Tooled up or armed to the teeth
Discussion
I was surveying a ground floor flat a while back. It had a bad dampness problem and required access below the floorboards . This being the case the tools I chose to carry out the work were two wide chisels, a flat-bar and a lump hammer.
Glasgow being Glasgow I was forced to park a good couple of streets from site and make my way on foot. Rather than carry a full toolbox I grabbed what I needed and was on my way.
On route I found myself walking towards two police officers, a young lad and an older woman.
Am pretty sure she wouldn't have bothered having a word bearing in mind I was looking the part in clumpy workbooks, trousers with flappy pickets and kneepads, a polo shirt with the company logo on the tit and a hi-viz. Problem was she was doing that plod mind reading thing were she saw see look at her and knew I was thinking "I really shouldn't be walking along a busy pavement with a flat-bar and two chisels in one hand and a lump hammer in the other.
She was nice enough: asked if I thought it reasonable to be in such a busy place carrying a pile of objects reasonably seen as offensive weapons. I looked sheepish, contrite and shook my head. She then suggested I carry my tools in a tool box and looking even more contrite and sheepish I explained in a honest to the point of stupidity moment I had just pulled my kit out of a box to save me carrying it.
I was sent on my way with a "put some thought into your actions and don't let me see you walking about with tools like that on show again".
Forgot about it but saw the same police woman the other day while walking to a house carrying my toolbox. Got a wee smile and nod of approval.
I was under the impression that anyone with good reason could carry knives crowbar hammers etc but I'm not daft enough to fail an attitude test whilst tooled up in order to see the consequences.
We're would I stand legally if I did?
Glasgow being Glasgow I was forced to park a good couple of streets from site and make my way on foot. Rather than carry a full toolbox I grabbed what I needed and was on my way.
On route I found myself walking towards two police officers, a young lad and an older woman.
Am pretty sure she wouldn't have bothered having a word bearing in mind I was looking the part in clumpy workbooks, trousers with flappy pickets and kneepads, a polo shirt with the company logo on the tit and a hi-viz. Problem was she was doing that plod mind reading thing were she saw see look at her and knew I was thinking "I really shouldn't be walking along a busy pavement with a flat-bar and two chisels in one hand and a lump hammer in the other.
She was nice enough: asked if I thought it reasonable to be in such a busy place carrying a pile of objects reasonably seen as offensive weapons. I looked sheepish, contrite and shook my head. She then suggested I carry my tools in a tool box and looking even more contrite and sheepish I explained in a honest to the point of stupidity moment I had just pulled my kit out of a box to save me carrying it.
I was sent on my way with a "put some thought into your actions and don't let me see you walking about with tools like that on show again".
Forgot about it but saw the same police woman the other day while walking to a house carrying my toolbox. Got a wee smile and nod of approval.
I was under the impression that anyone with good reason could carry knives crowbar hammers etc but I'm not daft enough to fail an attitude test whilst tooled up in order to see the consequences.
We're would I stand legally if I did?
The problem is that "good reason" is somewhat open to interpretation, and by them, not you.
I'm of the opinion that "because I woke up this morning and decided to" is a perfectly good reason for anything I'm carrying, and until I do something naughty with it, it's no-one else's business, but that doesn't really fly as far as the law's concerned.
I'm of the opinion that "because I woke up this morning and decided to" is a perfectly good reason for anything I'm carrying, and until I do something naughty with it, it's no-one else's business, but that doesn't really fly as far as the law's concerned.
Tannedbaldhead said:
She was nice enough: asked if I thought it reasonable to be in such a busy place carrying a pile of objects reasonably seen as offensive weapons.
My answer would have been very clear: "Yes, I think it's perfectly reasonable to carry work tools, whilst at work, from my work vehicle to my work".
If she wanted to take it further that's absolutely fine. I would have liked to have seen the look on her colleagues faces when she had to explain the fact that she had just arrested you for carrying work tools whilst you were at work.
She would have ended up in far more trouble than you. I am in no doubt about that.
ked for it. I’d have just told her I was at work. Lord Marylebone said:
My answer would have been very clear:
"Yes, I think it's perfectly reasonable to carry work tools, whilst at work, from my work vehicle to my work".
If she wanted to take it further that's absolutely fine. I would have liked to have seen the look on her colleagues faces when she had to explain the fact that she had just arrested you for carrying work tools whilst you were at work.
She would have ended up in far more trouble than you. I am in no doubt about that.
I think you may have missed her point. She clearly wasn't saying the carrying of tools when working is wrong she was clearly suggesting that someone vulnerable may consider someone else walking down the street with a couple of chisels and a hammer to appear threatening. I'm also guessing she's attended plenty of calls from concerned members of the public in the past which have transpired to be nothing more than someone innocently going about their business which had they used a bit of forethought and had their tools in a box could have been prevented. She's merely asking for a member of the public to apply a little common sense to prevent any unnecessary worry and any wasted police time dealing with it."Yes, I think it's perfectly reasonable to carry work tools, whilst at work, from my work vehicle to my work".
If she wanted to take it further that's absolutely fine. I would have liked to have seen the look on her colleagues faces when she had to explain the fact that she had just arrested you for carrying work tools whilst you were at work.
She would have ended up in far more trouble than you. I am in no doubt about that.
cootuk said:
I accompanied a friend to Court as they needed some paperwork. As we were coming straight off the livery yard, I forgot I had my locking knife on me (used for cutting open bales). Of course the frisk search at the entrance found it, much to my embarasment.
So you attended court in your ''mucking out'' clothes?The smell alone would probably warrant a contempt of court charge!
djc206 said:
Lord Marylebone said:
My answer would have been very clear:
"Yes, I think it's perfectly reasonable to carry work tools, whilst at work, from my work vehicle to my work".
If she wanted to take it further that's absolutely fine. I would have liked to have seen the look on her colleagues faces when she had to explain the fact that she had just arrested you for carrying work tools whilst you were at work.
She would have ended up in far more trouble than you. I am in no doubt about that.
I think you may have missed her point. She clearly wasn't saying the carrying of tools when working is wrong she was clearly suggesting that someone vulnerable may consider someone else walking down the street with a couple of chisels and a hammer to appear threatening. I'm also guessing she's attended plenty of calls from concerned members of the public in the past which have transpired to be nothing more than someone innocently going about their business which had they used a bit of forethought and had their tools in a box could have been prevented. She's merely asking for a member of the public to apply a little common sense to prevent any unnecessary worry and any wasted police time dealing with it."Yes, I think it's perfectly reasonable to carry work tools, whilst at work, from my work vehicle to my work".
If she wanted to take it further that's absolutely fine. I would have liked to have seen the look on her colleagues faces when she had to explain the fact that she had just arrested you for carrying work tools whilst you were at work.
She would have ended up in far more trouble than you. I am in no doubt about that.
Antony Moxey said:
djc206 said:
Lord Marylebone said:
My answer would have been very clear:
"Yes, I think it's perfectly reasonable to carry work tools, whilst at work, from my work vehicle to my work".
If she wanted to take it further that's absolutely fine. I would have liked to have seen the look on her colleagues faces when she had to explain the fact that she had just arrested you for carrying work tools whilst you were at work.
She would have ended up in far more trouble than you. I am in no doubt about that.
I think you may have missed her point. She clearly wasn't saying the carrying of tools when working is wrong she was clearly suggesting that someone vulnerable may consider someone else walking down the street with a couple of chisels and a hammer to appear threatening. I'm also guessing she's attended plenty of calls from concerned members of the public in the past which have transpired to be nothing more than someone innocently going about their business which had they used a bit of forethought and had their tools in a box could have been prevented. She's merely asking for a member of the public to apply a little common sense to prevent any unnecessary worry and any wasted police time dealing with it."Yes, I think it's perfectly reasonable to carry work tools, whilst at work, from my work vehicle to my work".
If she wanted to take it further that's absolutely fine. I would have liked to have seen the look on her colleagues faces when she had to explain the fact that she had just arrested you for carrying work tools whilst you were at work.
She would have ended up in far more trouble than you. I am in no doubt about that.
But I agree with the point about the public being concerned. In my opinion if a citizen phoned the police over someone in work clothes carrying work tools, then they need a call from an officer informing them that 'wasting police time' is a real thing.
I've had similar a couple of times , most memorable was working on a university building directly opposite the police station in Durham .
We were working on the roof but needed to carry tools and ladders in through the automatic front doors open to the general public . A couple of coppers arrived and said they'd had reports of someone breaking in through the roof ! I mentioned if I'd really wanted to break in I could just walk through the front door , it would even open automatically for me , as they just had ! Cue a couple of red faced policemen walking away with their tails between their legs .
Common sense goes a long way sometimes but this was before 911!
Terrorism has worked better than most think .
We were working on the roof but needed to carry tools and ladders in through the automatic front doors open to the general public . A couple of coppers arrived and said they'd had reports of someone breaking in through the roof ! I mentioned if I'd really wanted to break in I could just walk through the front door , it would even open automatically for me , as they just had ! Cue a couple of red faced policemen walking away with their tails between their legs .
Common sense goes a long way sometimes but this was before 911!
Terrorism has worked better than most think .
Some years ago my mother parked up in the town centre to pick up some shopping, having already been to SCATS to buy a couple of things for the farm.
She got back to her car to find a policeman hanging around who suggested she might not want to leave boxes of syringes and needles in full view on the back seat
She got back to her car to find a policeman hanging around who suggested she might not want to leave boxes of syringes and needles in full view on the back seat
Has someone deleted a load of text from the original post?
I seem to be missing the part where the two officers did anything other than ask some sensible questions to assess if the op was actually a true workman on his way to a job.
Maybe, if he HAD been tasered and handcuffed, or rodgered with a warrant card during the exchange of words, I could emphasise with some of the outraged responses on here.
Antony Moxey said:
without the need for the third degree.
Steady on. All she asked was whether it was wise to be carrying the tools openly and that it might be an idea to have them in a tool box. She didn't warn or reprimand me in any way and was pleasant and polite. Hardly an example of the third degree. Oddly enough, she was so nice about it I decided to carry odd tools in a little mini toolbox from then on as I'd be embarrassed if she caught me again.
The little nod and smile she gave me months later when she she clocked me, box in hand kinda made it worth while.
Just goes to show you don't need to be 7 foot 2 and a nasty bugger to be a good polis.
So the next time a concerned member of the public reports a bloke dressed like a workman carrying a box or bag. Couldn’t see what was in it, could have been anything, he might be a terrorist or off on the rob.
Whatever she said, however she said it, it was completely unnecessary. If you were inclined to do something criminal did she think you’d own up and tell her it was a fair cop guv? I don’t see any difference in a workman dressed as a workman carrying a few tools as opposed to carrying a toolbox or tool bag.
Whatever she said, however she said it, it was completely unnecessary. If you were inclined to do something criminal did she think you’d own up and tell her it was a fair cop guv? I don’t see any difference in a workman dressed as a workman carrying a few tools as opposed to carrying a toolbox or tool bag.
The law is pretty clear and has been the same for many years: http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/offensive_weapo...
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