In charge of a vehicle ?
Discussion
Can anybody help me to prove the statutory defence of no intention to drive the car whilst over the legal limit for cannabis. Unfortunately I had gone for a meal with my partner whose birthday it was and who had recently been involved in a serious motorbike accident he was smoking cannabis to help with his pain. I know it's totally illegal to smoke it but as I was leaving the car that i had parked up for the night and had no intention of driving again because we were having a meal and staying out for the evening drinking I stupidly had 2 puffs of his spliff as I suffer with anxeity. I know that ignorance is not defence and i should have walked well away from my car first instead of trying to be discret.
I got out of the car but my partner had left his window open so I had to get back in to close it i put the key in but never turned the ignition as the police pulled up next to the car they smelt it and I was arrested. I was interviewed and I explained I wasn't going to drive but they charged me with being in charge of vehicle. My blood was taken and has come back very low as 3.5. I have heard of the statutory defence but how do i convince the majastrates I would not have driven. The restaurant I was going does not take bookings its basically there word against mine. I even got my sister to pick the car up the following day as I would never drive with even the next day after drinking. Can someone please help me I have a clean licence of 30 years and never even had so much as a parking ticket.
I got out of the car but my partner had left his window open so I had to get back in to close it i put the key in but never turned the ignition as the police pulled up next to the car they smelt it and I was arrested. I was interviewed and I explained I wasn't going to drive but they charged me with being in charge of vehicle. My blood was taken and has come back very low as 3.5. I have heard of the statutory defence but how do i convince the majastrates I would not have driven. The restaurant I was going does not take bookings its basically there word against mine. I even got my sister to pick the car up the following day as I would never drive with even the next day after drinking. Can someone please help me I have a clean licence of 30 years and never even had so much as a parking ticket.
So just to confirm then ;
1. You had been smoking cannabis
2. You were sat in the drivers seat
3. The key was in the ignition..
4. You were almost twice the cannabis limit when your blood was analysed (after, you say, taking 2 puffs on a spliff).
Er.
No. Sorry.
Can't help.
1. You had been smoking cannabis
2. You were sat in the drivers seat
3. The key was in the ignition..
4. You were almost twice the cannabis limit when your blood was analysed (after, you say, taking 2 puffs on a spliff).
Er.
No. Sorry.
Can't help.
Edited by Red 4 on Tuesday 6th February 13:16
When you say you had to get back into the car to do the window up; to what extent were you actually in the car? Sat in the drivers seat, door shut and keys in the ignition is much different to leaning into an open door with the keys in the ignition and one hand obviously on the window controls.
There is no set definition of what "in charge" means and there are a lot of factors including where in the car you were or even how close to it you were, where the keys were, was there any evidence of an intention to drive etc.
If you have indeed been charged and it goes to court, it will be up to the magistrate to decide on if they believe your intentions and for you to prove it. Either way, if you were in the drivers seat with the keys in the ignition and over the limit (no matter on if you planned to drive it or not), I think you maybe fighting a losing battle.
There is no set definition of what "in charge" means and there are a lot of factors including where in the car you were or even how close to it you were, where the keys were, was there any evidence of an intention to drive etc.
If you have indeed been charged and it goes to court, it will be up to the magistrate to decide on if they believe your intentions and for you to prove it. Either way, if you were in the drivers seat with the keys in the ignition and over the limit (no matter on if you planned to drive it or not), I think you maybe fighting a losing battle.
Edited by Uppy89 on Tuesday 6th February 13:19
Red 4 said:
So just to confirm then ;
1. You had been smoking cannabis
2. You were sat in the drivers seat
3. The key was in the ignition..
4. You were almost twice the cannabis limit when your blood was analysed (after, you say, taking 2 puffs on a spliff).
Er.
No. Sorry.
Can't help.
5. They'd just parked the car...1. You had been smoking cannabis
2. You were sat in the drivers seat
3. The key was in the ignition..
4. You were almost twice the cannabis limit when your blood was analysed (after, you say, taking 2 puffs on a spliff).
Er.
No. Sorry.
Can't help.
If you weren't in charge, who was?
You are deemed to remain in charge of the vehicle, even when parked (in a public place), unless you can show you handed charge over to somebody else, or you can show you were no longer in charge AND there was no reasonable prospect of you regaining charge.
There's no fixed definition of in charge. It's up to you to demonstrate the above, which I think is a stretch.
All the stuff about which seat you were in has no bearing on things. It's one way they might show you were in charge, but you could be asleep in the boot and it still wouldn't matter if you can't show somebody else was in charge.
I have no experience beyond friends and I researching the hell out of this a while ago because it happened to somebody we know. Yup, he has a criminal record now.
You are deemed to remain in charge of the vehicle, even when parked (in a public place), unless you can show you handed charge over to somebody else, or you can show you were no longer in charge AND there was no reasonable prospect of you regaining charge.
There's no fixed definition of in charge. It's up to you to demonstrate the above, which I think is a stretch.
All the stuff about which seat you were in has no bearing on things. It's one way they might show you were in charge, but you could be asleep in the boot and it still wouldn't matter if you can't show somebody else was in charge.
I have no experience beyond friends and I researching the hell out of this a while ago because it happened to somebody we know. Yup, he has a criminal record now.
Whiteteeth said:
Can anybody help me to prove the statutory defence of no intention to drive the car whilst over the legal limit for cannabis. Unfortunately I had gone for a meal with my partner whose birthday it was and who had recently been involved in a serious motorbike accident he was smoking cannabis to help with his pain. I know it's totally illegal to smoke it but as I was leaving the car that i had parked up for the night and had no intention of driving again because we were having a meal and staying out for the evening drinking I stupidly had 2 puffs of his spliff as I suffer with anxeity. I know that ignorance is not defence and i should have walked well away from my car first instead of trying to be discret.
I got out of the car but my partner had left his window open so I had to get back in to close it i put the key in but never turned the ignition as the police pulled up next to the car they smelt it and I was arrested. I was interviewed and I explained I wasn't going to drive but they charged me with being in charge of vehicle. My blood was taken and has come back very low as 3.5. I have heard of the statutory defence but how do i convince the majastrates I would not have driven. The restaurant I was going does not take bookings its basically there word against mine. I even got my sister to pick the car up the following day as I would never drive with even the next day after drinking. Can someone please help me I have a clean licence of 30 years and never even had so much as a parking ticket.
I think the words you probably want to look for are "guilty your worship".I got out of the car but my partner had left his window open so I had to get back in to close it i put the key in but never turned the ignition as the police pulled up next to the car they smelt it and I was arrested. I was interviewed and I explained I wasn't going to drive but they charged me with being in charge of vehicle. My blood was taken and has come back very low as 3.5. I have heard of the statutory defence but how do i convince the majastrates I would not have driven. The restaurant I was going does not take bookings its basically there word against mine. I even got my sister to pick the car up the following day as I would never drive with even the next day after drinking. Can someone please help me I have a clean licence of 30 years and never even had so much as a parking ticket.
OP definitely has a problem....
As an aside though, how far does being 'in charge' of a motor vehicle reach? By the definition someone posted further up the thread it could become a little silly.
I'm in my house now. My car is parked outside on a public street. The keys are in my possession. Tonight, I shall probably have a glass of wine or two with dinner. Am I still technically in charge of it?!
As an aside though, how far does being 'in charge' of a motor vehicle reach? By the definition someone posted further up the thread it could become a little silly.
I'm in my house now. My car is parked outside on a public street. The keys are in my possession. Tonight, I shall probably have a glass of wine or two with dinner. Am I still technically in charge of it?!
pip t said:
OP definitely has a problem....
As an aside though, how far does being 'in charge' of a motor vehicle reach? By the definition someone posted further up the thread it could become a little silly.
I'm in my house now. My car is parked outside on a public street. The keys are in my possession. Tonight, I shall probably have a glass of wine or two with dinner. Am I still technically in charge of it?!
No. However, open the door and walk to the car, maybe with intention of grabbing something from the car that you need inside, and you COULD get done if the police believe you intended to drive.As an aside though, how far does being 'in charge' of a motor vehicle reach? By the definition someone posted further up the thread it could become a little silly.
I'm in my house now. My car is parked outside on a public street. The keys are in my possession. Tonight, I shall probably have a glass of wine or two with dinner. Am I still technically in charge of it?!
pip t said:
OP definitely has a problem....
As an aside though, how far does being 'in charge' of a motor vehicle reach? By the definition someone posted further up the thread it could become a little silly.
I'm in my house now. My car is parked outside on a public street. The keys are in my possession. Tonight, I shall probably have a glass of wine or two with dinner. Am I still technically in charge of it?!
This is where the intent bit comes in as well as discretion. If you are enjoying a glass of wine at home, in your comfy clothes with the keys on the side somewhere, it doesn't show you are about to jump in a car and drive it. Plus the police wouldn't have a need to be knocking on your door to find out regardless.As an aside though, how far does being 'in charge' of a motor vehicle reach? By the definition someone posted further up the thread it could become a little silly.
I'm in my house now. My car is parked outside on a public street. The keys are in my possession. Tonight, I shall probably have a glass of wine or two with dinner. Am I still technically in charge of it?!
Being in or very nearby a vehicle with the keys in your pocket or the ignition is a different matter and when you can start getting into some trouble.
pip t said:
OP definitely has a problem....
As an aside though, how far does being 'in charge' of a motor vehicle reach? By the definition someone posted further up the thread it could become a little silly.
I'm in my house now. My car is parked outside on a public street. The keys are in my possession. Tonight, I shall probably have a glass of wine or two with dinner. Am I still technically in charge of it?!
Nope if you wander down to your car and put your key in the ignition whilst still intoxicated you are in charge of a vehicle.As an aside though, how far does being 'in charge' of a motor vehicle reach? By the definition someone posted further up the thread it could become a little silly.
I'm in my house now. My car is parked outside on a public street. The keys are in my possession. Tonight, I shall probably have a glass of wine or two with dinner. Am I still technically in charge of it?!
Was watching Episode 2 of X-Cars the over day and the copper was out chasing a stolen car, pissed up owner of the car arrives and despite the door being wide open and the key in the ignition the copper takes his car keys off him in order not to have to arrest him for drunk in charge so he can actually continue looking for the car thief; the indication seemed to be if he wasn't looking for a car thief the owner would have been arrested.
I really don't like this 'in charge' business. It makes it too easy to nick people when actually there's no problem being created, and in many cases there's no likelihood of a problem being created.
Actually driving a vehicle while in a condition that means you have a diminished ability to do it safely, that's a wholly different matter, and I wouldn't seek to defend that.
With the law as it is currently, the OP's position is a bit tricky, I'd say.
Actually driving a vehicle while in a condition that means you have a diminished ability to do it safely, that's a wholly different matter, and I wouldn't seek to defend that.
With the law as it is currently, the OP's position is a bit tricky, I'd say.
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