do any preventative patrolling.
As to attention to speeding. It doesn't need Plod as that can be detected electronically.
I read post like these with heavy heart for it refelects badly on a job I did for 30 years. I have sympathy with the victim and whilst initally feeling some rage at the inability of the Police to prevent such matters this is tempered with the knowledge that Plod has his back to the wall against an ever increasing tsumai of lawlessness and so cannot be all things to all men.
Sorry for you IOLAIRE and I hope they catch the scumbags and if they do as sure as God made little apples they aren't going to be punished are they?
DVD
How to try and defend the indefendable?
The only way to prevent what IO reports would be to have a Plod outside 24/7 and likewise at every other street. Impossible. Even trebling the authorised strengths of a Force would not stop such occurrences
for in large conurbations it would seem that mob rules apply and it aint going to get any better until there is a large shift of attitude of ones behavior to ones fellow man and that a punishment fits the crime. We are too soft and tied up with protecting the rights of the evil.
IO reports an incident and if one was to see the log of such matters for that Force then applied to manpower availability, 10 to 1 matters outnumber those available to deal or even do any preventative patrolling.
As to attention to speeding. It doesn't need Plod as that can be detected electronically.
I read post like these with heavy heart for it refelects badly on a job I did for 30 years. I have sympathy with the victim and whilst initally feeling some rage at the inability of the Police to prevent such matters this is tempered with the knowledge that Plod has his back to the wall against an ever increasing tsumai of lawlessness and so cannot be all things to all men.
Sorry for you IOLAIRE and I hope they catch the scumbags and if they do as sure as God made little apples they aren't going to be punished are they?
DVD
Dwight VanDriver said:
Like Tvrgit was beginning to wonder what had happened to IOLAIRE.
How to try and defend the indefendable?
The only way to prevent what IO reports would be to have a Plod outside 24/7 and likewise at every other street. Impossible. Even trebling the authorised strengths of a Force would not stop such occurrences
for in large conurbations it would seem that mob rules apply and it aint going to get any better until there is a large shift of attitude of ones behavior to ones fellow man and that a punishment fits the crime. We are too soft and tied up with protecting the rights of the evil.
Quite true.
However, at present there is absolutely no deterrent at all. There is basically zero chance of being caught !
This is a variation of the common Police Service argument along the lines of because we can't stop crime altogether by actually taking preventative measures, therefore it's not worth doing anything at all.
Dwight VanDriver said:
IO reports an incident and if one was to see the log of such matters for that Force then applied to manpower availability, 10 to 1 matters outnumber those available to deal or even do any preventative patrolling.
Why are they not available ? There are an enormous number of Police Officers. What are they actually doing ?
Are the claims of Surrey and Notts CCs accurate ?
Why, in hundreds of visits to our local City, Norwich, have I never seen a patrolling officer of any sort and only once seen a PSCO ?
Dwight VanDriver said:
As to attention to speeding. It doesn't need Plod as that can be detected electronically.
I read post like these with heavy heart for it refelects badly on a job I did for 30 years. I have sympathy with the victim and whilst initally feeling some rage at the inability of the Police to prevent such matters this is tempered with the knowledge that Plod has his back to the wall against an ever increasing tsumai of lawlessness and so cannot be all things to all men.
[quote]
This is true. However, they do not help themselves.
They are rolling over, taking the "oh it can't be done" line. They don't even try.
People think they are lying, and with good reason.
There seems to be plenty of manpower for Speed checking - and that's what pi**es people off.
Police whining about shortage of manpower and refusing to attend combined with over the top intensive speed limit enforcement.
What do the Police expect ? Gratitude ? What for !
[quote=Dwight VanDriver]
Sorry for you IOLAIRE and I hope they catch the scumbags and if they do as sure as God made little apples they aren't going to be punished are they?
No, of course they aren't.
Dwight VanDriver said:
L
The only way to prevent what IO reports would be to have a Plod outside 24/7 and likewise at every other street. Impossible.
That statement is not entirely true... If CCTV were used (like the system that used to operate in bournemouth, but alas the local council haven't maintained it) then there would be :
1 - A deterrent
2 - A chance of identifying the scrotes.
Unfortunately point 2 assumes a semi competent police force.....
I read at the weekend a shopkeeper who was robbed, offered the police investigating CCTV footage of the incident and the address of the scrotes
The police response was
"why don't you watch it at home...." and
"They'll just deny it"
WTF?????
Unfortunately for them the smae CCTV footage recorded the police incompetence, which ended up in the hands of the media!
Dwight VanDriver said:
The only way to prevent what IO reports would be to have a Plod outside 24/7 and likewise at every other street. Impossible. Even trebling the authorised strengths of a Force would not stop such occurrences for in large conurbations it would seem that mob rules apply and it aint going to get any better until there is a large shift of attitude of ones behavior to ones fellow man and that a punishment fits the crime. We are too soft and tied up with protecting the rights of the evil.
Tried to work out what the Conservative promises of 40,000 extra plod meant for my little homeland covering three towns pop'n 55k, 20k, 10k, another 15 k widely spread over a rural area. The population increases markedly during holiday season and at weekends/bank holidays especially.
The 40,000 extra plod translates into 42 extra individuals. Ignoring allowances for leave, sickies etc, split that across the shifts, the towns, and you don't get many more troops out on the street at any one point in time.
boredpilot said:
I have to say I know the feeling, I get undesirables around mine all the time, police station is at the top of the road some 300 yards away and it takes on average 6 hours for one to make it down the road.
Try saying 'one of them's waving a gun around' when you call - you'll get a pretty quick response then (and with any luck they'll take out a couple of them as they aim a beer can in the dark).
jesusbuiltmycar said:See Page 5 of BIG BROTHER TO CATCH CRIMINALS...GOOD OR BAD.. - Streaky
[ ... ]
I read at the weekend a shopkeeper who was robbed, offered the police investigating CCTV footage of the incident and the address of the scrotes
The police response was
"why don't you watch it at home...." and
"They'll just deny it"
WTF?????
Unfortunately for them the smae CCTV footage recorded the police incompetence, which ended up in the hands of the media!
My son and his partner thank you gemtlemen for your sympathies, but there have been interesting developments since last night and I'll come back on tomorrow with another post and update you all.
I haven't been on here for a while because I am moving to the States and have so much to do in the way of organisation.
But DVD is absolutely correct when he talks of having to post plod 24/7 to catch these sort of people.
There are some very pertinent points to consider however when thinking along these lines.
We have reached a point with traffic enforcement when there IS 24 hour posting; speed cameras; they are never switched off!
On top of this is a policy now of blatant and concentrated entrapment; devices being operated solely to detect speed in areas where it is completely safe to do that said speed, and in locations where drivers least expect them for exactly the same reason.
Unmarked vehicles being used for the same purpose, as we have already discussed, with VASCAR equipment manned by only one officer.
If that weight of enforcement technique and equipment was use against those with genuine criminal intent, there can be no doubt the outcome would be significantly different.
But we also have to examine the social structure of our country and why it now seems to breed these kind of individuals.
What went wrong?
Where did we go wrong?
Why do the courts not properly deal with these people?
Again DVD is spot on in this regard. They simply will not be punished, and the insanity of it all is that there are so many alternatives that would be so much better than the status quo.
I think I can speak for most people when I say that the feeling of utter injustice is the worst aspect of the whole thing.
My experience, particularly with the prosecution services, is that they go to enormous lengths to convict motorists, a great many times completely erroneously, but literally thousands of far more serious and socially offensive crimes go undetected and never see the inside of a courtroom.
I don't know about DVD, but if I were a copper that would be the single most frustrating part of the job, and would motivate me to try and effect change through contact with senior officers and politicians.
Back on tomorrow.
I haven't been on here for a while because I am moving to the States and have so much to do in the way of organisation.
But DVD is absolutely correct when he talks of having to post plod 24/7 to catch these sort of people.
There are some very pertinent points to consider however when thinking along these lines.
We have reached a point with traffic enforcement when there IS 24 hour posting; speed cameras; they are never switched off!
On top of this is a policy now of blatant and concentrated entrapment; devices being operated solely to detect speed in areas where it is completely safe to do that said speed, and in locations where drivers least expect them for exactly the same reason.
Unmarked vehicles being used for the same purpose, as we have already discussed, with VASCAR equipment manned by only one officer.
If that weight of enforcement technique and equipment was use against those with genuine criminal intent, there can be no doubt the outcome would be significantly different.
But we also have to examine the social structure of our country and why it now seems to breed these kind of individuals.
What went wrong?
Where did we go wrong?
Why do the courts not properly deal with these people?
Again DVD is spot on in this regard. They simply will not be punished, and the insanity of it all is that there are so many alternatives that would be so much better than the status quo.
I think I can speak for most people when I say that the feeling of utter injustice is the worst aspect of the whole thing.
My experience, particularly with the prosecution services, is that they go to enormous lengths to convict motorists, a great many times completely erroneously, but literally thousands of far more serious and socially offensive crimes go undetected and never see the inside of a courtroom.
I don't know about DVD, but if I were a copper that would be the single most frustrating part of the job, and would motivate me to try and effect change through contact with senior officers and politicians.
Back on tomorrow.
Interested in the comments on CCTV.
Last October a small group of neds slung a glass bottle across a car park at me and a group of parents and young lads. I saw it coming because I was the only person facing that way (the boys were getting into a minibus) - this bottle smashed against the bus and showered us all in glass. Nobody was hurt fortunately.
This was in an area covered by several CCTV cameras (and I know their overlapping fields of view - I have worked these cameras myself in the past - when these neds ran off they must have passd through the field of view of no less than 4 cameras, and possibly more, depending on their route further away.
Some of my lads recognised these neds.
I didn't report it till next day - I gave the police the names and the cctv tapes.
Despite all that there was still apparently nothing they could do...
Then last month I was mugged (with a resulting broken shoulder) by a huge group, who then hung about for an hour and a half afterwards, taunting other passers-by and then, when the police turned up, running about 100 yards away, because they knew the police wouldn't get out of their van, and they were right.
Again, nothing they could do. Apparently.
I hear all these comments about limited manpower, and I am not in a position to contradict that. The public perception, however, is that the neds, scroats and scum rule the roost, and the rest of us better just stay out of the way because we have no reliable backup at all.
"Tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime" we were told at the last election. Total unadulterated incontestable and irrefutable bollox...
I am sick of it. Whoever is to blame, it's just not bloody well good enough. We want our society back.
>> Edited by tvrgit on Tuesday 5th April 16:57
Last October a small group of neds slung a glass bottle across a car park at me and a group of parents and young lads. I saw it coming because I was the only person facing that way (the boys were getting into a minibus) - this bottle smashed against the bus and showered us all in glass. Nobody was hurt fortunately.
This was in an area covered by several CCTV cameras (and I know their overlapping fields of view - I have worked these cameras myself in the past - when these neds ran off they must have passd through the field of view of no less than 4 cameras, and possibly more, depending on their route further away.
Some of my lads recognised these neds.
I didn't report it till next day - I gave the police the names and the cctv tapes.
Despite all that there was still apparently nothing they could do...
Then last month I was mugged (with a resulting broken shoulder) by a huge group, who then hung about for an hour and a half afterwards, taunting other passers-by and then, when the police turned up, running about 100 yards away, because they knew the police wouldn't get out of their van, and they were right.
Again, nothing they could do. Apparently.
I hear all these comments about limited manpower, and I am not in a position to contradict that. The public perception, however, is that the neds, scroats and scum rule the roost, and the rest of us better just stay out of the way because we have no reliable backup at all.
"Tough on crime and tough on the causes of crime" we were told at the last election. Total unadulterated incontestable and irrefutable bollox...
I am sick of it. Whoever is to blame, it's just not bloody well good enough. We want our society back.
>> Edited by tvrgit on Tuesday 5th April 16:57
deva link said:
I have to say I know the feeling, I get undesirables around mine all the time, police station is at the top of the road some 300 yards away and it takes on average 6 hours for one to make it down the road.
Try saying 'one of them's waving a gun around' when you call - you'll get a pretty quick response then (and with any luck they'll take out a couple of them as they aim a beer can in the dark).
Funnily enough when the chap was playing his music loud the first time (this one was before I pulled the door of the fuse box) I opend his letter box, freezer door is wide open, food on the floor no answer with me banging and shouting through the letter box, rang police for 3rd time said there is a good chance he isnt alive with fact of freezer door etc there response was to ring be 40 mins later and say well we might go round. (They didnt and unfortunaly the bugger was alive) As for the undesirables we know there dealing durgs, have said so and nothing happend that day (That would have been such an easy catch as the road it a dead end where I am so as soon as police leave station and into the road ie cross the road they would have blocked them already)
IOLAIRE said:
Over the past year or so almost every member of the community in this area have incessantly complained to the police about intrusions from undesirables like this from other areas. They are a constant and dangerous presence in this area, ruining the quality of life for everyone.
Know what you mean, my works car park was reknowned for getting car break ins and from what people could work out it was pretty much the same time everyday, after tipping the cops off (hint hint) they failed to even return a call yet alone turn up and catch the tw@s.
autismuk said:
Quite true.
However, at present there is absolutely no deterrent at all. There is basically zero chance of being caught !
Not quite right. Depending on where you live, it ranges from about 1 in 7 times to 1 in 2 1/2 times.
autismuk said:
This is a variation of the common Police Service argument along the lines of because we can't stop crime altogether by actually taking preventative measures, therefore it's not worth doing anything at all.
This is not just a police problem. Ever left your windows open/unlocked? How many crimes that are committed are preventable if those who become victims actually took a moment to reduce the risks?
Stopping crime is down to everyone who may be affected by it to help. It is not just down to the police.
You are a teacher?
Is it just down to you to educate the children in your charge? If it was, we would have an even bigger problem than we do now! How many can truly say they take their parental responsibilities seriously?
autismuk said:
Why are they not available ? There are an enormous number of Police Officers. What are they actually doing ?
I will tell you why.
Last night I had a team of 18 officers.
2 committed all night to cell watches.
2 committed all night to scene watches
2 committed to take 2 obnoxious 13 year old girls from Macclesfield who turned up pissed back to Macclesfield because parents would not come to get them and I could not afford to babysit them all night. My crew met half way at NEC Birmingham by one of the girls grandparents who eventually accepted responsibility. Social services washed their hands. Cheshire Police washed their hands.
2 committed to house searches for another force after an arrest in the Met. This took 5 hours hours to sort out because of paperwork authoristaion issues plus the search itself.
2 officers to patrol on foot in civvys in an area hit by burglaries so unavailable for uniform reactive jobs.
4 officers lost to dealing with handover prisoners from the late shift (took all night). 2 of those prisoners were in a Police Custody unit 10 miles away!
That left me with the grand total of 4 officers to attend and react to the whole of a population of 90,000 on the edge of London.
Can you see where they all go now?
autismuk said:
Are the claims of Surrey and Notts CCs accurate ?
mostly
autismuk said:
Why, in hundreds of visits to our local City, Norwich, have I never seen a patrolling officer of any sort and only once seen a PSCO ?
Read the above.
autismuk said:
This is true. However, they do not help themselves.
They are rolling over, taking the "oh it can't be done" line. They don't even try.
I think you will find that they do help themselves. New ways of dealing with things are being develpoed all the time to try and free up patrol time and resources. You can only spread the butter to a certain thickness though!
autismuk said:
People think they are lying, and with good reason.
Because they are in denial of the problems that face society and they do not care to make a stand and and effort to make things better by taking responsibility.
autismuk said:
There seems to be plenty of manpower for Speed checking - and that's what pi**es people off.
Hadn't you noticed?
Its mainly automatic. Most forces operate a couple of camera vans and half a dozen camera operators to man them.
autsimuk said:
Police whining about shortage of manpower and refusing to attend combined with over the top intensive speed limit enforcement.
Not refusing to attend. We would and will attend when we have an available unit free. We must as it is in the home office counting rules and under scrutiny from them.
autismuk said:
What do the Police expect ? Gratitude ? What for !
No. We don't expect gratitude. We do expect people to take a little responsibility. An occasional thank you would be nice but hey......! Its a job and we get payed at the end of it.
Do teachers get any gartitude?
Do Nurses and Doctors get any gratitude?
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