'Police Purposes' - a hypothetical question
Discussion
It's hypothetical question time everyone!
A few weeks ago I was in Tesco at around 11pm, and there were a bunch of council types buying alcohol and being generally antisocial. As I returned to my car, I noticed about 8 of them all heading towards a Mk5 Fiesta. In the end 2 were in the boot and 2 were in the rear footwells, and away they went. I could not in good conscience do nothing, especially as I saw the front passenger hand the driver (who had stayed in the car) a bottle. So, I had the missus call the police and I was going to follow them until a police car found us.
However, they sodded off at quite a speed before we'd even got our seatbelts on so there was no way I was finding them. We drove about for a bit to try and find them (what exciting lives we have eh?) to no avail.
I don't know if the police found them (they were taking it seriously because of the potentially drunk driver) or not but the situation got me thinking...
Say I had managed to stay behind them, and was on the phone to the police giving updates on their location; if I am not mistaken the law regarding police exemptions simply states that a vehicle being used 'for police purposes' can claim exemptions - it doesn't have to be a police vehicle or police officer driving. Therefore, in this hypothetical situation, in the eyes of the law was my vehicle being used for police purposes and could I therefore have exceeded the speed limit/treated a red light as a give way/gone to the right of a keep left without fear of repercussions? This is, of course, assuming that these actions would have been carried out in a safe manner etc.
My guess would be that there's a law hidden somewhere stating that random members of the public cannot claim exemptions but I leave it over to you lovely people to discuss...
A few weeks ago I was in Tesco at around 11pm, and there were a bunch of council types buying alcohol and being generally antisocial. As I returned to my car, I noticed about 8 of them all heading towards a Mk5 Fiesta. In the end 2 were in the boot and 2 were in the rear footwells, and away they went. I could not in good conscience do nothing, especially as I saw the front passenger hand the driver (who had stayed in the car) a bottle. So, I had the missus call the police and I was going to follow them until a police car found us.
However, they sodded off at quite a speed before we'd even got our seatbelts on so there was no way I was finding them. We drove about for a bit to try and find them (what exciting lives we have eh?) to no avail.
I don't know if the police found them (they were taking it seriously because of the potentially drunk driver) or not but the situation got me thinking...
Say I had managed to stay behind them, and was on the phone to the police giving updates on their location; if I am not mistaken the law regarding police exemptions simply states that a vehicle being used 'for police purposes' can claim exemptions - it doesn't have to be a police vehicle or police officer driving. Therefore, in this hypothetical situation, in the eyes of the law was my vehicle being used for police purposes and could I therefore have exceeded the speed limit/treated a red light as a give way/gone to the right of a keep left without fear of repercussions? This is, of course, assuming that these actions would have been carried out in a safe manner etc.
My guess would be that there's a law hidden somewhere stating that random members of the public cannot claim exemptions but I leave it over to you lovely people to discuss...
TooMany2cvs said:
Jbeale96 said:
Therefore, in this hypothetical situation, in the eyes of the law was my vehicle being used for police purposes
No.It's ok to use phone when driving if you're "in an emergency and it’s unsafe or impractical to stop"
linky:
https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-drivin...
If you're using phone to assist police in tracking a (suspected) drunk driver, then this sounds like a reasonable usage - although it would be better for your passenger to do the talking.
darren9 said:
Afaik there is no exemption to using a phone for policing purposes.
If you're thinking of the use of radios then they're a point to point system which can be used by anyone while driving.
I would have used Bluetooth/had the passenger do the talking - sorry I probably should have been clearer, I'm talking about the speed/red light/keep left exemptions.If you're thinking of the use of radios then they're a point to point system which can be used by anyone while driving.
tigger1 said:
It's ok to use phone when driving if you're "in an emergency and it’s unsafe or impractical to stop"
linky:
https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-drivin...
If you're using phone to assist police in tracking a (suspected) drunk driver, then this sounds like a reasonable usage - although it would be better for your passenger to do the talking.
linky:
https://www.gov.uk/using-mobile-phones-when-drivin...
If you're using phone to assist police in tracking a (suspected) drunk driver, then this sounds like a reasonable usage - although it would be better for your passenger to do the talking.
The actual legislation said:
(5) A person does not contravene a provision of this regulation if, at the time of the alleged contravention—
(a)he is using the telephone or other device to call the police, fire, ambulance or other emergency service on 112 or 999;
(b)he is acting in response to a genuine emergency; and
(c)it is unsafe or impracticable for him to cease driving in order to make the call (or, in the case of an alleged contravention of paragraph (3)(b), for the provisional licence holder to cease driving while the call was being made).
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2003/2695/regul...(a)he is using the telephone or other device to call the police, fire, ambulance or other emergency service on 112 or 999;
(b)he is acting in response to a genuine emergency; and
(c)it is unsafe or impracticable for him to cease driving in order to make the call (or, in the case of an alleged contravention of paragraph (3)(b), for the provisional licence holder to cease driving while the call was being made).
Let's look at those three, all of which have to be "yes" for the phone use to be legal:
a - yes.
b - debatable.
c - hardly.
That 999 call could easily have been made by the passenger, or the OP could have given all the details of the car before driving off - it's only because the OP's decided to play vigilante that this is even a question.
B'sides, that's a different thing entirely from whether the car is being used for "police purposes". That's easily answered. Did the 999 operator request specifically that the OP followed the other car, no matter what? No, they didn't, did they?
TooMany2cvs said:
That 999 call could easily have been made by the passenger, or the OP could have given all the details of the car before driving off - it's only because the OP's decided to play vigilante that this is even a question.
Eh? During the ACTUAL event, the passenger did make the call. The use of a phone is not even a question here, I have Bluetooth. And you seem to be implying that "playing vigilante" (reporting a potentially drunk driver driving 8 people in a car with only 5 seats) is a bad thing....TooMany2cvs said:
B'sides, that's a different thing entirely from whether the car is being used for "police purposes". That's easily answered. Did the 999 operator request specifically that the OP followed the other car, no matter what? No, they didn't, did they?
As the 'police purposes'/exemption question is PURELY HYPOTHETICAL we will never know what the hypothetical operator would say. My passenger did not offer to them that we could follow, nor did I have any intention of breaking traffic laws to catch back up to them. I also did not break any traffic laws when I drove about for a bit to see if I could see where they went. I was simply curious as to what would happen if somebody DID decide to break certain traffic laws in this scenario. You could have answered that question without taking everything so literally from your moral high ground.Jbeale96 said:
TooMany2cvs said:
That 999 call could easily have been made by the passenger, or the OP could have given all the details of the car before driving off - it's only because the OP's decided to play vigilante that this is even a question.
Eh? During the ACTUAL event, the passenger did make the call. The use of a phone is not even a question herejbeale96 said:
And you seem to be implying that "playing vigilante" (reporting a potentially drunk driver driving 8 people in a car with only 5 seats) is a bad thing....
Reporting it is not the same as chasing it through red lights above the speed limit. Reporting it is not playing vigilante, but channelling your inner traffic cop is.TooMany2cvs said:
Jbeale96 said:
TooMany2cvs said:
That 999 call could easily have been made by the passenger, or the OP could have given all the details of the car before driving off - it's only because the OP's decided to play vigilante that this is even a question.
Eh? During the ACTUAL event, the passenger did make the call. The use of a phone is not even a question hereTooMany2cvs said:
jbeale96 said:
And you seem to be implying that "playing vigilante" (reporting a potentially drunk driver driving 8 people in a car with only 5 seats) is a bad thing....
Reporting it is not the same as chasing it through red lights above the speed limit. Reporting it is not playing vigilante, but channelling your inner traffic cop is.Jbeale96 said:
anonymous said:
[redacted]
That's the kind of thing I was after, thank you. Does make sense given the length of training that the police go through - for a civilian to be able to do the same things as them sans training would be daft, emergency or not. WinstonWolf said:
It's a while ago now but I followed a hit and run driver and called in on 999, I continually reported speeds (not lawful but not excessive), traffic volume and directions to the call handler who talked a car in to intercept. Resulted in an arrest and a prosecution.
That's unfortunate, but I still think you were in the right. 
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