172 NIP Don't know who was driving etc.

[aceparts_com]

Hi all,
wondered if anyone had any tips. Recently our company van was spotted cruising up the M2 at an outrageous 63mph in a 50mph speed limit (road works apparently) but as all four of us drive the van all of the time I (the MD) don't have a clue who was at the wheel.
I've been sent the photographic evidence but due to the reflective screen, only the faintest outline can be seen.
I've replied stating I don't know who was driving and all they've done is replied back stating I must name someone and they're getting ready to take it to court.

Any ideas on where I stand? They told me that the company has a legal obligation to keep a record of all drivers. Is this true? Should I get a solicitor or DIY it?
Cheers

[DeMolay]

You really need to get over to www.pepipoo.com

As I understand it, the requirements on company vehicles are different. Get to pepipoo as they have loads of people that can help you out.

[streaky]

RTA 1991 S21(2) requires the RK to identify the driver. S21(3) makes it an offence for the RK to fail to comply. S21(4) provides a defence if the RK shows that he did not know who the driver was and could not have found out by using "reasonable diligence".

WRT limited companies, S21(6) provides that to establish the S21(4) defence the company must prove that in addition to S21(4) the company did not keep a record of who was driving the vehicle and that the failure so to do was reasonable.

But note also S21(5) which states that, where a director or senior manager of the company caused or connived with the failure to identify the driver they are also guilty.

Companies can be fined but can't get points; however, Directors (likely the Company Secretary) can. It appears that most forces prosecute the company and not the Director(s) as this more easily leads to a conviction and fine. [It IS about money afterall!]

Don't forget to check www.pepipoo.com .

Streaky

[Dwight VanDriver]

There was an appeal last week in Cleveland (I believe) where person with multi veh/drivers failed to name driver having been flashed on the grounds they did not know. Apparently convicted at Mags Court entered an appeal which the Judge held. But he did say that under such circumstances records should be kept, a fact an inspiring CPS lawyer will now use?

DVD

[parrot of doom]

If its a LTD company they'll go after the company secretary.

So long as you can show the judge you have taken reasonable steps to try and find out who was driving, chances are you'll be ok. This includes questioning each driver, checking receipts for petrol, looking at diaries, etc.

If you just turn up to court and say 'I don't know' then they'll do ya.

[kevinday]

If your vehicle log book says 'Journey from A to B, xxx miles, drivers A, B, C & D at varying times' would that comply with the requirements?

[Flat in Fifth]

Dwight VanDriver said:

There was an appeal last week in Cleveland (I believe) where person with multi veh/drivers failed to name driver having been flashed on the grounds they did not know. Apparently convicted at Mags Court entered an appeal which the Judge held. But he did say that under such circumstances records should be kept, a fact an inspiring CPS lawyer will now use? DVD

Hartlepool, using the 'Roberts defence' so named after Chief Supt Adrain Roberts of Cleveland.

Link here