Section 47 of Environmental protection act fine

[keemaklan]

Hi all,

One of my fathers stores in Barking has received a fine (the 3rd in the space of 12 months) for the same bloody reason. Now as far as I can tell from the letter that Barking and Dagenham council have sent, it is because our bin was left unlocked and opened. What I can't understand is, why they are fining us for having a bin unlocked and open (big red Biffa bin) when next to ours, is 2 of the councils own bins, without any lids on them and therefore open 24/7.

Of course, before anyone states the obvious, I have had numerous words with the employees at the store about keeping the bastid bin locked at all times, but they fail to accept fault and keep passing the buck on. Sadly I do not know who is leaving the bin open, since it is kept in an alleyway across our store and is not within the scope of any CCTV.

I would like to also know, if this ticket is legitimate and also whether I can appeal against it on any grounds? Not every bin has a bloody lid to it, so why are we constantly being fined for the same sh*ite? I'm sick of tired of Barking and Dagenham council.

Anyone knowledgeable able to shed any light on my situation or should I just suck up and pay the fine again? I don't want to be sacking the entire workforce for the actions of one, and nor do I really want to pay the same frickin fine over and over again.

Regards,

Keemaklan

[mickmcpaddy]

Loony left nazi council, you reap what you sow. Tell them you always lock it and it must be the immigrants they herded en-mass into the borough bin dipping. Then tell them to fk off.

fking communists, burn the lot of them.

[mickmcpaddy]

Now I understand.

https://www.lbbd.gov.uk/council/councillors-and-co...

Its a who's who of scammers and the deranged

[HantsRat]

Make checking the bin part of your regular daily routine a few times?

I know the council won't even collect my bin if the lid won't close.

[s55shh]

Keep it locked and get your staff to put the refuse in the other two open bins instead.

[Plug Life]

Nice red bin. The council are probably envious.

[catfood12]

OP, I can't see how you've breached Section 2 of 4 of the Act. You certainly couldn't be accused of "is likely to cause a nuisance or to be detrimental to the amenities of the locality" based on the photos of the adjacent council bins.

I'd stand firm, reject or ignore the offer of a Fixed Penalty, and invite them to report you, then see them at court.

[keemaklan]

catfood12 said:

OP, I can't see how you've breached Section 2 of 4 of the Act. You certainly couldn't be accused of "is likely to cause a nuisance or to be detrimental to the amenities of the locality" based on the photos of the adjacent council bins.

I'd stand firm, reject or ignore the offer of a Fixed Penalty, and invite them to report you, then see them at court.

Thank you for your response. (And everyone else too). Perhaps an email to the officer would be the first step in the right direction.

Really appreciate the advice.


Can I ask without meaning to be rude, what are your qualifications? I don’t want to start trouble with the council over Steve from the pub on pistonheads telling me to have a go.

[quinny100]

I think they’ve fined you for leaving the bin out on the public highway, rather than it being full or open. You have to keep your rubbish on your own premises.

People round here get fined for leaving their household wheelie bins out in back alleys on days other than collection day.

How do you know they haven’t fined the user of the other two bins?

[hutchst]

You need to study carefully the s.47 Notice that was issued to you on 7th June, to see what you're supposed to be doing. As suggested above it might well be where the bins are, rather than what's in them. I'm not sure that we're allowed to store our rubbish any old where, and particularly in public spaces. A business should have bin stores or compactors or similar.

[keemaklan]

I’ll throw an email to the officer and see what his response is. Get back to you all shortly.

We have kept our bins in the same alleyway for over 10 years, so it’s nothing new.

[superlightr]

keemaklan said:

I’ll throw an email to the officer and see what his response is. Get back to you all shortly.

We have kept our bins in the same alleyway for over 10 years, so it’s nothing new.

in your back alley or someone else's back alley?

as has already been mentioned if you don't own the land its on then that may be the issue.

[keemaklan]

It’s an alleyway just off the high street, opposite our store. We aren’t the only ones who keep the bin there. There are at least three other stores that have private bins kept there from the likes of Biffa.

No one else seems to be getting a ticket!

[InitialDave]

Lock your bin, permanently, and store it elsewhere. Put your rubbish (shorn of any identifying information) in the council ones instead....

[keemaklan]

Dear Sir/Madam



In regards to the fixed penalty notice that has been issued it was noted on 21/12/17 that you had failed to comply with the requirements set by a s.47 notice Environmental Protection Act 1990, this was due to your bin being overfilled and not being locked, the s.47 notice that was issued to X X Limited clearly states that this is part of the requirements of the notice failing to do so is a breach of the notice, for which the business is liable to be prosecuted for the offence however, on this occasion you have received a fixe penalty notice to discharge your liability to the offence.



So, anyone able to tell me if this is worth fighting or should I just cough up, once again.

Thank you!

[essayer]

Assuming the s.47 notice was correctly issued I don’t think you have much choice but to pay it. What exactly does the s.47 you received say?

[Voldemort]

keemaklan said:

What I can't understand is, why they are fining us for having a bin unlocked and open

Have you heard of rats, the plague, the black death?

[surveyor_101]

Deal with contract law and EPA as part of my role as a surveyor.

My experience of London Councils is fine people to raise income and work on threats! Half the time they are barking up the wrong tree!


They are saying you breached one of the following but not very clear which is a poor show as they should be clearer.



Receptacles for commercial or industrial waste.

(2)
If it appears to a waste collection authority that there is likely to be situated, on any premises in its area, commercial waste or industrial waste of a kind which, if the waste is not stored in receptacles of a particular kind, is likely to cause a nuisance or to be detrimental to the amenities of the locality, the authority may, by notice served on him, require the occupier of the premises to provide at the premises receptacles for the storage of such waste of a kind and number specified.


(4)
In making requirements as respects receptacles under subsection (2) above, the authority may, by the notice under that subsection, make provision with respect to—
(a)
the size, construction and maintenance of the receptacles;
(b)
the placing of the receptacles for the purpose of facilitating the emptying of them, and access to the receptacles for that purpose;
(c)
the placing of the receptacles for that purpose on highways or, in Scotland, roads;
(d)
the substances or articles which may or may not be put into the receptacles and the precautions to be taken where particular substances or articles are put into them; and
(e)
the steps to be taken by occupiers of premises to facilitate the collection of waste from the receptacles.


Can't see how this section covers the lid not being locked or closed!

[keemaklan]

surveyor_101 said:

Deal with contract law and EPA as part of my role as a surveyor.

My experience of London Councils is fine people to raise income and work on threats! Half the time they are barking up the wrong tree!


They are saying you breached one of the following but not very clear which is a poor show as they should be clearer.



Receptacles for commercial or industrial waste.

(2)
If it appears to a waste collection authority that there is likely to be situated, on any premises in its area, commercial waste or industrial waste of a kind which, if the waste is not stored in receptacles of a particular kind, is likely to cause a nuisance or to be detrimental to the amenities of the locality, the authority may, by notice served on him, require the occupier of the premises to provide at the premises receptacles for the storage of such waste of a kind and number specified.


(4)
In making requirements as respects receptacles under subsection (2) above, the authority may, by the notice under that subsection, make provision with respect to—
(a)
the size, construction and maintenance of the receptacles;
(b)
the placing of the receptacles for the purpose of facilitating the emptying of them, and access to the receptacles for that purpose;
(c)
the placing of the receptacles for that purpose on highways or, in Scotland, roads;
(d)
the substances or articles which may or may not be put into the receptacles and the precautions to be taken where particular substances or articles are put into them; and
(e)
the steps to be taken by occupiers of premises to facilitate the collection of waste from the receptacles.


Can't see how this section covers the lid not being locked or closed!

You absolute star.

I feel to argue this one out. I’m in a mood for a fight, and perhaps should take this further. Little scared i’ll End up in deep water but let’s see! I have 3 days left to pay up or fight.

[catfood12]

keemaklan said:

Thank you for your response. (And everyone else too). Perhaps an email to the officer would be the first step in the right direction.

Really appreciate the advice.


Can I ask without meaning to be rude, what are your qualifications? I don’t want to start trouble with the council over Steve from the pub on pistonheads telling me to have a go.

OP, I don't have any relevant qualifications, and it is basically Dave from the pub giving you unqualified advice. Take it or leave it, depending on how you feel. I have however now fought twelve council fixed penalties for similar, including some Section 47 ones. It's a money making scheme, with the minimum wage wardens dishing out tickets basically at will. I've had three bin ones, and nine on personal construction sites.

The thing to remember is the fixed penalty is simply an offer to settle or they'll report you to the CPS. If you do break the EPA, you are committing a criminal offence. It's nothing more than blackmail, as they wouldn't benefit from any fine imposed by a court, I doubt they'd be able to claim compensation if it went to court, bu they're expecting you to pay a fixed penalty to them.

Of my twelve, only one went to court, where they didn't present any evidence. I spanked the court for a reasonable Defence Costs Order. The other eleven they wrote back saying after review they'd drop the matter.

Mine were from Feltham and East Dorset. fkers. It's a pain in the arse, but far easier to write a strong letter and save the cash.

Good luck OP.