Lying on an accident report form.
Discussion
I’m sure a lot of people have had an accident where the third party has used a bit of imagination in filling in the accident report in order to shift the blame off of them.
I got rear ended the other day and to give the young lad his due that went through his insurance company without a hitch.
However the one before this old lady pulled out of a junction and U turned to go back along the same road right in front of my bike. In spite of there being an independent witness and the police attending when my bike was still in the middle of the road and I was sitting with a broken collarbone she told her insurance company that the accident happened 50 yards along a straight when she was stopped and I ran into the back of her.
I’m assuming somebody advised her to make up this pile of crap for some reason but if I hadn’t had the police out and no witnesses it’s only my word against hers.
Yet she can blatantly lie presumably without any repercussions and surely that isn’t right?
How can they cut down on this? A few high profile court cases (if indeed it’s illegal) or a warning from the insurance industry that if it is proved that you lied it’s extremely difficult to get insurance again?
Or doesn’t the industry really care as it’s all swings and roundabouts in the end.
I suspect part of it is the difference between civil and criminal cases:-
- Insurance claims, if they get to court, are a civil case - "Balance of probabilities" is used as the level of proof required.
- If someone is lying to a court, then that is POTENTIALLY perjury, which is a criminal offense - but the level of proof required is "beyond reasonable doubt".
So it's quite possible for someone to be "very mistaken" in their recollection of events, yet stand very little chance of being convicted for perjury. Plus the courts system is clogged-up enough as it is - trying to fit in another few thousand perjury cases probably wouldn't be deemed to be 'in the public interest'...
BTW - happened to me ~15 years ago - rear-ended on a D-C at speed (3P was barrelling down in L2 and decided he didn't want to wait for me to complete my overtake (despite him having his kids in the car) and missed / misjudged his braking!). Anyway, the other chap's story is that I joined from a slip road (2-3 miles from the accident location), apparently doing much more than the speed limit, and pulled out straight in front of him, and then he (doing less than the speed limit) had to brake twice but still hit me.
Thankfully the mags decided that his story wasn't credible (mainly because it breached the laws of physics, I suspect...)
So I agree with you - that there's no penalty for lying in an insurance claim is causing half of the bother in insurance, because the scum, the slopy shouldered and the generally incompetent have the freedom to go completely Jackanory.
- Insurance claims, if they get to court, are a civil case - "Balance of probabilities" is used as the level of proof required.
- If someone is lying to a court, then that is POTENTIALLY perjury, which is a criminal offense - but the level of proof required is "beyond reasonable doubt".
So it's quite possible for someone to be "very mistaken" in their recollection of events, yet stand very little chance of being convicted for perjury. Plus the courts system is clogged-up enough as it is - trying to fit in another few thousand perjury cases probably wouldn't be deemed to be 'in the public interest'...
BTW - happened to me ~15 years ago - rear-ended on a D-C at speed (3P was barrelling down in L2 and decided he didn't want to wait for me to complete my overtake (despite him having his kids in the car) and missed / misjudged his braking!). Anyway, the other chap's story is that I joined from a slip road (2-3 miles from the accident location), apparently doing much more than the speed limit, and pulled out straight in front of him, and then he (doing less than the speed limit) had to brake twice but still hit me.
Thankfully the mags decided that his story wasn't credible (mainly because it breached the laws of physics, I suspect...)So I agree with you - that there's no penalty for lying in an insurance claim is causing half of the bother in insurance, because the scum, the slopy shouldered and the generally incompetent have the freedom to go completely Jackanory.
My other half had someone pull into her path from a side road and then claim it was her fault. I said nonsense and that we were happy to fix our car (minimal damage) if he sorted his. He then said that unless we paid for his damage he would be claiming for whiplash for his girlfriend (her injuries apparently depended on who was paying out).
Insurance company got involved, he reported my OH to police for not reporting injury accident etc etc, and it was all quite gloomy. Fortunately he sent me his dashcam footage which showed him pull into path of my other half! Police dismissed the whole thing, and after a long time we checked with Insurance company and they said it had been recorded as his fault. Perfect.
So dashcams are great, especially when the ‘guilty’ party provides the footage thinkin it exonerates them!
Insurance company got involved, he reported my OH to police for not reporting injury accident etc etc, and it was all quite gloomy. Fortunately he sent me his dashcam footage which showed him pull into path of my other half! Police dismissed the whole thing, and after a long time we checked with Insurance company and they said it had been recorded as his fault. Perfect.
So dashcams are great, especially when the ‘guilty’ party provides the footage thinkin it exonerates them!
jmcc500 said:
My other half had someone pull into her path from a side road and then claim it was her fault. I said nonsense and that we were happy to fix our car (minimal damage) if he sorted his. He then said that unless we paid for his damage he would be claiming for whiplash for his girlfriend (her injuries apparently depended on who was paying out).
Insurance company got involved, he reported my OH to police for not reporting injury accident etc etc, and it was all quite gloomy. Fortunately he sent me his dashcam footage which showed him pull into path of my other half! Police dismissed the whole thing, and after a long time we checked with Insurance company and they said it had been recorded as his fault. Perfect.
So dashcams are great, especially when the ‘guilty’ party provides the footage thinkin it exonerates them!
Brilliant Insurance company got involved, he reported my OH to police for not reporting injury accident etc etc, and it was all quite gloomy. Fortunately he sent me his dashcam footage which showed him pull into path of my other half! Police dismissed the whole thing, and after a long time we checked with Insurance company and they said it had been recorded as his fault. Perfect.
So dashcams are great, especially when the ‘guilty’ party provides the footage thinkin it exonerates them!
jmcc500 said:
My other half had someone pull into her path from a side road and then claim it was her fault.
Probably one of those retards who believes that if they push thier bumper over the give way line or crawl over the give way line that suddenly they have right of way to pull out. I once witnessed an accident where a woman in an ancient MPV pulled out in front of a guy in quite a nice old Merc and he couldn't avoid rear-ending her.
I was nearly home so drove home and reported myself and my OH to the police as witnesses.
Policeman rang up a couple of days later and told us that he was glad to have more witness statements. The woman had claimed the Merc driver was going very fast (he wasn't), but couldn't answer the policeman's obvious question:
"If he was going so fast, why did you pull out on him?"
I was nearly home so drove home and reported myself and my OH to the police as witnesses.
Policeman rang up a couple of days later and told us that he was glad to have more witness statements. The woman had claimed the Merc driver was going very fast (he wasn't), but couldn't answer the policeman's obvious question:
"If he was going so fast, why did you pull out on him?"
I had similar with a local in Slough a few years back, best thing to invest in is a decent insurance company and a dashcam.
He was in the left hand lane of a dual carriageway and changed lanes into the side of me as I was overtaking him. VW LT35 v a mk 1 ford fiesta. He stated the accident happened half a mile further up the road despite both cars pulling over in a bus stop half a mile before where he stated the accident happened.
My insurers sent their insurers some photographs of the road, they accepted blame and I got my excess back. Only problem is finding a decent insurer these days.
He was in the left hand lane of a dual carriageway and changed lanes into the side of me as I was overtaking him. VW LT35 v a mk 1 ford fiesta. He stated the accident happened half a mile further up the road despite both cars pulling over in a bus stop half a mile before where he stated the accident happened.
My insurers sent their insurers some photographs of the road, they accepted blame and I got my excess back. Only problem is finding a decent insurer these days.
tdm34 said:
The more I see that video, the more I think its a setup. The audio is too clear.jmcc500 said:
My other half had someone pull into her path from a side road and then claim it was her fault. I said nonsense and that we were happy to fix our car (minimal damage) if he sorted his. He then said that unless we paid for his damage he would be claiming for whiplash for his girlfriend (her injuries apparently depended on who was paying out).
Insurance company got involved, he reported my OH to police for not reporting injury accident etc etc, and it was all quite gloomy. Fortunately he sent me his dashcam footage which showed him pull into path of my other half! Police dismissed the whole thing, and after a long time we checked with Insurance company and they said it had been recorded as his fault. Perfect.
So dashcams are great, especially when the ‘guilty’ party provides the footage thinkin it exonerates them!
Why were the police involved?Insurance company got involved, he reported my OH to police for not reporting injury accident etc etc, and it was all quite gloomy. Fortunately he sent me his dashcam footage which showed him pull into path of my other half! Police dismissed the whole thing, and after a long time we checked with Insurance company and they said it had been recorded as his fault. Perfect.
So dashcams are great, especially when the ‘guilty’ party provides the footage thinkin it exonerates them!
Had this.
At scene, 3rd party [accident repair body shop van driver, irony] who had "set off too early" when the lights four / five cars ahead turned green.
Unfortunatley, wife in 11 mo old high up SUV was waiting for Mr low down MX5 in foront of her to wake up / finish cutting his hair so still had the handbrake on and was stationary at the time the Van ran into her, to be fair not realising that more than one bumper ahead of him there was stil stationary traffic.
Engineers report noted that the handbrake was on at time of impact (cable damaged due to stretch from vehicle being pushed, crap HB).
3rd party admits this at scene. 3rd party was alone by himself in van. Thierd party gives details and drives off.
Accident happened next to bus stop, two witness offered details to us and later send forms in to insurance company.
Ring a couple of days later toi see how the wheels are turning with dates for repairs to the bodywork damage and schecks to see if anything else if damaged (like thge HB turned out to be).
Excess that needed to be paid to recovery and repairers not to be refunded. 50/50. Meh? 3rd party now has four witnesses from the bus stop write in to his insurance company that the wife pulled away; stalled, then rolled back into him.
To the insurance company we then offerred a choice of an 0800 Claims Management company inflating what was for our vehicle a £500 repair, or could they do a 30 second look on google maps to check that said bus stop was on a 1 in 7 gradient downhill one way street.
Repairs done and excess refunded four days later with form asking if wife would go to court as insurance fraud by third party was "suspected".
The punchline....guess which bodyshop was the insurers local one for the car repair............needless to say a quick bit of "oh, sh!t, common sense was employed by the call handler who 15 minutes later returned with "do you want to take it to the OEM dealer, this one occasion we think that is justifiable....".
At scene, 3rd party [accident repair body shop van driver, irony] who had "set off too early" when the lights four / five cars ahead turned green.
Unfortunatley, wife in 11 mo old high up SUV was waiting for Mr low down MX5 in foront of her to wake up / finish cutting his hair so still had the handbrake on and was stationary at the time the Van ran into her, to be fair not realising that more than one bumper ahead of him there was stil stationary traffic.
Engineers report noted that the handbrake was on at time of impact (cable damaged due to stretch from vehicle being pushed, crap HB).
3rd party admits this at scene. 3rd party was alone by himself in van. Thierd party gives details and drives off.
Accident happened next to bus stop, two witness offered details to us and later send forms in to insurance company.
Ring a couple of days later toi see how the wheels are turning with dates for repairs to the bodywork damage and schecks to see if anything else if damaged (like thge HB turned out to be).
Excess that needed to be paid to recovery and repairers not to be refunded. 50/50. Meh? 3rd party now has four witnesses from the bus stop write in to his insurance company that the wife pulled away; stalled, then rolled back into him.
To the insurance company we then offerred a choice of an 0800 Claims Management company inflating what was for our vehicle a £500 repair, or could they do a 30 second look on google maps to check that said bus stop was on a 1 in 7 gradient downhill one way street.
Repairs done and excess refunded four days later with form asking if wife would go to court as insurance fraud by third party was "suspected".
The punchline....guess which bodyshop was the insurers local one for the car repair............needless to say a quick bit of "oh, sh!t, common sense was employed by the call handler who 15 minutes later returned with "do you want to take it to the OEM dealer, this one occasion we think that is justifiable....".
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