Hired Boat Red Diesel
Discussion
I recently hired a river cruise boat for a week. A very pleasant holiday for me & Mrs Biker, pottering about on the river.
The deal is, you pay a £100 fuel deposit; on returning the boat, they refill the diesel tank & refund the difference based on what you've used.
All well & good: on return to the boat yard, diesel was pumped into boat, & we had apparently used £35 worth, so £65 refund. Diesel was dispensed from an ordinary looking pump with digital readout in litres & £, priced at £1.15/litre. However, I noticed red diesel was being used, which I believe is entirely legal for marine purposes, but surely the hire company isn't allowed to sell it at this sort of price, given that it is available for around 47p/litre?? Is this legal? Is this normal practice for boat hire?
The deal is, you pay a £100 fuel deposit; on returning the boat, they refill the diesel tank & refund the difference based on what you've used.
All well & good: on return to the boat yard, diesel was pumped into boat, & we had apparently used £35 worth, so £65 refund. Diesel was dispensed from an ordinary looking pump with digital readout in litres & £, priced at £1.15/litre. However, I noticed red diesel was being used, which I believe is entirely legal for marine purposes, but surely the hire company isn't allowed to sell it at this sort of price, given that it is available for around 47p/litre?? Is this legal? Is this normal practice for boat hire?
Someone buys cherry off us for his boat because they spank you at marinas like you have found.
As an aside, he was complaining about the thirst of said boat. I asked him how powerfull it was and how much fuel it was using. Turns out the boat has a 300hp engine and uses what I consider enough for about 150hp, so I told him he's obviously not using it very hard if that's all the fuel it's using. It just didn't compute with him.
As an aside, he was complaining about the thirst of said boat. I asked him how powerfull it was and how much fuel it was using. Turns out the boat has a 300hp engine and uses what I consider enough for about 150hp, so I told him he's obviously not using it very hard if that's all the fuel it's using. It just didn't compute with him.
rog007 said:
Red Diesel used to propel a pleasure craft (as opposed to heating one) does not enjoy reduced taxation rates anymore hence the higher cost you experienced.
If that is indeed the case, then I stand corrected. However, why would they use red diesel? Surely normal white stuff would be provided?rog007 said:
Red Diesel used to propel a pleasure craft (as opposed to heating one) does not enjoy reduced taxation rates anymore hence the higher cost you experienced.
We had a lorry load of cherry delivered yesterday, I suspect it cost circa 45 pence per litre delivered. This will be ultra low sulphur. Legally you can use red diesel in a pleasure/leisure boat for the purposes of propulsion.
BUT this is subject to the full rate of duty as per normal road diesel.
Red diesel at the rebated rate can be used in pleasure/leisure boats for heating.
The problem is that in years past pleasure/leisure boats were allowed to use red diesel for propulsion at the rebated rate.
This was changed by an EU ruling.
It was decided that red could continue to be used for both purposes otherwise the marinas would need to install additional pumps and tanks to dispense white diesel and the boat would have to have two fuel tanks, one for propulsion fuel and one for heating fuel.
You might find this from 2014 of interest: http://www.pbo.co.uk/news/uk-government-to-maintai...
BUT this is subject to the full rate of duty as per normal road diesel.
Red diesel at the rebated rate can be used in pleasure/leisure boats for heating.
The problem is that in years past pleasure/leisure boats were allowed to use red diesel for propulsion at the rebated rate.
This was changed by an EU ruling.
It was decided that red could continue to be used for both purposes otherwise the marinas would need to install additional pumps and tanks to dispense white diesel and the boat would have to have two fuel tanks, one for propulsion fuel and one for heating fuel.
You might find this from 2014 of interest: http://www.pbo.co.uk/news/uk-government-to-maintai...
Edited by paintman on Saturday 29th July 19:29
If your talking about the Norfolk Broads by any chance, the law changed at least a couple of years ago that the boatyard (and you) gets taxed roughly the same as the road vehicles now. I presume any boatyard in the uk is the same.
There's a percentage split you can use if you have diesel heating on board. I can't remember what it is.
There's a percentage split you can use if you have diesel heating on board. I can't remember what it is.
Edited by rob_benton on Sunday 30th July 20:50
rob_benton said:
If your talking about the Norfolk Broads by any chance, the law changed at least a couple of years ago that the boatyard (and you) gets taxed roughly the same as the road vehicles now. I presume any boatyard in the uk is the same.
There's a percentage split you can use if you have diesel heating on board. I can't remember what it is.
Whatever you want to declare it at. Normally boatyards go for a 60/40 split as normally the engine will heat hot water for domestic use as well but you can declare what you want and no-one realistically is going to check. Our government was against the tax on diesel for marine use hence the kind of compromise declaration system we have now. The EU ruling was meant really for the large continental barges but they had to cover all inland waterway craft in every EU country.There's a percentage split you can use if you have diesel heating on board. I can't remember what it is.
Edited by rob_benton on Sunday 30th July 20:50
Edited by spitfire-ian on Monday 31st July 09:47
CaptainMorgan said:
Surely if you didn't like the price offered, fill it up elsewhere offering it for the 47ppl you suggested then when you arrive back the guy at the marina puts in £5 worth or whatever. Sorted?!
All very well if you know what the price would be before actually returning the boat - hadn't even crossed my mind until I got bak to the boatyard.....Anyway, it seems other posters have clarified the legal situation, & my understanding of fuel duty was somewhat out of date. As mentioned, it seems odd to me that they would even bother with red diesel, as it could confuse old gits like me.
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