CCJ - set-aside issues/questions

[kiethton]

Good afternoon, a little long winded for this time of year but am wanting to double check what I am being told by my lawyer.....

In Summer 2016 I was involved in a (to my mind) non fault/split liability accident (car pulling from a side road into a filtering motorbike - I was on the motorbike).

Roll forward to this summer and I receive a court letter (to an old address) saying I am being taken to court for the hire car fees - £5k for an XC60 (for an ageing Dodge Nitro for 5 days). In full knowledge of the process and having spoken to my insurance co/AMC a few weeks before where they were still negotiating liability I forwarded the paperwork on to them by both e-mail and post with an e-mail confirmation of receipt received. From here it gets a little more complicated.

In ~September I check my credit report (as I do most months) and notice a CCJ recorded. Not knowing what it was, or to what it related, I call the court for more information. After establishing it relates to the above I immediately call both my insurance company and the AMC to get it resolved. Long story short they both thought that each other/another firm was dealing with it so it was not replied to, the counter claim not issued and the matter not defended at all!

I then explained the complications;

I'm an FCA regulated individual, performing a controlled function
I also require a squeaky clean credit report to manage upcoming mortgage applications and debt balances in a cost effective way

After a bit of back and forth I was told the name of the firm of solicitors that were dealing with the issue, and to whom it had not been delegated properly by my insurance company. After speaking to them I was apologised to for the mix-up and assured that an application would be made to set-aside the judgement that afternoon and that of not resolved before the 28 day period it would be settled and appealed retrospectively. I then chased weekly for progress, being told each time (when I got through) that it was in hand. The last call was a few days before the expiry of the 28 day period where i stressed the importance and was told they were chasing the court daily in relation to the set-aside application and that there was a delay. They were told to resolve it without impact to myself.

When my next credit report came out it was still there. I call the court again and the judgement remains active and that no paperwork has been submitted!

I again call the solicitors and am told the person dealing with my case has left/been transferred and it has been assigned to another. Fuming is an understatement. Thankfully the new one seems a little better but still......I've been told that the application to set-aside has been deferred to March 2018?!? (why?) and I've still now got this outstanding judgement.

When pressed she refuses to answer certain questions but says she is in regular contact with her compliance department regarding my case:

Will this affect my long term credit score (in both the circumstances of the set aside being granted/is not granted)?
How I reclaim the additional costs from debt that are racking up at ~£250pm in interest that I'm unable to manage/reorganise as I would otherwise? (interest free CC switches/lower cost refinancing)

How do I resolve it from here?

I've got to declare this to my own compliance department and renew my FCA approval in the new year which could cause some issues and I need to recover some of the costs this cock-up is unintentionally costing me. In addition I'm looking to move house within the next year or 2 and will be requiring a sizeable mortgage, will this debacle impact that? and how do I get compensated if so? - an inability to raise a £500k mortgage (I would likely have been able to otherwise) would become a huge issue, a 1% interest rate differential over a 35 year term is also a rather large number.....if that's the impact too!

[PurpleMoonlight]

Shouldn't the County court claim and judgement have been issued to your home address?

Did you not receive anything?

If so, can you apply to the County court to set aside the judgement?

[sim16v]

Not the ideal solution, but you could have paid the CCJ in full and the slate would have wiped clean, nothing recorded.

Then follow process to get it removed completely.

You then go after the insurance company/solicitors/AMC for your costs.

[Cyberprog]

You should have instructed a solicitor, or filed the set aside yourself. The form isn't hard to deal with, and you can just pay the fee and claim it back from the insurer for their cockup.

[kiethton]

Indeed, should have filed the paperwork myself however the solicitors said they had it in hand so left them to it as is their profession. The address it was sent to was an old one but I had the paperwork forwarded, in good time, prior to the hearing/date.

I would have paid the cash to settle and reclaim but I just didn't have it, had only just moved into my current flat and finished doing it all up, quite a lot to have on hand!

Main issue is how I resolve it from here, if the set aside goes though (a hearing as far as I understand) I think all's sorted but if not......???

Also the interim costs, I presume I can bill the solicitor for the £250pm to cover the difference although proving that it would have been ported/transferred isn't exactly easy!

Edited by kiethton on Thursday 28th December 14:03

[paintman]

Hopefully BV & others will advise but it sounds as though your solicitors need a wake-up call to focus their attention.
As a starter:
http://www.sra.org.uk/consumers/problems/report-so...

[Red Devil]

kiethton said:

After a bit of back and forth I was told the name of the firm of solicitors that were dealing with the issue, and to whom it had not been delegated properly by my insurance company. After speaking to them I was apologised to for the mix-up and assured that an application would be made to set-aside the judgement that afternoon and that of not resolved before the 28 day period it would be settled and appealed retrospectively. I then chased weekly for progress, being told each time (when I got through) that it was in hand. The last call was a few days before the expiry of the 28 day period where i stressed the importance and was told they were chasing the court daily in relation to the set-aside application and that there was a delay. They were told to resolve it without impact to myself.

When my next credit report came out it was still there. I call the court again and the judgement remains active and that no paperwork has been submitted!

I again call the solicitors and am told the person dealing with my case has left/been transferred and it has been assigned to another. Fuming is an understatement. Thankfully the new one seems a little better but still......I've been told that the application to set-aside has been deferred to March 2018?!? (why?) and I've still now got this outstanding judgement.

When pressed she refuses to answer certain questions but says she is in regular contact with her compliance department regarding my case

Did you follow up each of these calls to the solicitors with a confirmation e-mail or letter detailing what was said/agreed?
I hope so because an audit trail is crucial when things get messy, especially with something that could have such an adverse effect on your job.

The deferment doesn't altogether surprise me, althought the length of time seems excessive.
Set asides are not a high priority for the courts,!!although it is for those who need redress!.
The entire justice system both civil and criminal is teetering on the brink due to the cuts imposed by the government.
The court closure program which was completed in September is just one visible manifestation.
The financial squeeze imposed by the Treasury on the MoJ is the real, but less outwardly obvious, killer.

[kiethton]

Red Devil said:

kiethton said:

After a bit of back and forth I was told the name of the firm of solicitors that were dealing with the issue, and to whom it had not been delegated properly by my insurance company. After speaking to them I was apologised to for the mix-up and assured that an application would be made to set-aside the judgement that afternoon and that of not resolved before the 28 day period it would be settled and appealed retrospectively. I then chased weekly for progress, being told each time (when I got through) that it was in hand. The last call was a few days before the expiry of the 28 day period where i stressed the importance and was told they were chasing the court daily in relation to the set-aside application and that there was a delay. They were told to resolve it without impact to myself.

When my next credit report came out it was still there. I call the court again and the judgement remains active and that no paperwork has been submitted!

I again call the solicitors and am told the person dealing with my case has left/been transferred and it has been assigned to another. Fuming is an understatement. Thankfully the new one seems a little better but still......I've been told that the application to set-aside has been deferred to March 2018?!? (why?) and I've still now got this outstanding judgement.

When pressed she refuses to answer certain questions but says she is in regular contact with her compliance department regarding my case

Did you follow up each of these calls to the solicitors with a confirmation e-mail or letter detailing what was said/agreed?
I hope so because an audit trail is crucial when things get messy, especially with something that could have such an adverse effect on your job.

The deferment doesn't altogether surprise me, althought the length of time seems excessive.
Set asides are not a high priority for the courts,!!although it is for those who need redress!.
The entire justice system both civil and criminal is teetering on the brink due to the cuts imposed by the government.
The court closure program which was completed in September is just one visible manifestation.
The financial squeeze imposed by the Treasury on the MoJ is the real, but less outwardly obvious, killer.

All calls are traceable via my monitored work line, I don't think my calls are always recorded however - with a lot of effort on my companies behalf I should be able to prove call logs (all made from work phone). They were occasionally followed up by an e-mail referencing the conversation, either immediately or a few days later - not the obvious course of action given a solicitor that was meant to be defending you/counter-claiming.

[mcflurry]

Are you able to pay the £255, and do the set aside yourself, and then send them the bill?

[anonymous-user]

Red Devil said:

kiethton said:

After a bit of back and forth I was told the name of the firm of solicitors that were dealing with the issue, and to whom it had not been delegated properly by my insurance company. After speaking to them I was apologised to for the mix-up and assured that an application would be made to set-aside the judgement that afternoon and that of not resolved before the 28 day period it would be settled and appealed retrospectively. I then chased weekly for progress, being told each time (when I got through) that it was in hand. The last call was a few days before the expiry of the 28 day period where i stressed the importance and was told they were chasing the court daily in relation to the set-aside application and that there was a delay. They were told to resolve it without impact to myself.

When my next credit report came out it was still there. I call the court again and the judgement remains active and that no paperwork has been submitted!

I again call the solicitors and am told the person dealing with my case has left/been transferred and it has been assigned to another. Fuming is an understatement. Thankfully the new one seems a little better but still......I've been told that the application to set-aside has been deferred to March 2018?!? (why?) and I've still now got this outstanding judgement.

When pressed she refuses to answer certain questions but says she is in regular contact with her compliance department regarding my case

Did you follow up each of these calls to the solicitors with a confirmation e-mail or letter detailing what was said/agreed?
I hope so because an audit trail is crucial when things get messy, especially with something that could have such an adverse effect on your job.

The deferment doesn't altogether surprise me, althought the length of time seems excessive.
Set asides are not a high priority for the courts,!!although it is for those who need redress!.
The entire justice system both civil and criminal is teetering on the brink due to the cuts imposed by the government.
The court closure program which was completed in September is just one visible manifestation.
The financial squeeze imposed by the Treasury on the MoJ is the real, but less outwardly obvious, killer.

Why should the courts give priority to something that only arose because of the inadequacy of the OP’s representatives?

[PurpleMoonlight]

kiethton said:

Indeed, should have filed the paperwork myself however the solicitors said they had it in hand so left them to it as is their profession. The address it was sent to was an old one but I had the paperwork forwarded, in good time, prior to the hearing/date.

I would have paid the cash to settle and reclaim but I just didn't have it, had only just moved into my current flat and finished doing it all up, quite a lot to have on hand!

Main issue is how I resolve it from here, if the set aside goes though (a hearing as far as I understand) I think all's sorted but if not......???

Also the interim costs, I presume I can bill the solicitor for the £250pm to cover the difference although proving that it would have been ported/transferred isn't exactly easy!

Edited by kiethton on Thursday 28th December 14:03

Why are you changing your story?

First you state you knew nothing about it until you checked your credit record and had to call the court, now you state you received the notice of claim well before the hearing date. Did you in fact receive the judgement too?

[kiethton]

PurpleMoonlight said:

kiethton said:

Indeed, should have filed the paperwork myself however the solicitors said they had it in hand so left them to it as is their profession. The address it was sent to was an old one but I had the paperwork forwarded, in good time, prior to the hearing/date.

I would have paid the cash to settle and reclaim but I just didn't have it, had only just moved into my current flat and finished doing it all up, quite a lot to have on hand!

Main issue is how I resolve it from here, if the set aside goes though (a hearing as far as I understand) I think all's sorted but if not......???

Also the interim costs, I presume I can bill the solicitor for the £250pm to cover the difference although proving that it would have been ported/transferred isn't exactly easy!

Edited by kiethton on Thursday 28th December 14:03

Why are you changing your story?

First you state you knew nothing about it until you checked your credit record and had to call the court, now you state you received the notice of claim well before the hearing date. Did you in fact receive the judgement too?

I haven't.

I received claim paperwork, redirected from an old address and forwarded it to my then insurance company and was told that it was no problem and that liability was yet to be settled and that they were still negotiating both liability and the split.

Then in the autumn, some 6 months later, I checked my credit report and noticed the judgement on my credit history without any further update or contact from the insurance company. Being busy sorting a flat and with work the original paperwork was forgotten after it had been sent and confirmation of receipt had been given.

[kiethton]

mcflurry said:

Are you able to pay the £255, and do the set aside yourself, and then send them the bill?

Would I not then be in the same position, waiting on a date?

[Red Devil]

REALIST123 said:

Why should the courts give priority to something that only arose because of the inadequacy of the OP’s representatives?

It might help if you didn't read into my post something which I never suggested.

What I don't understand is why the OP's insurer passed the buck to him to contact the solicitors. It is their failure to do their job properly which has caused this debacle.
They can't have their subrogation cake and eat it. The 'pass the parcel' between the insurer and the AMC is no excuse. Seems like a breach of TCF to me.

Here is the OP's earlier thread on the same subject - https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...

[PurpleMoonlight]

kiethton said:

I haven't.

I received claim paperwork, redirected from an old address and forwarded it to my then insurance company and was told that it was no problem and that liability was yet to be settled and that they were still negotiating both liability and the split.

Then in the autumn, some 6 months later, I checked my credit report and noticed the judgement on my credit history without any further update or contact from the insurance company. Being busy sorting a flat and with work the original paperwork was forgotten after it had been sent and confirmation of receipt had been given.

I am truly astonished that a regulated individual would be so cavalier about a county court claim landing on the doormat.

To have a judgement set aside you need to be able to demonstrate to a judge that you have a reasonable expectation of defending the calm should it be re-heard.

I think you should be taking charge of what is happening rather than relying on third parties, who appear incompetent at best.

Good luck with it.

[a.lex]

Good job on diligently checking your credit report (I'm not quite so diligent, but that reminds me...), but it does sound like you've dropped the ball regarding the CCJ issue. Not that you should have had to hold their hands, of course.

The solicitors, even though appointed by your insurer, have a duty of care to you, which it sounds like they may have breached. Which means that your interests may now be in conflict with theirs, so it might be a good idea to speak to a solicitor experienced with making professional negligence claims, just to make sure that your interests are given the prominence they deserve--including your interest in getting this matter resolved ASAP.

[Red Devil]

PurpleMoonlight said:

am truly astonished that a regulated individual would be so cavalier about a county court claim landing on the doormat.

I think your criticism is a tad harsh. He passed the claim paperwork to his insurer which is what he was supposed to do.
Hardly his fault that the insurer/AMC stuffed up and left him unknowingly holding the baby.
The questions i have is where were the court judgment papers sent and why didnt he see them rather than finding out from a credit file check?.

PurpleMoonlight said:

To have a judgement set aside you need to be able to demonstrate to a judge that you have a reasonable expectation of defending the calm should it be re-heard.

This is where it gets complicated. If the claim is to be defended that's his insurer's job (under the subrogation principle), not his.
Therefore any set aside application needs to made by them and they will be in a far better position than he is to know if there is that prospect of success..
It's part of what he has paid his premium for. I'm gobsmacked that his insurer expected him to contact the solicitors who should be acting for them..
The insurer/AMC fd up. It;s not the OP's job to pull their rabbits out of the hat.

PurpleMoonlight said:

I think you should be taking charge of what is happening rather than relying on third parties, who appear incompetent at best.

The taking charge may mean having to rely on third parties. I don't see that he is realistically in a postion to do much else tbh.
As another poster has said it may mean, if push comes to shove, instructing his own solicitor
However surely the first step has to be a formal complaint to his insurer and followed if necessary with a referral to the FOS.
An audit trail (everything in writing) is essential from this point onwards.

With the service level displayed so far, I would be looking elsewhere at renewal time as well.

[KungFuPanda]

Given that you first noticed the CCJ on your credit report back in September and it is now the end of December, the judgment has been entered for at least 3/4 months.

This excerpt is from the CPR dealing with setting aside judgment:

Cases where the court may set aside or vary judgment entered under Part 12
13.3
(1) In any other case, the court may set aside(GL) or vary a judgment entered under Part 12 if –
(a) the defendant has a real prospect of successfully defending the claim; or
(b) it appears to the court that there is some other good reason why –
(i) the judgment should be set aside or varied; or
(ii) the defendant should be allowed to defend the claim.
(2) In considering whether to set aside(GL) or vary a judgment entered under Part 12, the matters to which the court must have regard include whether the person seeking to set aside the judgment made an application to do so promptly.
(Rule 3.1(3) provides that the court may attach conditions when it makes an order)
(Article 19(4) of the Service Regulation (which has the same meaning as in rule 6.31(e)) applies to applications to appeal a judgment in default when the time limit for appealing has expired.)

You need to have acted promptly. If you get your application to set aside heard by some grumpy District Judge, he might kick it out straight away given that you've sat on it for so long. He won't give a toss about your credit record/mortgage application/interest payments.

I'd play merry hell with the insurers and solicitors. You should find out whether the solicitors filed Notice of Acting with the Court and whether they filed an Acknowledgment of Service or Defence. I doubt they did otherwise Judgment would not have been entered.

[kiethton]

Indeed, I sent a polite but firm email to them yesterday giving them 14 days to respond with how they intend to resolve things. I've been told that ta now with their legal compliance department who are understandably away, back next week.

I can only go on what I know from them via timings - I was told the application to set aside was made within a few days of me knowing about it, when I kicked them to doing something when I found it in my report.

I was told that there was a period of ~4-6 weeks before it even got seen (sitting in a queue) and then the wait, from about 4 weeks ago to march before the hearing date.

My biggest issue/worry is if it doesn't get set aside, how can I quantify the loss/inability to borrow what i'd need in the future/prove that I would have followed my historical path and refinanced debt to lower rates?

[AndStilliRise]

kiethton said:

Indeed, I sent a polite but firm email to them yesterday giving them 14 days to respond with how they intend to resolve things. I've been told that ta now with their legal compliance department who are understandably away, back next week.

I can only go on what I know from them via timings - I was told the application to set aside was made within a few days of me knowing about it, when I kicked them to doing something when I found it in my report.

I was told that there was a period of ~4-6 weeks before it even got seen (sitting in a queue) and then the wait, from about 4 weeks ago to march before the hearing date.

My biggest issue/worry is if it doesn't get set aside, how can I quantify the loss/inability to borrow what i'd need in the future/prove that I would have followed my historical path and refinanced debt to lower rates?

Not sure you can. Either way, I would be a least visiting the solicitors to see if headway can be made. Refuse to leave until someone see's you.