Bought car, broke within 2 days, trader saying private sale?

[HaydnFisher]

Hey guys,

I need some advice really on what you guys would do…

I bought a 2006 BMW 330d touring early on in September for £3475 from a trade seller on Gumtree. I met him at a car wash, but no licensed premises.

I didn’t realise at the time but at the veery bottom of the description he wrote “No warranty or guaranties are given with this vehicle as its being sold on behalf of by brother-in-law as a private sale”.

Anyway, within two days of owning the vehicle and driving only about 125 miles, it wouldn’t start when I tried to go to work. Keep in mind, on the test drive and before this, the car drove PERFECTLY. I was perplexed by this, maybe I left a light on? Surely not. Anyway I couldn’t figure it out, I even tried to jump it, though quickly realised that this was a wasted effort. I called the AA and they came to my home and after 45 minutes of cranking the poor car (which has actually done further damage, to a fuel pump?) It was towed to a local garage.

I was told that the ECU compartment had water ingress due to blocked drains and this fried the ECU. This is going to cost £1,600+. When I heard this I called the seller I bought it off and he was willing to try and help fix the issue himself, but then I lost contact with him. I waited a week until saying to the garage go head with the repair as my car was already there and I need the car fixed.

I managed to track him down. I sent a letter informing him of the situation (as advised by Citizens Advice). He got back to me within a week and we began to talk. He told me he "lost" his phone.

He said that it was his brother in laws vehicle and he was just selling it to help him out as he was at work. I was told to contact his brother in law by the seller to arrange a resolution and I was offered £400.

He said that the vehicle was sold as seen and due to this, he doesn’t need to help me.

Yet the seller is constantly selling vehicles (he has about 25 listings right now, even some pictures with a car on a turntable) and during the test drive he used trade plates. I called up Citizens Advice again and they told me since he is a registered trade seller, he can NOT legally make a sale in this way, even if it was on behalf of his brother in law.  
If you are a trade seller, you are not allowed [by law] to deviate between statuses. He listed the vehicle under his "trade" Gumtree account.

I told him all of that in an email and he got back to me telling me that I don’t take care of my cars (I have a youtube video up of me with a £250 scrap Nissan Micra that I took around Europe earlier in the year, I stood on it as it was a camera car, etc)

He also told me he isn’t a registered trader

I’ve since gone and presented all my evidence to Citizens Advice and they say that I have a small claims case, it’s just if the judge sees it like that.

Have any of you guys dealt with a situation such as this?

Any help is very much appreciated!!

Thank you

Edited by HaydnFisher on Sunday 3rd December 23:26

[Josho]

To be fair the fault wasn't there at the time of sale.



It's rediculously common and unfortunately ever after replacing the ECU it only takes one rain shower overnight to kill it.


I'm on the fence with this one as I can see both sides.

[HaydnFisher]

Josho said:

To be fair the fault wasn't there at the time of sale.



It's rediculously common and unfortunately ever after replacing the ECU it only takes one rain shower overnight to kill it.


I'm on the fence with this one as I can see both sides.

I can see both sides as well, I felt that splitting halves would have been fair to both of us and that's what I told him and he said no. Since this guy has been astronomically rude and denying he's a trader.. I see no reason to not continue pursuing it.

Except that the water in the ECU unit had been in there awhile, I guess the fault was technically there? It's a complicated situation.

Edited by HaydnFisher on Sunday 3rd December 23:46

[Leptons]

I’d snap his arm off regards the £400 and move on.

[Denis O]

Threaten to shop him to HMRC unless he takes the car back and refunds the full amount.

Get your money back.

Then shop him to HMRC and watch them squeeze his balls.

We need to stop these oiks.

[Red Devil]

HaydnFisher said:

I bought a 2006 BMW 330d touring early on in September for £3475 from a trade seller on Gumtree. I met him at a car wash, but no licensed premises.

Oh dear...

If he has no 'licensed premises' where does he keep those 25 cars he has listed?

HaydnFisher said:

He also told me he isn’t a registered trader

I’ve since gone and presented all my evidence to Citizens Advice and they say that I have a small claims case, it’s just if the judge sees it like that.

It will indeed depend on how the judge sees it. In a court evidence matters. Do you have a screenshot of the Gumtree listing?
I don't suppose you thought to take a picture of the car with trade plates on it at your car wash rendezvous.

Does he trade under his own name or a style (e.g. Supercheap Motors)?
If the latter you must issue the claim against Mr Yxxxx Zxxxx t/a Supercheap Motors.
You'll also need to make sure you have the correct name and address.

Btw, a judgment is one thing. Enforcement is another.

[TooMany2cvs]

HaydnFisher said:

I bought a 2006 BMW 330d touring early on in September

So you're outside the 30 day outright rejection now.

HaydnFisher said:

for £3475 from a trade seller on Gumtree. I met him at a car wash, but no licensed premises.

He was listed on Gumtree as a trader? If so, then that's all you need to know.

HaydnFisher said:

I didn’t realise at the time but at the veery bottom of the description he wrote “No warranty or guaranties are given with this vehicle as its being sold on behalf of by brother-in-law as a private sale”.

Rule 1. Read the description... And then walk away.

HaydnFisher said:

Anyway, within two days of owning the vehicle and driving only about 125 miles, it wouldn’t start when I tried to go to work. Keep in mind, on the test drive and before this, the car drove PERFECTLY. I was perplexed by this, maybe I left a light on?

Was the battery flat?
Describe "wouldn't start"? Was it turning over but not firing? Was it not turning over? Just a click? Lights dimming?

HaydnFisher said:

Surely not. Anyway I couldn’t figure it out, I even tried to jump it, though quickly realised that this was a wasted effort.

Because the battery wasn't flat?

HaydnFisher said:

I called the AA and they came to my home and after 45 minutes of cranking the poor car (which has actually done further damage, to a fuel pump?) It was towed to a local garage.

Cranking the car over won't damage the fuel pump. It might damage the starter motor, but why would you keep cranking a car for that long when it clearly won't start...?

HaydnFisher said:

I was told that the ECU compartment had water ingress due to blocked drains and this fried the ECU.

VERY different symptoms from a flat battery, of course.

But there's a strong case for him to say that it wasn't a problem present at sale. Is it reasonable for drains to be blocked on a decade-plus old, 10% of new price car? That's all for a court to judge.

HaydnFisher said:

This is going to cost £1,600+. When I heard this I called the seller I bought it off and he was willing to try and help fix the issue himself

Great. You got that in writing, right?

HaydnFisher said:

but then I lost contact with him. I waited a week until saying to the garage go head with the repair as my car was already there and I need the car fixed.

A garage you instructed? That's the end of his responsibility on the issue, then - you've not given him the opportunity to resolve the issue.

HaydnFisher said:

I managed to track him down. I sent a letter informing him of the situation (as advised by Citizens Advice). He got back to me within a week and we began to talk. He told me he "lost" his phone.

He said that it was his brother in laws vehicle and he was just selling it to help him out as he was at work. I was told to contact his brother in law by the seller to arrange a resolution and I was offered £400.

He said that the vehicle was sold as seen and due to this, he doesn’t need to help me.

Perhaps that's true. You need to take him to court to find out.

HaydnFisher said:

Yet the seller is constantly selling vehicles (he has about 25 listings right now, even some pictures with a car on a turntable) and during the test drive he used trade plates. I called up Citizens Advice again and they told me since he is a registered trade seller, he can NOT legally make a sale in this way, even if it was on behalf of his brother in law.  
If you are a trade seller, you are not allowed [by law] to deviate between statuses. He listed the vehicle under his "trade" Gumtree account.

Yup. So you can take him to court.

HaydnFisher said:

I told him all of that in an email and he got back to me telling me that I don’t take care of my cars (I have a youtube video up of me with a £250 scrap Nissan Micra that I took around Europe earlier in the year, I stood on it as it was a camera car, etc)

That's... nice. Utterly irrelevant, of course.

Edited by TooMany2cvs on Monday 4th December 08:32

[anonymous-user]

HaydnFisher said:

...
If you are a trade seller, you are not allowed [by law] to deviate between statuses

...

This is nonsense. A trader could sell his own car privately. If, however, a trader sells a car through his business, as here, the sale is subject to the more rigorous requirements of a trade sale.

OP, you bought from a back street trader and that was risky. From your narrative, the guy is a cowboy. Having said that, the ECU failure may not have been the trader's responsibility. Take the four hundred quid (or push him for a bit more).

[Old Merc]

[quote=HaydnFisher]Hey guys,

I need some advice really on what you guys would do…

I bought a 2006 BMW 330d touring early on in September for £3475 from a trade seller on Gumtree. I met him at a car wash, but no licensed premises.


I bet you paid him in cash as well?? Sorry mate, you met a cowboy at a car wash and now your complaining.
Grab that £400 put it all down to experience and move on.

[Sheepshanks]

£1600 is close to the BMW dealer price for a replacement ECU. Surely repaired units are available for a few hundred quid?

[Sea Demon]

I wouldn't buy a car from someone who wanted to meet me at a petrol station to view it

[fat80b]

Sea Demon said:

I wouldn't buy a car from someone who wanted to meet me at a petrol station to view it

Indeed - OP made a mistake. All of the warning signs were there and he went through with the purchase anyway - presumable £3475 was a "good price".

Take the generous offer of £400 and don't make the same mistake again.

[anonymous-user]

Sheepshanks said:

£1600 is close to the BMW dealer price for a replacement ECU. Surely repaired units are available for a few hundred quid?

This. BBA Reman or any number of other similar companies offer ECU repair/exhange services. I'd be asking them if they can sort this out and how much it would be, could be a much cheaper option.

[anonymous-user]

Get it repaired and start a thread on it in Readers’ Cars.

[justinio]

charltjr said:

This. BBA Reman or any number of other similar companies offer ECU repair/exhange services. I'd be asking them if they can sort this out and how much it would be, could be a much cheaper option.

Too late...

HaydnFisher said:

I waited a week until saying to the garage go head with the repair as my car was already there and I need the car fixed.

We've all done silly things, and it sounds like OP has been caught out by poor judgement and bad luck. These things happen. Just chalk it up to life experience and move on.

Next time. Don't buy a car from a petrol station. Read paperwork carefully. If it doesnt feel right, be prepared to walk away. Don't let your heart overrule your head (easier said than done sometimes) Don't take the first repair quote as your only option (it would have been cheaper to hire a car for a week while you looked for alternative options).

[Willy Nilly]

Sea Demon said:

I wouldn't buy a car from someone who wanted to meet me at a petrol station to view it

The OP met him at a car wash, so it's all good

[austinsmirk]

Probably laundered the money by now if you met him at a car wash.

[Unexpected Item In The Bagging Area]

He's washed his hands of it

[Old Merc]

Take him to the cleaners

[cuprabob]

Claim against the car wash as it was probably their water that damaged the ECU