Unusual Parking Notice issue - Help please
Discussion
A few weeks back I got a letter from a company called Debt Recovery Plus Ltd requesting £160.00 in payment for a parking fine, specifically parking in a disabled bay without a valid blue badge. The date of the offense was February 2015, the vehicle in question was indeed previously mine, but had been sold in August 2013, and the location I’ve never visited. Suffice to say, it definitely wasn’t me.
I found this slightly odd because a) I’ve moved house since selling the vehicle and b) they’ve taken the trouble to obtain my current address which they’ve presumably sourced from the DVLA. This kept gnawing at my mind because I couldn’t work out why they’d come after me when I had sold that car a good 18 months prior to the parking ticket being issued.
I decided to hold off contacting DRP and instead go to the DVLA to try and find out what the current status of the vehicle is, now I’m starting to panic that it is still registered to me. I didn't reply to DRP Ltd, and whilst waiting for the DVLA to get back to me they have sent another letter threatening that they're going to recommend their 'client' take legal action unless I cough up.
I got a letter back from the DVLA today saying that the date of my acquisition of the vehicle was as I expected, but the date of ‘disposal’ was 30/10/2015. So the vehicle was still registered to me (at my old address) until this date, nearly a good two years after I sold it!
So in summary, when the parking notice was issued the car was still registered to me at my old address, though I was unaware. My question to anyone who is able to help is what on earth can I do? I don’t see why I have should pay someone else’s parking fine, but how can I prove that it wasn’t me since the DVLA records weren’t correct? Am I potentially opening myself up for a far more serious fine if I highlight the fact that the details were wrong? I've bought and sold many cars and am a stickler for getting the V5 sent off ASAP, so can only assume it got lost in the post or never processed.
As far as DRP are concerned, I was the registered keeper at the time of the parking fine, but I wasn’t the driver and as far as I knew had sold the car.
Any advise please?
I found this slightly odd because a) I’ve moved house since selling the vehicle and b) they’ve taken the trouble to obtain my current address which they’ve presumably sourced from the DVLA. This kept gnawing at my mind because I couldn’t work out why they’d come after me when I had sold that car a good 18 months prior to the parking ticket being issued.
I decided to hold off contacting DRP and instead go to the DVLA to try and find out what the current status of the vehicle is, now I’m starting to panic that it is still registered to me. I didn't reply to DRP Ltd, and whilst waiting for the DVLA to get back to me they have sent another letter threatening that they're going to recommend their 'client' take legal action unless I cough up.
I got a letter back from the DVLA today saying that the date of my acquisition of the vehicle was as I expected, but the date of ‘disposal’ was 30/10/2015. So the vehicle was still registered to me (at my old address) until this date, nearly a good two years after I sold it!
So in summary, when the parking notice was issued the car was still registered to me at my old address, though I was unaware. My question to anyone who is able to help is what on earth can I do? I don’t see why I have should pay someone else’s parking fine, but how can I prove that it wasn’t me since the DVLA records weren’t correct? Am I potentially opening myself up for a far more serious fine if I highlight the fact that the details were wrong? I've bought and sold many cars and am a stickler for getting the V5 sent off ASAP, so can only assume it got lost in the post or never processed.
As far as DRP are concerned, I was the registered keeper at the time of the parking fine, but I wasn’t the driver and as far as I knew had sold the car.
Any advise please?
POFA 2012 Schedule 4: “keeper” means the person by whom the vehicle is kept at the time the vehicle was parked, which in the case of a registered vehicle is to be presumed, unless the contrary is proved, to be the registered keeper;"
Can you prove you sold it prior to that time? Doesn't have to be conclusive proof, but enough to convince the thickest of PPCs they're barking up the wrong tree.
Otherwise, you're stuck with an ordinary PPC case (with the difference being that you have no information about the parking incident other than what the PPC provides you with). They often make mistakes, which is convenient. for you. Debt collectors have no powers in the UK to enforce payment, and if the debt collector does send this back to the PPC, they don't get paid, so their incentive is to pester you until it is clear that is not going to work. The standard advice with a debt collector is to ignore but file. If you get a "letter before claim" or court papers, then you will need to decide whether to pay or play. If the latter, seek advice at MSE or Pepipoo.
Can you prove you sold it prior to that time? Doesn't have to be conclusive proof, but enough to convince the thickest of PPCs they're barking up the wrong tree.
Otherwise, you're stuck with an ordinary PPC case (with the difference being that you have no information about the parking incident other than what the PPC provides you with). They often make mistakes, which is convenient. for you. Debt collectors have no powers in the UK to enforce payment, and if the debt collector does send this back to the PPC, they don't get paid, so their incentive is to pester you until it is clear that is not going to work. The standard advice with a debt collector is to ignore but file. If you get a "letter before claim" or court papers, then you will need to decide whether to pay or play. If the latter, seek advice at MSE or Pepipoo.
IROC-Z said:
A few weeks back I got a letter from a company called Debt Recovery Plus Ltd requesting £160.00 in payment for a parking fine, specifically parking in a disabled bay without a valid blue badge. The date of the offense was February 2015, the vehicle in question was indeed previously mine, but had been sold in August 2013, and the location I’ve never visited. Suffice to say, it definitely wasn’t me.
I got a letter back from the DVLA today saying that the date of my acquisition of the vehicle was as I expected, but the date of ‘disposal’ was 30/10/2015. So the vehicle was still registered to me (at my old address) until this date, nearly a good two years after I sold it!
I've bought and sold many cars and am a stickler for getting the V5 sent off ASAP, so can only assume it got lost in the post or never processed.
But you didn't receive the change of keeper confirmation, and you would have received tax reminders for it?I got a letter back from the DVLA today saying that the date of my acquisition of the vehicle was as I expected, but the date of ‘disposal’ was 30/10/2015. So the vehicle was still registered to me (at my old address) until this date, nearly a good two years after I sold it!
I've bought and sold many cars and am a stickler for getting the V5 sent off ASAP, so can only assume it got lost in the post or never processed.
When did you move, and how long did you have postal redirection in place for?
IROC-Z said:
As far as DRP are concerned, I was the registered keeper at the time of the parking fine
There's no "as far as they were concerned" - because you were the RK at the time.IROC-Z said:
but I wasn’t the driver and as far as I knew had sold the car.
This is one time that the perennial question mark over going after the keeper is actually valid.We get this a lot when we sell a fleet vehicle into trade - the keeper change doesn't occur at the DVLA until the next purchaser buys it from the trader, but 2 years though is a bit suspicious...
With DRP, we tend to send them a copy of our sales invoice and proof of payment receipt, and that makes it go away.
Given that it has been passed to DRP, you are safe in the knowledge that it will not go to court, so that is one hassle you wont need to deal with. They are very good at sending letters and refusing appeals, but if you show them some sort of proof you disposed of the vehicle, they will refer it back to the issuing company.
With DRP, we tend to send them a copy of our sales invoice and proof of payment receipt, and that makes it go away.
Given that it has been passed to DRP, you are safe in the knowledge that it will not go to court, so that is one hassle you wont need to deal with. They are very good at sending letters and refusing appeals, but if you show them some sort of proof you disposed of the vehicle, they will refer it back to the issuing company.
Thanks for all your replies.
Unfortunately I'm in a tricky position because I don't really have any proof that I sold the car when I did, it was a private sale and any details of the new keeper have long since gone. The only thing I do have is the car advert on PH and I could probably find the bank statement on the day I sold the car when I paid the cash in, hardly conclusive!
To answer the question regards the tax reminders, I moved house around a month or so after I had sold the car and therefore such letters would have been going to my old address (a rental property) and no doubt going straight in the bin, so I never knew that the car was still registered to me. I didn't set up a postal re-direction service since I amended all my addresses with my utility suppliers, my driving license, building society etc at the time of moving and didn't think it was necessary. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!
The 'client' is who I assume to be the owners/proprietors of where the parking notice was issued, which was Meridian Business Park in Leicester.
What I can't get my head round is how the car was still registered to me whilst someone else was presumably taxing it, insuring it and driving around in it!
Unfortunately I'm in a tricky position because I don't really have any proof that I sold the car when I did, it was a private sale and any details of the new keeper have long since gone. The only thing I do have is the car advert on PH and I could probably find the bank statement on the day I sold the car when I paid the cash in, hardly conclusive!
To answer the question regards the tax reminders, I moved house around a month or so after I had sold the car and therefore such letters would have been going to my old address (a rental property) and no doubt going straight in the bin, so I never knew that the car was still registered to me. I didn't set up a postal re-direction service since I amended all my addresses with my utility suppliers, my driving license, building society etc at the time of moving and didn't think it was necessary. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!
The 'client' is who I assume to be the owners/proprietors of where the parking notice was issued, which was Meridian Business Park in Leicester.
What I can't get my head round is how the car was still registered to me whilst someone else was presumably taxing it, insuring it and driving around in it!
I'd be inclined to ignore it, but that is based on my own experiences in dealing with them.
You could request a copy of all documentation relating to the ticket, and then find a way to challenge the keeper liability.. Point out a few obvious flaws in their paperwork, and that'll be the last you hear of it.
I think the ticket will have been issued by UKCPS from that location, but they couldn't comply with POFA 2012 Keeper Liability even if they were guided through it.
If DRP get a good enough reason why the ticket is not enforceable, they do tend to refer it back to their client and move on to the next one.
You could request a copy of all documentation relating to the ticket, and then find a way to challenge the keeper liability.. Point out a few obvious flaws in their paperwork, and that'll be the last you hear of it.
I think the ticket will have been issued by UKCPS from that location, but they couldn't comply with POFA 2012 Keeper Liability even if they were guided through it.
If DRP get a good enough reason why the ticket is not enforceable, they do tend to refer it back to their client and move on to the next one.
IROC-Z said:
Thanks for all your replies.
Unfortunately I'm in a tricky position because I don't really have any proof that I sold the car when I did, it was a private sale and any details of the new keeper have long since gone. The only thing I do have is the car advert on PH and I could probably find the bank statement on the day I sold the car when I paid the cash in, hardly conclusive!
To answer the question regards the tax reminders, I moved house around a month or so after I had sold the car and therefore such letters would have been going to my old address (a rental property) and no doubt going straight in the bin, so I never knew that the car was still registered to me. I didn't set up a postal re-direction service since I amended all my addresses with my utility suppliers, my driving license, building society etc at the time of moving and didn't think it was necessary. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!
The 'client' is who I assume to be the owners/proprietors of where the parking notice was issued, which was Meridian Business Park in Leicester.
What I can't get my head round is how the car was still registered to me whilst someone else was presumably taxing it, insuring it and driving around in it!
Did you send off the V5 following the sale?Unfortunately I'm in a tricky position because I don't really have any proof that I sold the car when I did, it was a private sale and any details of the new keeper have long since gone. The only thing I do have is the car advert on PH and I could probably find the bank statement on the day I sold the car when I paid the cash in, hardly conclusive!
To answer the question regards the tax reminders, I moved house around a month or so after I had sold the car and therefore such letters would have been going to my old address (a rental property) and no doubt going straight in the bin, so I never knew that the car was still registered to me. I didn't set up a postal re-direction service since I amended all my addresses with my utility suppliers, my driving license, building society etc at the time of moving and didn't think it was necessary. Hindsight is a wonderful thing!
The 'client' is who I assume to be the owners/proprietors of where the parking notice was issued, which was Meridian Business Park in Leicester.
What I can't get my head round is how the car was still registered to me whilst someone else was presumably taxing it, insuring it and driving around in it!
I would go onto Pepipoo website and read up on DRP.
In slightly different circumstances, they sent me at least 10 threats, offers and claims. Under several different company letterheads. They will warn you of the dire consequences of getting a CCJ.
I ignored them and they eventually gave up. Be careful but there business model appears to be intimidating people into paying up.
In slightly different circumstances, they sent me at least 10 threats, offers and claims. Under several different company letterheads. They will warn you of the dire consequences of getting a CCJ.
I ignored them and they eventually gave up. Be careful but there business model appears to be intimidating people into paying up.
We have all read stories about how tHe DVLA has been known to make a mistake or lose the odd change of keeper.
Therefore the lesson learnt here is to be doubly sure you get a dated and timed receipt, if there's any chance that the new owner is a bit 'special'.
A poor choice in parking, is probably one of the lesser crimes they could commit, but pass on to the old keeper.
Therefore the lesson learnt here is to be doubly sure you get a dated and timed receipt, if there's any chance that the new owner is a bit 'special'.
A poor choice in parking, is probably one of the lesser crimes they could commit, but pass on to the old keeper.
TooMany2cvs said:
Kuji said:
Therefore the lesson learnt here is to be doubly sure you get a dated and timed receipt, if there's any chance that the new owner is a bit 'special'.
Or simply to watch out for the keeper-change confirmation, and chase it up if it doesn't arrive.TooMany2cvs said:
Kuji said:
Therefore the lesson learnt here is to be doubly sure you get a dated and timed receipt, if there's any chance that the new owner is a bit 'special'.
Or simply to watch out for the keeper-change confirmation, and chase it up if it doesn't arrive.I will also add keeping paperwork like that in a dated box in the loft, for a few years.
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