Is it time to ban mobile using drivers?
Discussion
As others have also observed, the threat of 6 points is not stopping drivers using their phones.
I've fallen fowl of the resulting poor driving on numerous occasions, on one occasion having to do an emergency stop on a roundabout, having been pulled out on by a stupid bint more concerned about using her phone than looking what she's doing.
Is it now time that such drivers should now have the threat of a 3 month ban instead? For illustration, as a business owner I could deal with 6 points, be it a pain, but three months off the road would be a serious threat to my business.
Would such a threat/punishment improve the situation?
I've fallen fowl of the resulting poor driving on numerous occasions, on one occasion having to do an emergency stop on a roundabout, having been pulled out on by a stupid bint more concerned about using her phone than looking what she's doing.
Is it now time that such drivers should now have the threat of a 3 month ban instead? For illustration, as a business owner I could deal with 6 points, be it a pain, but three months off the road would be a serious threat to my business.
Would such a threat/punishment improve the situation?
No, the whole mobile phone legislation is a stupid black and white offence in the first place that doesn't reflect the risks in reality.
Driving without due care and attention already encompassed mobile phone use, this carries up to 9 points and £2500 fine. There is also legal precedence that it can be bumped up to careless driving, which can be bumped up to death by careless driving when situation calls for it.
The problem with this legislation is that it must be proven that danger is being inflicted on other road users, the majority of mobile does fall within this, but all the stupid little things that they seem to want to 'scare' us about wouldn't really be a danger (using phone at red light, using phone to pay at drivethrough, using phone whilst parked up with engine on etc etc).
I think we should take the lack of change of attitudes to the black and white legislation as a failure of the legislation itself, and go back to using driving without due care to punish drivers who pose a danger on our roads, as this legislation better takes into account the real risks posed on our roads, such as fiddling with an infotainment system, or shouting at kids in a back seat, eating a bowl of cereal etc as being just as big a danger/distraction as using a mobile phone.
Driving without due care and attention already encompassed mobile phone use, this carries up to 9 points and £2500 fine. There is also legal precedence that it can be bumped up to careless driving, which can be bumped up to death by careless driving when situation calls for it.
The problem with this legislation is that it must be proven that danger is being inflicted on other road users, the majority of mobile does fall within this, but all the stupid little things that they seem to want to 'scare' us about wouldn't really be a danger (using phone at red light, using phone to pay at drivethrough, using phone whilst parked up with engine on etc etc).
I think we should take the lack of change of attitudes to the black and white legislation as a failure of the legislation itself, and go back to using driving without due care to punish drivers who pose a danger on our roads, as this legislation better takes into account the real risks posed on our roads, such as fiddling with an infotainment system, or shouting at kids in a back seat, eating a bowl of cereal etc as being just as big a danger/distraction as using a mobile phone.
Edited by caelite on Thursday 19th October 19:17
There was an "official" petition started a while back to demand that Parliament look at a ban but sign-up was woefully poor.
As someone who regularly commutes on a motorbike, I (a) have a vantage point where I can see just how many people are on their phones whilst driving and (b) have to take evasive action at least once or twice as a result on EVERY journey.
Why the police don't send a bike cop out to trundle down a line of traffic picking them off, I just don't know. It'd be like shooting fish.
As someone who regularly commutes on a motorbike, I (a) have a vantage point where I can see just how many people are on their phones whilst driving and (b) have to take evasive action at least once or twice as a result on EVERY journey.
Why the police don't send a bike cop out to trundle down a line of traffic picking them off, I just don't know. It'd be like shooting fish.
Edited by CAPP0 on Thursday 19th October 19:19
The way to deal with this is for the police to confiscate the phone, give the sim card back and throw the phone in the crusher.
The incovenience of having to set everything up on a new smartphone is probably punishment enough, having to explain what happened to a work phone will just add to the punishment.
The incovenience of having to set everything up on a new smartphone is probably punishment enough, having to explain what happened to a work phone will just add to the punishment.
caelite said:
No, the whole mobile phone legislation is a stupid black and white offence in the first place that doesn't reflect the risks in reality.
Driving without due care and attention already encompassed mobile phone use, this carries up to 9 points and £2500 fine. There is also legal precedence that it can be bumped up to careless driving, which can be bumped up to death by careless driving when situation calls for it.
The problem with this legislation is that it must be proven that danger is being inflicted on other road users, the majority of mobile does fall within this, but all the stupid little things that they seem to want to 'scare' us about wouldn't really be a danger (using phone at red light, using phone to pay at drivethrough, using phone whilst parked up with engine on etc etc).
I think we should take the lack of change of attitudes to the black and white legislation as a failure of the legislation itself, and go back to using driving without due care to punish drivers who pose a real risk on our roads,as this legislation better takes into account the real risks posed on our roads, such as fiddling with an infotainment system, or shouting at kids in a back seat, as being just as big a danger/distraction as using a mobile phone.
I agree, a kneejerk reaction to a problem because of the scale of the problem rather than the impact the problem actually has.Driving without due care and attention already encompassed mobile phone use, this carries up to 9 points and £2500 fine. There is also legal precedence that it can be bumped up to careless driving, which can be bumped up to death by careless driving when situation calls for it.
The problem with this legislation is that it must be proven that danger is being inflicted on other road users, the majority of mobile does fall within this, but all the stupid little things that they seem to want to 'scare' us about wouldn't really be a danger (using phone at red light, using phone to pay at drivethrough, using phone whilst parked up with engine on etc etc).
I think we should take the lack of change of attitudes to the black and white legislation as a failure of the legislation itself, and go back to using driving without due care to punish drivers who pose a real risk on our roads,as this legislation better takes into account the real risks posed on our roads, such as fiddling with an infotainment system, or shouting at kids in a back seat, as being just as big a danger/distraction as using a mobile phone.
It needs stopping but as you say, who really cares about someone checking a phone whilst stationary, it's the moving part that is the issue.
caelite said:
No, the whole mobile phone legislation is a stupid black and white offence in the first place that doesn't reflect the risks in reality.
Driving without due care and attention already encompassed mobile phone use, this carries up to 9 points and £2500 fine. There is also legal precedence that it can be bumped up to careless driving, which can be bumped up to death by careless driving when situation calls for it.
The problem with this legislation is that it must be proven that danger is being inflicted on other road users, the majority of mobile does fall within this, but all the stupid little things that they seem to want to 'scare' us about wouldn't really be a danger (using phone at red light, using phone to pay at drivethrough, using phone whilst parked up with engine on etc etc).
I think we should take the lack of change of attitudes to the black and white legislation as a failure of the legislation itself, and go back to using driving without due care to punish drivers who pose a danger on our roads, as this legislation better takes into account the real risks posed on our roads, such as fiddling with an infotainment system, or shouting at kids in a back seat, eating a bowl of cereal etc as being just as big a danger/distraction as using a mobile phone.
There are lots of things that aren't dangerous in themselves until something goes wrong, by which time it's too late.Driving without due care and attention already encompassed mobile phone use, this carries up to 9 points and £2500 fine. There is also legal precedence that it can be bumped up to careless driving, which can be bumped up to death by careless driving when situation calls for it.
The problem with this legislation is that it must be proven that danger is being inflicted on other road users, the majority of mobile does fall within this, but all the stupid little things that they seem to want to 'scare' us about wouldn't really be a danger (using phone at red light, using phone to pay at drivethrough, using phone whilst parked up with engine on etc etc).
I think we should take the lack of change of attitudes to the black and white legislation as a failure of the legislation itself, and go back to using driving without due care to punish drivers who pose a danger on our roads, as this legislation better takes into account the real risks posed on our roads, such as fiddling with an infotainment system, or shouting at kids in a back seat, eating a bowl of cereal etc as being just as big a danger/distraction as using a mobile phone.
Edited by caelite on Thursday 19th October 19:17
For example you could argue that driving on bald tyres, with no lights, seatbelt, or brakes is OK because until they actually kill or injure somebody it's not PROVEN to be dangerous...
Using mobile phones whilst driving increases risk.Having black and white legislation should make it clear to the hard of thinking that it's risky and carries a penalty.
Countdown said:
There are lots of things that aren't dangerous in themselves until something goes wrong, by which time it's too late.
For example you could argue that driving on bald tyres, with no lights, seatbelt, or brakes is OK because until they actually kill or injure somebody it's not PROVEN to be dangerous...
Using mobile phones whilst driving increases risk.Having black and white legislation should make it clear to the hard of thinking that it's risky and carries a penalty.
How is using your phone whilst parked up in any way dangerous, or checking for missed calls/messages whilst stationary on a red? It isn't, and as Caelite said, there were (and are still) laws in place for irresponsible driving that readily cover phone use.For example you could argue that driving on bald tyres, with no lights, seatbelt, or brakes is OK because until they actually kill or injure somebody it's not PROVEN to be dangerous...
Using mobile phones whilst driving increases risk.Having black and white legislation should make it clear to the hard of thinking that it's risky and carries a penalty.
If we're only interested in conviction numbers then the parallels with this and speeding are very convenient.
LJK Setright once stated that there should only be one driving offence, dangerous driving. This could encompass all offences, including using a phone. There would also be the opportunity to defend your corner if it wasn't dangerous - I was doing 90mph on an empty dry M1 in my brand new BMW, and it wasn't dangerous because.....
I think he had a point.
I think he had a point.
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
LJK Setright once stated that there should only be one driving offence, dangerous driving. This could encompass all offences, including using a phone. There would also be the opportunity to defend your corner if it wasn't dangerous - I was doing 90mph on an empty dry M1 in my brand new BMW, and it wasn't dangerous because.....
I think he had a point.
I think he was talking I think he had a point.
vonhosen said:
Fermit The Krog and Sexy Sarah said:
LJK Setright once stated that there should only be one driving offence, dangerous driving. This could encompass all offences, including using a phone. There would also be the opportunity to defend your corner if it wasn't dangerous - I was doing 90mph on an empty dry M1 in my brand new BMW, and it wasn't dangerous because.....
I think he had a point.
I think he was talking I think he had a point.
cmaguire said:
I agree, a kneejerk reaction to a problem because of the scale of the problem rather than the impact the problem actually has.
It needs stopping but as you say, who really cares about someone checking a phone whilst stationary, it's the moving part that is the issue.
I care when I'm 4 cars back and some tIt needs stopping but as you say, who really cares about someone checking a phone whilst stationary, it's the moving part that is the issue.
t is checking facebook when the light goes green so I have to sit there for another 2 minutes because I didn't get throughIMO the reason it was changed to 6 points is teenagers are addicted to their phones, combine that with a driving licence and a lot of people are going to die, tell them if they're caught with it once in the first 2 years they're back on the bus and it's the start of changing the next generations attitude to phones and driving.
just yesterday I was coming off the M1 NB to M62 EB, a car overtook me , I looked across and some old duffer had a pad on the steering wheel which he was writing on so it's not just phones, 20 years ago a mondeo overtook me in traffic, the guy had a clipboard on the wheel, he was signing the back of a credit card
wack said:
cmaguire said:
I agree, a kneejerk reaction to a problem because of the scale of the problem rather than the impact the problem actually has.
It needs stopping but as you say, who really cares about someone checking a phone whilst stationary, it's the moving part that is the issue.
I care when I'm 4 cars back and some tIt needs stopping but as you say, who really cares about someone checking a phone whilst stationary, it's the moving part that is the issue.
t is checking facebook when the light goes green so I have to sit there for another 2 minutes because I didn't get throughIMO the reason it was changed to 6 points is teenagers are addicted to their phones, combine that with a driving licence and a lot of people are going to die, tell them if they're caught with it once in the first 2 years they're back on the bus and it's the start of changing the next generations attitude to phones and driving.
just yesterday I was coming off the M1 NB to M62 EB, a car overtook me , I looked across and some old duffer had a pad on the steering wheel which he was writing on so it's not just phones, 20 years ago a mondeo overtook me in traffic, the guy had a clipboard on the wheel, he was signing the back of a credit card
As to the old duffer, he would fall foul of careless driving for that.
If we are that desperate for specific phone laws, then why are they not pragmatic rather than draconian? There is no context, and thus no fairness in the application.
Chester draws said:
It's not just the punishment, it's that combined with the likelihood of being caught.
100% guarantee of being caught but only a 10p fine will not stop people. £1,000,000 fine but 0% chance of being caught will not stop people.
I completely agree with this.100% guarantee of being caught but only a 10p fine will not stop people. £1,000,000 fine but 0% chance of being caught will not stop people.
The current penalty is probably about right but the chances of getting caught are very slim.
I’m also a motorcycle commuter and our viewpoint looking down onto most drivers through their side window as we filter past or overtake means that we see many drivers using phones on their laps which other motorists may not spot - so in fact the problem is even worse than it might seem at first sight to other drivers.
If I were an undercover motorcycle cop tasked simply with tackling mobile phone use in cars I reckon I could easily catch fifty drivers each day (I am in London).
Maybe an advancement in time might be that car companies and phone companies have to comply that when a phone is in the car it defaults to car mode. IE it doesn't work. Phones and cars can already 'talk' to each other, so it's doable.
And as for the passengers, tough luck. You can wait a bit to see what your BFF had for tea.
Volvo, you listening?
And as for the passengers, tough luck. You can wait a bit to see what your BFF had for tea.
Volvo, you listening?
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