Id card bill info. Read it and weep.
Discussion
The Wiz said:
Hopefully the forthcoming election will kill this idea stone dead.
Afraid not.
Why do you think Milbank said Sorry? - its all part of the bigger game
Labour have said they will immediately reintroduce it
Tories have said they are broadly supportive but want to discuss detail
Lib Dem have said they have some concerns but are not actually againist it.
Everyone should do a little research (tip this isn't actually about an ID Card it is about the database behind it) and then sign up to www.no2id.net/
Read this and weep even more:
www.lse.ac.uk/collections/pressAndInformationOffice/PDF/IDreport.pdf
"The proposals are too complex, technically unsafe, overly prescriptive and lack a foundation of public trust and confidence."
But then, when did the gov't listen to people telling it things it'd rather not hear?
www.lse.ac.uk/collections/pressAndInformationOffice/PDF/IDreport.pdf
"The proposals are too complex, technically unsafe, overly prescriptive and lack a foundation of public trust and confidence."
But then, when did the gov't listen to people telling it things it'd rather not hear?
Duncan23 said:
Read this and weep even more:
www.lse.ac.uk/collections/pressAndInformationOffice/PDF/IDreport.pdf
Not read the whole report or anything, but I would suggest that it is a little alarmist. I went straight for the technical part to see what it said about the underlying bits there.
They complain about the use of iris biometric technology and refer to the visually impared and those who undergo cataract surgery. They imply that it wouldnt work in these circumstances. Actually recent research has indicated that around 20% of cataract operations render the previous data invalid.
And the visually impared "group" includes those who suffer from a multitude of different eye problems. For example, excessive long / short sighted, tunnel vision, retina damage, nerve damage etc. Only a small percentage of these people have eyes which cannot be read / understood by the technology.
So, I am afraid that the report isnt actually correct in its assumptions in this important area. It obviously had its mind made up here and decided to take the worst case view.
Current national smart card and id card project papers are talking about the use of both iris and fingerprints. Either can be used for the VERY RARE occurance that you need to be positively identified. In fact it is likely that the resulting system will make use of both at the same time to prove identity, so if any one fails there is at least something else that can assist.
However, do take my comments in context - I just looked at one key area and my understanding is different from the report writers. The whole area is filled with untruths and mis-information I am afraid....
Oh, and for the record I am against the use of ID cards as a whole.
It is one of the Bills killed by the dissolution.
Sadly, it will undoubtedly make a reappearance, whomsoever wins on 5 May; and it will achieve none of its previously stated objectives.
Health tourists will not be prevented from entering the UK for treatment funded by UK tax-payers. And once they're in, if they cannot get treatment back home (e.g for AIDS, TB, other long-term illnesses) the Human Rights legislation prohibits them being sent back.
It will not stop terrorism. Regardless of the 'three-month leeway for (illegal) immigrants. Remember, Spain has ID cards ... they didn't stop the Madrid bombings.
The fact that it will take some 10 years to implement negates almost all of the suggestions made for its effectiveness.
It will form the cornerstone of Big Brother. In the natural way of things, the presentation of the ID card to support certain transactions (obtaining a number plate comes to mind as typical) initially will quickly become a requirment. It will be ideal to combat card fraud (the 'chip-n-pin' system having being discredited as vastly superior to the present signature-based system by that time). Then it will be mandated. The government of the day will say that since citizens have to carry the card simply to buy groceries, it might as well be compulsory. Then the police will be able to demand its production. They will have readers and your life to date will be available for their inspection.
The potential threat to civil liberties is too great for this to be allowed. It's no good saying, "If you've nothing to fear ..." Those with nothing to fear now will not escape the state's dictat in the future.
Beware the midnight knock on the door!
Note too that passports are about to be revamped to include your fingerprints. You will have to attend a centre to be fingerprinted and those prints will be encoded onto a chip in the passport. This route bypasses Parliament, as passports are issued by Royal Perogative ... so your elected representatives have no means of stopping it. The fingerprints will also be stored on a new database ... and the police are already agitating for access to that.
In both cases (ID cards and passport fingerprints), be very wary of government's abysmal record in implementing major IT projects. Errors will abound. The system will fail just when it is needed the most, records will be lost. Me? I hope I get tagged as a one-legged, Bulgarian lesbian with fifteen children.
Read Orwell's 1984 and Animal Farm. Read Nicolo Machiavelli's The Prince and Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf. Then read almost anything written by Thomas Jefferson on liberty and the rights of man.
Then tremble citizen, ere you will be humbled before the mighty state.
"Necessity is the plea for every infrigement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants, it is the creed of slaves." -- William Pitt the Younger, Prime Minister 1783-1801 & 1804-1806.
[Rant OFF]
Streaky
PS - I know I'm paranoid ... I just wonder whether I'm paranoid enough! - S
Edited because a missing 'L' turned those seeking medical treatment into 'Right to Roam' campaigners
-S
>> Edited by streaky on Friday 15th April 16:24
Sadly, it will undoubtedly make a reappearance, whomsoever wins on 5 May; and it will achieve none of its previously stated objectives.
Health tourists will not be prevented from entering the UK for treatment funded by UK tax-payers. And once they're in, if they cannot get treatment back home (e.g for AIDS, TB, other long-term illnesses) the Human Rights legislation prohibits them being sent back.
It will not stop terrorism. Regardless of the 'three-month leeway for (illegal) immigrants. Remember, Spain has ID cards ... they didn't stop the Madrid bombings.
The fact that it will take some 10 years to implement negates almost all of the suggestions made for its effectiveness.
It will form the cornerstone of Big Brother. In the natural way of things, the presentation of the ID card to support certain transactions (obtaining a number plate comes to mind as typical) initially will quickly become a requirment. It will be ideal to combat card fraud (the 'chip-n-pin' system having being discredited as vastly superior to the present signature-based system by that time). Then it will be mandated. The government of the day will say that since citizens have to carry the card simply to buy groceries, it might as well be compulsory. Then the police will be able to demand its production. They will have readers and your life to date will be available for their inspection.
The potential threat to civil liberties is too great for this to be allowed. It's no good saying, "If you've nothing to fear ..." Those with nothing to fear now will not escape the state's dictat in the future.
Beware the midnight knock on the door!
Note too that passports are about to be revamped to include your fingerprints. You will have to attend a centre to be fingerprinted and those prints will be encoded onto a chip in the passport. This route bypasses Parliament, as passports are issued by Royal Perogative ... so your elected representatives have no means of stopping it. The fingerprints will also be stored on a new database ... and the police are already agitating for access to that.
In both cases (ID cards and passport fingerprints), be very wary of government's abysmal record in implementing major IT projects. Errors will abound. The system will fail just when it is needed the most, records will be lost. Me? I hope I get tagged as a one-legged, Bulgarian lesbian with fifteen children.
Read Orwell's 1984 and Animal Farm. Read Nicolo Machiavelli's The Prince and Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf. Then read almost anything written by Thomas Jefferson on liberty and the rights of man.
Then tremble citizen, ere you will be humbled before the mighty state.
"Necessity is the plea for every infrigement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants, it is the creed of slaves." -- William Pitt the Younger, Prime Minister 1783-1801 & 1804-1806.
[Rant OFF]
Streaky
PS - I know I'm paranoid ... I just wonder whether I'm paranoid enough! - S
Edited because a missing 'L' turned those seeking medical treatment into 'Right to Roam' campaigners
-S >> Edited by streaky on Friday 15th April 16:24
Just vote Conservative.
We are at crucial time in our history and, if Labour get in again, the slippery slope downwards will just get steeper.
There's a whole world of hurt waiting if Labour get in again, from the bad state of the economy and having to raise tax (i.e. National Insurance etc), to undoubted further expansion of (big brother) public sector, to general soaking of those that Prescott and his type dislike the most, i.e. those in the south who speak a bit "posh like".
ID cards will do nothing but cramp the style of the already registered and taxed.
We are at crucial time in our history and, if Labour get in again, the slippery slope downwards will just get steeper.
There's a whole world of hurt waiting if Labour get in again, from the bad state of the economy and having to raise tax (i.e. National Insurance etc), to undoubted further expansion of (big brother) public sector, to general soaking of those that Prescott and his type dislike the most, i.e. those in the south who speak a bit "posh like".
ID cards will do nothing but cramp the style of the already registered and taxed.
streaky said:
the 'chip-n-pin' system having being discredited as vastly superior to the present signature-based system by that time
Eh? Discredited? How and why?
The technology is pretty sound and the process / principle is good too. To be honest anything that replaces the fact that the only form of authentication for a holder is actually written on the card has to be a good thing.....
So whats wrong with chip and pin?
off_again said:Replacing a two-factor identification system where one is (essentially) biometric with one that is limited to 'something you have' and 'something you know' reduces the potential level of security. The technology exists to encode (more securely than now on the mag-strip) signature dynamics that are unique to the signer. The cost of the reader technology is no geater than for chip-card readers. 'Chip-n-pin' was introduced as part of a ploy for the card issuers to shift liability to the merchant (not that it shouldn't already have lain there anyway).
the 'chip-n-pin' system having being discredited as vastly superior to the present signature-based system by that time
Eh? Discredited? How and why?
The technology is pretty sound and the process / principle is good too. To be honest anything that replaces the fact that the only form of authentication for a holder is actually written on the card has to be a good thing.....
So whats wrong with chip and pin?
And remember, I am talking ten years ahead, not the present day. Currently, an investment of less than £200 will buy you a mag-stride reader and associated software to decode a card and encode a 'white plastic' card. In 10 years, the security on 'chip-n-pin' will be as cheaply compromised.
Streaky
[Who has no association with any manufacturers or vendors of any sort of plastic cards or associated technology.)
streaky said:
PS - I know I'm paranoid ... I just wonder whether I'm paranoid enough! - S
Nein Liebchen.. ist about right....
Und you know my feelings.
Have
still not recovered from time spent in Leipzig.... No iron curtain.... just total iron bars around every man, woman und child..... und spinned into convincing them that voluntary prison und constant surveillance ist for own good....
They shall have obedience necklaces next.... und Steviebabes und Strassen
... only throttling they want to see ist this around my neck Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff