Protecting my property from Right of Access
Discussion
I've been searching high and low for advice on this (and am still waiting to hear back from my union with their offering of 'citizen's advice'), but cannot find anything even remotely related.
I moved into my house little over two years ago. The wife and I are really good friends with the neighbours either side. However, long before we moved in, one set of neighbours paved half their front garden for parking. However, they drive across the tail end of our drive to park on their extended bit. That means when have visitors or make use of the third space in our in-line driveway, it either blocks them in or they can't access that bit of their drive.
The properties are 10 years old and they probably had the work done circa 8 years ago. Now, I believe after 12 years of proving continuous use, they can claim right of access and we lose that land?
Now, the wife and I don't mind this arrangement continuing but we need to put in place something to protect our property after these 12 years. It's not as simple as erecting a fence as there just isn't the space. Plus we want to remain friends with our neighbours. In conversation, it's become apparent that the neighbours had their driveway extended not realising they'd be using our land to access it (they thought it was shared access but the title deeds clearly show our boundaries).
As I say, happy for the arrangements to continue for now but want to protect our property and land from becoming anyone's right of access. How do we go about it and how much would it cost? And do I have to foot the bill for it?
I've attached a crappy mock up of the boundaries. The red outline is legally my property. A is their extended driveway bit, and B is their tree that gets in their way.
I moved into my house little over two years ago. The wife and I are really good friends with the neighbours either side. However, long before we moved in, one set of neighbours paved half their front garden for parking. However, they drive across the tail end of our drive to park on their extended bit. That means when have visitors or make use of the third space in our in-line driveway, it either blocks them in or they can't access that bit of their drive.
The properties are 10 years old and they probably had the work done circa 8 years ago. Now, I believe after 12 years of proving continuous use, they can claim right of access and we lose that land?
Now, the wife and I don't mind this arrangement continuing but we need to put in place something to protect our property after these 12 years. It's not as simple as erecting a fence as there just isn't the space. Plus we want to remain friends with our neighbours. In conversation, it's become apparent that the neighbours had their driveway extended not realising they'd be using our land to access it (they thought it was shared access but the title deeds clearly show our boundaries).
As I say, happy for the arrangements to continue for now but want to protect our property and land from becoming anyone's right of access. How do we go about it and how much would it cost? And do I have to foot the bill for it?
I've attached a crappy mock up of the boundaries. The red outline is legally my property. A is their extended driveway bit, and B is their tree that gets in their way.
2 part solution
- first get the boundries on paper so you know perfectly well what is and isnt your land, try and make amicable attempt to talk it through with the persons you are having an issue with
- second, envoke a written "removal of implied right of access" google this and you will easily find template documents, this has to be on show in plain sight on your property, and send a letter to interested parties you wish to stop from using the land you have right to revoke (known by the boundires on paper part of this 2 step)
the letter must state your intent to revoke any implied right of access, be it maybe you dont have a locked gate, this allows anyone to assume a right to walk down your drive, or in this case drive a car across it - when you have a clealy visible sign and you have revoked access by letter OR VERBAL then you have a legal standing to call the police and take action to remove said persons or property under tresspass laws in the UK (england and wales) you can find more info onm this on the .gov legistlation website
hope this helps, best solution is always chat to them first and use legal force as a backup plan, speak to them and let them know you are revoking the right of implied access to your land, get a written agreement between yourself and those wanting to cross your land that you allow them temporary access to their proerty but reserve any rights to revoke that at any time, also have in the agreement that at any point where thier property may go up for sale that this agreement is passed along to the potential buyers so it is clear about what land is yours and thiers
- first get the boundries on paper so you know perfectly well what is and isnt your land, try and make amicable attempt to talk it through with the persons you are having an issue with
- second, envoke a written "removal of implied right of access" google this and you will easily find template documents, this has to be on show in plain sight on your property, and send a letter to interested parties you wish to stop from using the land you have right to revoke (known by the boundires on paper part of this 2 step)
the letter must state your intent to revoke any implied right of access, be it maybe you dont have a locked gate, this allows anyone to assume a right to walk down your drive, or in this case drive a car across it - when you have a clealy visible sign and you have revoked access by letter OR VERBAL then you have a legal standing to call the police and take action to remove said persons or property under tresspass laws in the UK (england and wales) you can find more info onm this on the .gov legistlation website
hope this helps, best solution is always chat to them first and use legal force as a backup plan, speak to them and let them know you are revoking the right of implied access to your land, get a written agreement between yourself and those wanting to cross your land that you allow them temporary access to their proerty but reserve any rights to revoke that at any time, also have in the agreement that at any point where thier property may go up for sale that this agreement is passed along to the potential buyers so it is clear about what land is yours and thiers
Edited by kewlnsol on Thursday 19th October 01:02
Thanks for your detailed response. However, I'm keen to stress I'm fine for things to continue as they are but avoid any complications should either of us sell up and move. I just want it so the right of access is never gained and it remains just a personal agreement between us as neighbours.
The first thing that you should do is check the property deeds for both your and the neighbours properties, and check what easements and/or covenants already exist.
You may own the land bordered in red, but there could already be a right of access over your land to their property.
Secondly, whatever agreement you come to with the neighbours, make sure that it is in writting, and try to get it regsitered at the Land Registry against both your deeds, so that there is no future misunderstadnings when either of the properties are sold.
Thirdly, seek professional advice, to ensure that you do things in the correct order and timescales to prevent the neighbours from obtaining a right of access by prescription.
With costs, you might want to suggest that your neighbours pick up the legal costs for you both, as consideration for them being allowed to continue using your land for their access.
You may own the land bordered in red, but there could already be a right of access over your land to their property.
Secondly, whatever agreement you come to with the neighbours, make sure that it is in writting, and try to get it regsitered at the Land Registry against both your deeds, so that there is no future misunderstadnings when either of the properties are sold.
Thirdly, seek professional advice, to ensure that you do things in the correct order and timescales to prevent the neighbours from obtaining a right of access by prescription.
With costs, you might want to suggest that your neighbours pick up the legal costs for you both, as consideration for them being allowed to continue using your land for their access.
Thank you very much for your advice. I sincerely appreciate it.
Mandat said:
You may own the land bordered in red, but there could already be a right of access over your land to their property.
I've checked and there is definitely no right of access already. It's quite clear cut in that sense. They've paved half their front garden to make extra parking without checking boundaries first. I will sit down and chat to my neighbour to see exactly what his legal documentation states though.I think this is a tricky one, not just from the legal perspective, which I know little about unlike other posters who've covered that, but also in how future purchasers would perceive it.
To a prospective buyer of your property it still 'appears' that the neighbour's use a shared driveway to access their extra parking space. Obviously this can be cleared up once you have a legal remedy in place but it's going to be perceived as a negative: to the viewer either there's effectively a loss of a parking space with your property or the prospect of conflict with the neighbour in order to gain back permanent use of it. That means either losing the value of your third parking space, or having buyers who do want to make use of the third space put off by the hassle.
If the neighbour was to sell, regardless of how clear the legalities are described and documented, you still face the prospect of conflict with a new occupant over their possibly unreasonable use of the extra space, given that, to be quite honest, many people are just entitled, cheeky t
ts.
Not an easy one, OP...
To a prospective buyer of your property it still 'appears' that the neighbour's use a shared driveway to access their extra parking space. Obviously this can be cleared up once you have a legal remedy in place but it's going to be perceived as a negative: to the viewer either there's effectively a loss of a parking space with your property or the prospect of conflict with the neighbour in order to gain back permanent use of it. That means either losing the value of your third parking space, or having buyers who do want to make use of the third space put off by the hassle.
If the neighbour was to sell, regardless of how clear the legalities are described and documented, you still face the prospect of conflict with a new occupant over their possibly unreasonable use of the extra space, given that, to be quite honest, many people are just entitled, cheeky t
ts.Not an easy one, OP...
XLR Motorsport said:
Now, I believe after 12 years of proving continuous use, they can claim right of access and we lose that land?
Only if they can prove uncontested exclusive use - which, obviously, they can't, because you use it, too.XLR Motorsport said:
It's not as simple as erecting a fence as there just isn't the space.
This sounds like it's the cause of your problem, then. If you can't put a fence there, because it'd get in the way, then how do you expect them NOT to use that bit of your drive? Or vice-versa...?What you could do is re-pave your drive, edging it with kerbs that would definitely be noticeable to drive over. But, again, it looks like that would also cause the same problem (but less so) than the fence. You may just need to accept that your neighbours need to drive over your land...
Someone odious WILL be along at some point in this thread to accuse you of curtain twitching/third world problems etc, but I think you are correct in ensuring these neighbours don't invoke some future legal challenge.
The written response suggested previously is the most efficient option as it cannot be misunderstood.
Your problem however, will be avoiding a negative response.
My suggestion would be to start the process with an announcement, that you are expecting relatives to be staying for a number of days over xmas and (some of) the extra vehicles will need to park nose-to-tail on your drive.
If you can politely add into the conversation that it may block their last space and you would rather inform them now, than at the time when it becomes a problem for them.
You should get an immediate idea of their 'feelings' on the right of access.
You can then follow up with the legal letter and/or copy of the land registry documents as you see fit.
The written response suggested previously is the most efficient option as it cannot be misunderstood.
Your problem however, will be avoiding a negative response.
My suggestion would be to start the process with an announcement, that you are expecting relatives to be staying for a number of days over xmas and (some of) the extra vehicles will need to park nose-to-tail on your drive.
If you can politely add into the conversation that it may block their last space and you would rather inform them now, than at the time when it becomes a problem for them.
You should get an immediate idea of their 'feelings' on the right of access.
You can then follow up with the legal letter and/or copy of the land registry documents as you see fit.
Kuji said:
My suggestion would be to start the process with an announcement, that you are expecting relatives to be staying for a number of days over xmas and (some of) the extra vehicles will need to park nose-to-tail on your drive.
If you can politely add into the conversation that it may block their last space and you would rather inform them now, than at the time when it becomes a problem for them.
I was going to suggest something similar. Either the neighbours have a right of way or they don't. If they think they have a right of way but they don't then you have a problem. Had a very similar issue with neighbour - pointing out the covenants in the title deeds wasn't enough - I had to demonstrate it to them - and Google Maps comes in handy (if the van passes your road) as it is 'evidence' of the situation.If you can politely add into the conversation that it may block their last space and you would rather inform them now, than at the time when it becomes a problem for them.
Edited by fido on Thursday 19th October 09:15
TooMany2cvs said:
This sounds like it's the cause of your problem, then. If you can't put a fence there, because it'd get in the way, then how do you expect them NOT to use that bit of your drive? Or vice-versa...?
I think you would simply expect them not to use that part of their drive if they can't get onto it... presumably if they can get the first car in, but not the second they could move their cars? If they can't do that then they have no legal right to get a car onto that part of their drive and their having extended it is irrelevant as outside dropping a car on by helicopter they can't reach it!TooMany2cvs said:
What you could do is re-pave your drive, edging it with kerbs that would definitely be noticeable to drive over. But, again, it looks like that would also cause the same problem (but less so) than the fence. You may just need to accept that your neighbours need to drive over your land...
I think that there is the gestation of a good idea in here - whether paint / bricks or something to show the edge of the drive - make it visually clear. Then look into permissive rights of access - make it clear in a nice way to your neighbour that you are formalising things in case they ever move and someone else moves in - that you are happy for them to still have access where possible, but you want it put on a more formal basis as a permissive right... logically otherwise it could reduce value on your property...XLR Motorsport said:
Now, I believe after 12 years of proving continuous use, they can claim right of access and we lose that land?
Not sure that's quite right.You can register possessory title on a piece of land that you are in adverse possession of. Effectively you're squatting on the land, claiming it to be yours but do not have absolute title for it - it isn't registered in your name, and you don't have the deeds.
Not sure what the rules are if the land your claiming is already registered in someone else's name (eg. if the owner can't be traced.)
Twelve years after you register possessory title, you can apply to the land registry to convert that to title absolute - the land is registered in your name and becomes yours.
In the intervening twelve years, anyone can challenge your possessory title.
I think a land grab is unlikely to happen here.
What is likely is that the neighbour claims a right of way over your land. I think it's twenty years continuous use for right of access rather than twelve and I'm not sure if there are differing rules for vehicular access and pedestrian access.
I think your best option is probably to go for some kind of permissive access agreement. Deny access for one day per year or charge a stupidly low access fee. I think that you just need to do something to prove that you're controlling and restricting access to your land.
The conversation with the neighbour should be easy, "Understand what you've done and don't have a problem with it. I don't want to stop you using your drive, but I can't allow a right of way to be established on my land. So unfortunately I have to do this..."
I'd also ensure that the boundary was clear. Curbstones, posts, or even a painted line should do it.
Honestly though I think you need a lawyer for this. A freebee consultation should tell you what you need to know.
It would help if you could mark the neighbours boundary as well. You talk about an extended driveway - where is their 'normal' driveway and how do they access the road?
I'd be talking to a solicitor. Some of the info in this thread is incorrect.
The problem is that this has been going on for years - getting people to accept that they are in the wrong and to stop using your drive isn't going to go well from a relationship point of view.
I'd be talking to a solicitor. Some of the info in this thread is incorrect.
The problem is that this has been going on for years - getting people to accept that they are in the wrong and to stop using your drive isn't going to go well from a relationship point of view.
One of wisest of all sayings is that good fences make good neighbours.
The advice above may well be true, but you need to get it checked out by your solicitor. Surely the searches before you bought should have spotted this, though perhaps it is not normal for them to leave their office and visit the site.
The worst of all worlds would be to initiate a feud in such a tight local community, and it seems that you are being careful about this. So why not progress mutually under the axiom that 'we get on all right and would never fall out, but if you or I move on the new owners could be more difficult to talk to - ' it's best clarified at this stage.
And just a thought, sometimes outside shops the owners mark their boundary by brass studs set into the paving. Once you are very sure of your boundary, would this help?
The advice above may well be true, but you need to get it checked out by your solicitor. Surely the searches before you bought should have spotted this, though perhaps it is not normal for them to leave their office and visit the site.
The worst of all worlds would be to initiate a feud in such a tight local community, and it seems that you are being careful about this. So why not progress mutually under the axiom that 'we get on all right and would never fall out, but if you or I move on the new owners could be more difficult to talk to - ' it's best clarified at this stage.
And just a thought, sometimes outside shops the owners mark their boundary by brass studs set into the paving. Once you are very sure of your boundary, would this help?
surely your neighbour can have no complaint if you use your drive in a manner to suit yourself?
It's one thing to be neighbourly and all get on, but as it stands the situation isn't equitable.
I'd be parking there a few times and seeing if they can come up with a solution to something that is, after all, their problem.
If they are reasonable they won't kick off.
It's one thing to be neighbourly and all get on, but as it stands the situation isn't equitable.
I'd be parking there a few times and seeing if they can come up with a solution to something that is, after all, their problem.
If they are reasonable they won't kick off.
Thanks for all the advice. It's greatly appreciated!
This is merely something I need to protect from anyone in the future disputing my land, most likely in the event of one of us moving out and new residents disputing this. Nothing physical needs doing and no arrangements need changing as it stands between us friends and neighbours.
So I'm erring on the side of a friendly, mutual chat to establish who understands what, then having it signed, sealed and delivered to prevent disputes with future generations.
Here's the Street View looking at the houses from the road. My house is in the far corner. Their house is on the right and has a one-car Tarmac'd driveway shared with their neighbour on their right. You can see where they've cut away and block paved. My driveway and land starts where the edge of their original driveway is, and that is shared with my neighbour to the left of the picture (who had the Fiesta). I hope this makes more sense. With a car parked head-on in front of their front door, they are effectively using my driveway to get round that tree and onto their paved bit.
This is merely something I need to protect from anyone in the future disputing my land, most likely in the event of one of us moving out and new residents disputing this. Nothing physical needs doing and no arrangements need changing as it stands between us friends and neighbours.
So I'm erring on the side of a friendly, mutual chat to establish who understands what, then having it signed, sealed and delivered to prevent disputes with future generations.
Here's the Street View looking at the houses from the road. My house is in the far corner. Their house is on the right and has a one-car Tarmac'd driveway shared with their neighbour on their right. You can see where they've cut away and block paved. My driveway and land starts where the edge of their original driveway is, and that is shared with my neighbour to the left of the picture (who had the Fiesta). I hope this makes more sense. With a car parked head-on in front of their front door, they are effectively using my driveway to get round that tree and onto their paved bit.
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