Scottish Power, Smart Meter rollouts & Data Protection
Discussion
I'm unlucky enough to be a Scottish Power customer, and over the past week I've had an email from them about rolling out smart meters "in my area". I've no interest in these devices, so I ignored the email.
On Friday I received a text message telling me about the smart meter roll out. I ignore it again, only to have the same text message sent on Friday afternoon and once again on Sunday. On the text message it reads this at the end:
"Reply NO if you are not interested"
I take this as an opt out, as you don't want information or anything about this. So I text back NO and leave it at that. Since then, I've had two further text messages demanding to know why I don't want the smart meter installation.
I've taken screenshots, and sent them to Scottish Power over Twitter. Theidiot chap replying said that their system will keep sending me these texts until I tell them why I don't want the meters, and that it's not an opt out of receiving the texts.
To me they're breaking Data Protection, as I've indicated I'm not interested yet they are borderline harrassing me via this marketing material even though I've told them to stop (Both by following instructions in the text message as well as on Twitter to their team). Furthermore, while it can be argued that there is no mention of opting out of communications, wouldn't that in itself be grounds for breaking data protection rules?
Has anyone else had this issue with these cowboys?
On Friday I received a text message telling me about the smart meter roll out. I ignore it again, only to have the same text message sent on Friday afternoon and once again on Sunday. On the text message it reads this at the end:
"Reply NO if you are not interested"
I take this as an opt out, as you don't want information or anything about this. So I text back NO and leave it at that. Since then, I've had two further text messages demanding to know why I don't want the smart meter installation.
I've taken screenshots, and sent them to Scottish Power over Twitter. The
To me they're breaking Data Protection, as I've indicated I'm not interested yet they are borderline harrassing me via this marketing material even though I've told them to stop (Both by following instructions in the text message as well as on Twitter to their team). Furthermore, while it can be argued that there is no mention of opting out of communications, wouldn't that in itself be grounds for breaking data protection rules?
Has anyone else had this issue with these cowboys?
That "no" message should be considered an opt-out. Text "STOP" too - that should get picked up by their SMS tools - but it might take a few weeks for you to stop getting selected for CRM activity.
Smart meters are NOT compulsory. Suppliers have to OFFER them, customers do not (yet!) have to accept (suppliers may decide to only offer smart meters in the future - once there's no stock of classic meters, you'll struggle to avoid smart, but it's not inevitable).
DPA: in ignoring your request to stop texting you, they're probably breaching the DPA. They'll argue it's more a message advising you about your current account with them, and therefore not a marketing message - but the message is entirely for their benefit not yours. GPDR (May 2018 onwards) will make this even stricter, as you'll be able to give mroe specific consent. You need to give them reasonable time to act on your request to stop texting you though.
Tag @ofcom and @ofgem in your tweet to Scottish Power...should focus the mind of their agent a little!
Smart meters are NOT compulsory. Suppliers have to OFFER them, customers do not (yet!) have to accept (suppliers may decide to only offer smart meters in the future - once there's no stock of classic meters, you'll struggle to avoid smart, but it's not inevitable).
DPA: in ignoring your request to stop texting you, they're probably breaching the DPA. They'll argue it's more a message advising you about your current account with them, and therefore not a marketing message - but the message is entirely for their benefit not yours. GPDR (May 2018 onwards) will make this even stricter, as you'll be able to give mroe specific consent. You need to give them reasonable time to act on your request to stop texting you though.
Tag @ofcom and @ofgem in your tweet to Scottish Power...should focus the mind of their agent a little!
REALIST123 said:
Why don’t you want one? Presumably, if you have a reason, you could just tell them and that would be it.
Nobody needs to give a reason. Marketing consent is a simple concept. Chap has said "no more bloody smart meter messaging, please" - he should get no more smart meter messaging.Acceptable reasons are "I said no", "I don't want one" etc.
Smart meter promotion is not deemed marketing comms by the suppliers, Ofgem, or by BEIS, it's deemed a service message (just like a bill, or a letter to ask for a meter reading), so isn't covered by the opt outs. If the suppliers could only communicate smart meter offers to customers who are opted in to marketing they'd only reach a small proportion of the base.
You can opt out of Smart of course, it just sounds as though SSE are logging the reason why, probably to justify it to Ofgem.BEIS. I know that there is a school of thought that even a firmly opted out customer shouldn't stay opted out because they might change their mind, or the products on offer may get sufficiently better that they now want one.
The problem is that suppliers have to take "all reasonable steps" to get Smart into homes, but what is reasonable is not defined. Every supplier is therefore bending over backwards to show how proactive they have been in rolling them out, because no one wants to be the one that gets fined. Most are using a mix of cold calls, door to door appointment booking, and even promotional tariffs etc which are attached to Smart install.
When the deadline is reached, and the rollout hasn't hit target, you can bet your life that BEIS will be pointing the finger at suppliers and fining them, hence they won't easily take no for an answer.
You can opt out of Smart of course, it just sounds as though SSE are logging the reason why, probably to justify it to Ofgem.BEIS. I know that there is a school of thought that even a firmly opted out customer shouldn't stay opted out because they might change their mind, or the products on offer may get sufficiently better that they now want one.
The problem is that suppliers have to take "all reasonable steps" to get Smart into homes, but what is reasonable is not defined. Every supplier is therefore bending over backwards to show how proactive they have been in rolling them out, because no one wants to be the one that gets fined. Most are using a mix of cold calls, door to door appointment booking, and even promotional tariffs etc which are attached to Smart install.
When the deadline is reached, and the rollout hasn't hit target, you can bet your life that BEIS will be pointing the finger at suppliers and fining them, hence they won't easily take no for an answer.
sgtBerbatov said:
To me they're breaking Data Protection, as I've indicated I'm not interested yet they are borderline harrassing me via this marketing material even though I've told them to stop
It's not data protection. Much more likely to fall foul of the Privacy and Electronic Communications (EU Directive) Regulations. They would probably argue that they weren't trying to sell you anything, and that they had a legal onus to ensure you understood that this was an energy-efficiency measure that was free of charge, or something.REALIST123 said:
Why don’t you want one? Presumably, if you have a reason, you could just tell them and that would be it.
I think some of it could be down to the number of shoddy installs.In regards to marketing comms yes I regularly see the other side of this, but usually you have to give a reasonable amount of time for the system to updated (saying that ANY proper professional tool will automatically mask that data and stop you being able to send to it (and therefore you will receive no further marketing communications). GDPR is something I am actively involved in though here and getting everything prepared.
@Blue Oval - there are plenty of opportunities to push smart that don't involve texting somebody on a mobile number that was given for other reasons. Whether that's landing pages on websites, bill inserts, as part of inbound calls etc - suppliers shouldn't (but are) be texting in this way, even more so when done repeatedly. But yes, suppliers aren't treating this as a marketing message.
You're right about the fines though, they're coming - and annoyingly they will not benefit customers in any way. It'll be a way for ofgem to kick large suppliers though, as new entrants are naturally taking more than their fair share of the more "digitally engaged" customers who might go for smart (though it's probably incorrect to assume younger customers are more likely to choose smart meters)
You're right about the fines though, they're coming - and annoyingly they will not benefit customers in any way. It'll be a way for ofgem to kick large suppliers though, as new entrants are naturally taking more than their fair share of the more "digitally engaged" customers who might go for smart (though it's probably incorrect to assume younger customers are more likely to choose smart meters)
Agreed there are plenty of ways to do it, however suppliers need (or perceive that they need) a clear audit trail of every attempt they've made with every customer. SMS certainly provides this.
There's a belief by some that we will be asked down to an individual customer-level what attempts we've made (obviously not for all of them, but a sample), and then the powers that be can decide if they think it's "reasonable".
There's a belief by some that we will be asked down to an individual customer-level what attempts we've made (obviously not for all of them, but a sample), and then the powers that be can decide if they think it's "reasonable".
REALIST123 said:
Why don’t you want one? Presumably, if you have a reason, you could just tell them and that would be it.
I work on the basis of "no means no". If I had to give a reason for saying no I'd never get anything done.That aside, I've several problems with these smart meters.
Firstly, as has been pointed out, there have been a number of shoddy installations. When it comes to a TV being installed incorrectly, it's an inconvenience. But if it involves your gas and electricity, well that's a problem as far as I'm concerned. As I have a gas and electricity meter already which aren't broken, why would I want to put myself in a position of experiencing problems.
Secondly the meters, initially, are tied to the provider. So when I change from SP the meter won't work. I've not been told in the email or text messages whether these meters are the "newer" cross company ones or whether they're the old versions. It would mean having the smart meter reinstalled by another supplier when I come to switch.
Thirdly the smart meters themselves aren't great in terms of security. They've been shown to be easily hackable. It controls your gas and electricity, and while I'm not suggesting someone could make my house blow up from switching on the gas, it could be turned off without me knowing (as one example).
Fourth point is that there have been a number of cases where the smart meter has given the wrong reading back to the supplier. While more and more customers are going with monthly Direct Debits (like myself), if they change how much I pay based on a spike of non-existent energy usage that money will have left my account before I would notice or had chance to stop it. Then you have the period of time where you'd wait for the "credit" (because it's never a refund with these people) to be applied to your bank account.
Fifth point is the control, albeit small, over the supply of gas and electricity to my home. I'm not on the bread line or anything like that, but these smart meters can (or may) allow the supplier to cut you off fairly easily. I'd like to think they don't, but even after speaking to SP about it (when they called me ALREADY about these smart meters 2 months ago) the guy on the phone just said "No we wouldn't do that". Not "No that's not possible to do with these devices".
But as I said, no means no. I've told them no, twice, I shouldn't have to give a reason for that choice. We're not legally bound to have these installed (yet but that'll be a while yet), so as far as I'm concerned they're a benefit to the supplier and not to me as it means the supplier doesn't rely on me giving meter readings and sending out the chap once a year to check whether I'm telling porkies or not.
Furthermore, communication with the supplier can be provided via SMS, email or postal. I've had the letter, email, even the phone call and these text messages. So it's not as if I'm not aware of these smart meters, especially with the Jim Broadbent commerical running every single hour on both TV and Radio. There is absolutely no need, and it's quite frankly an abuse of the data I have given them.
Scottish Power are beyond a joke. When we moved they kept billing me for previous occupants' scheme. After 6 months, I moved to OVO (which we hade used at our previous house). Still the bills kept coming, and still I explained everything in detail. It got to bailiff time, and I truly wanted them to take me on. Eventually I wrote to CEO, and got an apologetic letter. It seems Customer Complaints do not talk to Accounts, even when you copy both.
As for smart meters, OVO offered them, I replied on line, end of the issue. My electricity is fairly constant throughout the year, I do not use it for heating or hot water. Also with OVO, I give my readings on line every month. I never give my mobile phone number to these type of organisations, and if I have to to get access to a website, I have a spare phone that I never use and I give them that number.
I agree 'no means no'.
As for smart meters, OVO offered them, I replied on line, end of the issue. My electricity is fairly constant throughout the year, I do not use it for heating or hot water. Also with OVO, I give my readings on line every month. I never give my mobile phone number to these type of organisations, and if I have to to get access to a website, I have a spare phone that I never use and I give them that number.
I agree 'no means no'.
sgtBerbatov said:
I work on the basis of "no means no". If I had to give a reason for saying no I'd never get anything done.
That aside, I've several problems with these smart meters.
Firstly, as has been pointed out, there have been a number of shoddy installations. When it comes to a TV being installed incorrectly, it's an inconvenience. But if it involves your gas and electricity, well that's a problem as far as I'm concerned. As I have a gas and electricity meter already which aren't broken, why would I want to put myself in a position of experiencing problems.
Secondly the meters, initially, are tied to the provider. So when I change from SP the meter won't work. I've not been told in the email or text messages whether these meters are the "newer" cross company ones or whether they're the old versions. It would mean having the smart meter reinstalled by another supplier when I come to switch.
I read somewhere that power companies are desperately trying to offload stocks of older-model smart meters before they become obsolete and are replaced by the newer cross-company versions. Which is why the companies are furiously ragging on customers to get them to switch. EDF were phoning our house number daily at one point - and always in the mid afternoon when no-one was at home.That aside, I've several problems with these smart meters.
Firstly, as has been pointed out, there have been a number of shoddy installations. When it comes to a TV being installed incorrectly, it's an inconvenience. But if it involves your gas and electricity, well that's a problem as far as I'm concerned. As I have a gas and electricity meter already which aren't broken, why would I want to put myself in a position of experiencing problems.
Secondly the meters, initially, are tied to the provider. So when I change from SP the meter won't work. I've not been told in the email or text messages whether these meters are the "newer" cross company ones or whether they're the old versions. It would mean having the smart meter reinstalled by another supplier when I come to switch.
Not quite true, they're desperately trying to hit mandated rollout targets, and still don't have any serious ability to install SMETS2 en masse. Unfortunately things can't wait for SMETS2, they have to install tens of thousands a week regardless.
They can continue installing SMETS1 waaaay into next year, there certainly aren't warehouses full of unused meters to be cleared (at any supplier I've heard about), in fact I'm not even aware of any supplier that owns their own meters, most are leased.
They can continue installing SMETS1 waaaay into next year, there certainly aren't warehouses full of unused meters to be cleared (at any supplier I've heard about), in fact I'm not even aware of any supplier that owns their own meters, most are leased.
Scottish Power were supposed to fit mine this month after me finally giving in and agreeing to it. Come the day that was arranged weeks before they were a no show and didn't contact me until the last minute of their scheduled 4 hour slot. Need less to say I have told them to shove it. Their reply was but you will have to take meter readings yourself to which I told them if they want an accurate reading they can waste their time coming out as I wouldn't be taking any readings. Since found out if you switch suppliers that meter would probably not be comparable with their systems to supply readings so a total waste of time.
Why the anti about smart meters?
As I understand it, the suppliers are REQUIRED to fit them (or at least meet a target). If they don't meet that target, their costs effectively go up, which will in turn push your energy costs up.
Saves us making regular readings, data is available on SP's web site for your own use if you like.
There is an issue with the meters not being able to be used if you switch suppliers - not that I understand why, as all of the metering is done through a seperate 'metering company' who collect data on behalf of all of the suppliers... Can't see why that data feed can't be customised at the supplier end rather than requiring any custom meters at the customer end.
SP did a good job on installing at two properties I look after - not too much down time, very neat, very pleasant installer who was on targets to get around 6 installs per day..... and that is not in a row of houses, thay can be in different areas.
The stories he told of the state of some properties they have to work in - you wouldn't believe.
As I understand it, the suppliers are REQUIRED to fit them (or at least meet a target). If they don't meet that target, their costs effectively go up, which will in turn push your energy costs up.
Saves us making regular readings, data is available on SP's web site for your own use if you like.
There is an issue with the meters not being able to be used if you switch suppliers - not that I understand why, as all of the metering is done through a seperate 'metering company' who collect data on behalf of all of the suppliers... Can't see why that data feed can't be customised at the supplier end rather than requiring any custom meters at the customer end.
SP did a good job on installing at two properties I look after - not too much down time, very neat, very pleasant installer who was on targets to get around 6 installs per day..... and that is not in a row of houses, thay can be in different areas.
The stories he told of the state of some properties they have to work in - you wouldn't believe.
No ideas for a name said:
Why the anti about smart meters?
There are lots and lots of reasons but the most obvious one is "Because the gen one ones are utter s
t and why have a gen one one fitted when you can wait a few more years and have a gen 3 (by which time they might have made them metaphorically able to find their arse with both hands.)"Mrs is a Sustainability Manager for an NHS trust and seems to know more about these things than your average.
Rude-boy said:
There are lots and lots of reasons but the most obvious one is "Because the gen one ones are utter st and why have a gen one one fitted when you can wait a few more years and have a gen 3 (by which time they might have made them metaphorically able to find their arse with both hands.)"
Mrs is a Sustainability Manager for an NHS trust and seems to know more about these things than your average.
On the grounds that gen 1 are just landfill waiting to happen they are ecologically unsound.t and why have a gen one one fitted when you can wait a few more years and have a gen 3 (by which time they might have made them metaphorically able to find their arse with both hands.)"Mrs is a Sustainability Manager for an NHS trust and seems to know more about these things than your average.
Rude-boy said:
There are lots and lots of reasons but the most obvious one is "Because the gen one ones are utter st and why have a gen one one fitted when you can wait a few more years and have a gen 3 (by which time they might have made them metaphorically able to find their arse with both hands.)"
Mrs is a Sustainability Manager for an NHS trust and seems to know more about these things than your average.
The ones fitted at my old house worked a treat, and saved me having to read the meter which I assume is the main benefit, the actual smart box thing was crap so that got binned. My wife "feels the cold" so I know my bill be expensive. t and why have a gen one one fitted when you can wait a few more years and have a gen 3 (by which time they might have made them metaphorically able to find their arse with both hands.)"Mrs is a Sustainability Manager for an NHS trust and seems to know more about these things than your average.
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