Sold a car engine siezed, now found it has finance on it
Discussion
Hi, I'm a long time lurker on here mainly on the TVR forum.
Would appreciate some help.
App 6 weeks ago I bought a car off eBay as a non runner, got it home did a cam belt change including tensioner a etc, did a full service fitted new tyres and motd it. A friend of mine drove it round for few days on different Types of road and didnt have any problems
Due to change of plans I then needed to sell it so it went back on eBay at a fixed price but didnt sell.
A young lad contacts me and offers me a knocked down price we agreed the sale and he collects it and drives off no problem. The drive home was 60 miles with no problems. A week later he contacts me and tells me he's blown it up on the motorway. Apparently a piston and rod have gone through the block so the engine is scrap.
Obviously he wants his money back, I refused but as a gesture of goodwill have recomended someone who could change the engine if he covers the cost.
His father has now started threatening me and tells me that apparently the car has outstanding finance on it ( I know nothing about this !!) he wants a refund within 24 hours or he's going to take me to court. And he hinted at coming round my house !!
Fortunately I'm working away at the moment.
I politely told him that I would not refund him the money and will have no further contact with him.
I am not a trader, and have given all the details that I am aware of.
Any advice would be appreciared.
Would appreciate some help.
App 6 weeks ago I bought a car off eBay as a non runner, got it home did a cam belt change including tensioner a etc, did a full service fitted new tyres and motd it. A friend of mine drove it round for few days on different Types of road and didnt have any problems
Due to change of plans I then needed to sell it so it went back on eBay at a fixed price but didnt sell.
A young lad contacts me and offers me a knocked down price we agreed the sale and he collects it and drives off no problem. The drive home was 60 miles with no problems. A week later he contacts me and tells me he's blown it up on the motorway. Apparently a piston and rod have gone through the block so the engine is scrap.
Obviously he wants his money back, I refused but as a gesture of goodwill have recomended someone who could change the engine if he covers the cost.
His father has now started threatening me and tells me that apparently the car has outstanding finance on it ( I know nothing about this !!) he wants a refund within 24 hours or he's going to take me to court. And he hinted at coming round my house !!
Fortunately I'm working away at the moment.
I politely told him that I would not refund him the money and will have no further contact with him.
I am not a trader, and have given all the details that I am aware of.
Any advice would be appreciared.
mike various said:
App 6 weeks ago I bought a car off eBay as a non runner, got it home did a cam belt change including tensioner a etc, did a full service fitted new tyres and motd it...
Due to change of plans I then needed to sell it so it went back on eBay at a fixed price...
A young lad contacts me...
A week later...
I am not a trader
So you owned it for a month? It's not going to be straightforward proving that you didn't buy it with the intent of fixing and selling... Have you done similar with any other cars recently?Due to change of plans I then needed to sell it so it went back on eBay at a fixed price...
A young lad contacts me...
A week later...
I am not a trader
How did you advertise it? Did the wording make any comment about mechanical condition? What sort of amount are we talking about?
MitchT said:
Run an HPI check on it, if you didn't before you bought it. That'll answer the finance question. No finance? Tell them to do one. Finance? Wait for someone who knows where you stand to answer the thread.
In before Logbook Loans.. if that's still a thing.Bit confused as to why a car was a "non runner" when bought when it seemingly only needed a cam belt change?
BertBert said:
TooMany2cvs said:
So you owned it for a month? It's not going to be straightforward proving that you didn't buy it with the intent of fixing and selling... Have you done similar with any other cars recently?
Prove what to whom? What's fixing and selling got to do with it?BertBert said:
TooMany2cvs said:
So you owned it for a month? It's not going to be straightforward proving that you didn't buy it with the intent of fixing and selling... Have you done similar with any other cars recently?
Prove what to whom? What's fixing and selling got to do with it?I originally bought it for the ex wife, to replace her knackered old saxo. We had a major argument and that's why I sold it. The car is are Renault Clio 08 regand it was sold for 1450.
I am handy with a spanner but it is a hobby and I occasionally do jobs for my relatives
. I have a full time job in the construction industry and have no inclination to mess about about selling cars, too much hassle !!!
I am handy with a spanner but it is a hobby and I occasionally do jobs for my relatives
. I have a full time job in the construction industry and have no inclination to mess about about selling cars, too much hassle !!!
Despite what some might believe "caveat emptor" isn't a licence to sell anything you like in any condition to anyone as a non-trader. The devil is in the detail - how it was advertised, what was said, etc.
Having said that engines seize and I can imagine it would be very difficult to prove conclusively (i.e. in court) that as an individual you had either the ability to forsee the cause of such an event.
Obviously if you're a trader all bets are off.
Having said that engines seize and I can imagine it would be very difficult to prove conclusively (i.e. in court) that as an individual you had either the ability to forsee the cause of such an event.
Obviously if you're a trader all bets are off.
singlecoil said:
Answer is obvious, if he bought it with the intention of selling it then he is a trader and therefore the sale is covered by laws that protect the purchaser.
I'm not so sure a court would agree that an individual buying a car and selling it at a profit would automatically be a trader. I'd like to think the bar is set a little higher than that, i.e. that there is some history of doing it, and actions that indicate trade-like behaviour (e.g. V5 stuff)Edited by Durzel on Thursday 6th July 15:54
mike various said:
Butterface I have sent you an e mail.
I am definitely not a driveway trader !! Don't want the hassle on eBay I think I've sold 1 car in the last 2 years so hardly a trader !!
Thx
Recieved. There is finance showing on the HPI, it may be worth a call to see if they still have an interest in the car though as it dates from 2014.I am definitely not a driveway trader !! Don't want the hassle on eBay I think I've sold 1 car in the last 2 years so hardly a trader !!
Thx
I'll message you the finance company details.
Thanks I asked the father of the lad who bought it to give me that information but he hasn't responded yet.
To be honest I don't want to talk to the guy.
If the car had packed up as he drove it off the drive then I would have thought different and given him some money back. However a over a week later when he blows the engine up in a big way after the car drove perfectly before he got his hands on it then I'm sorry but I can't be responsible for that.
To be honest I don't want to talk to the guy.
If the car had packed up as he drove it off the drive then I would have thought different and given him some money back. However a over a week later when he blows the engine up in a big way after the car drove perfectly before he got his hands on it then I'm sorry but I can't be responsible for that.
Would've thought the finance would be a sticky one though, especially with you only owning a month. One could draw the inference that you bought it and found out about the finance yourself post-sale and tried to dispose of it quietly yourself. No idea what kind of weight that has in legal terms though.
Durzel said:
I'm not so sure a court would agree that an individual buying a car and selling it at a profit would automatically be a trader. I'd like to think the bar is set a little higher than that, i.e. that there is some history of doing it, and actions that indicate trade-like behaviour (e.g. V5 stuff)
There's a list of what HMRC view as "badges of trade"http://www.accaglobal.com/uk/en/technical-activiti...
Buying a car, fixing it, selling it within a month... That's ticking several of those straight off.
Profit seeking motive - They've heard "I changed my mind" a few times before, I'll bet.
The number of transactions - Apparently not.
The nature of the asset - Yep.
Existence of similar trading transactions or interests - Again, apparently not, but probably not hard to spin that for most car people...
Changes to the asset - Yep.
The way the sale was carried out - Yep.
The source of finance - Cash for the original purchase, I guess?
Interval of time between purchase and sale - Yep.
Method of acquisition - Could go either way.
mike various said:
If the car had packed up as he drove it off the drive then I would have thought different and given him some money back. However a over a week later when he blows the engine up in a big way after the car drove perfectly before he got his hands on it then I'm sorry but I can't be responsible for that.
Hmm. You bought it with an engine problem, fixed the engine problems you identified, then it turns out there's another engine problem... You're not in the motor trade at all, but did what many people would see as "a very big job" - cam belt. Do you know how the engine's let go...?Durzel said:
singlecoil said:
Answer is obvious, if he bought it with the intention of selling it then he is a trader and therefore the sale is covered by laws that protect the purchaser.
I'm not so sure a court would agree that an individual buying a car and selling it at a profit would automatically be a trader. I'd like to think the bar is set a little higher than that, i.e. that there is some history of doing it, and actions that indicate trade-like behaviour (e.g. V5 stuff)TooMany2cvs said:
Durzel said:
I'm not so sure a court would agree that an individual buying a car and selling it at a profit would automatically be a trader. I'd like to think the bar is set a little higher than that, i.e. that there is some history of doing it, and actions that indicate trade-like behaviour (e.g. V5 stuff)
There's a list of what HMRC view as "badges of trade"http://www.accaglobal.com/uk/en/technical-activiti...
Buying a car, fixing it, selling it within a month... That's ticking several of those straight off.
Profit seeking motive - They've heard "I changed my mind" a few times before, I'll bet.
The number of transactions - Apparently not.
The nature of the asset - Yep.
Existence of similar trading transactions or interests - Again, apparently not, but probably not hard to spin that for most car people...
Changes to the asset - Yep.
The way the sale was carried out - Yep.
The source of finance - Cash for the original purchase, I guess?
Interval of time between purchase and sale - Yep.
Method of acquisition - Could go either way.
mike various said:
If the car had packed up as he drove it off the drive then I would have thought different and given him some money back. However a over a week later when he blows the engine up in a big way after the car drove perfectly before he got his hands on it then I'm sorry but I can't be responsible for that.
Hmm. You bought it with an engine problem, fixed the engine problems you identified, then it turns out there's another engine problem... You're not in the motor trade at all, but did what many people would see as "a very big job" - cam belt. Do you know how the engine's let go...?I can't see a court looking at a bloke who works full time in construction who has sold 1 car in the last 2 years as being "a person who deals in property as a business", regardless of how many semantics boxes you want to tick.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff