Planning permission and access
Discussion
Hi,
Does anyone have any experience and advice on the following:
I along with my 3 neighbours own a drive way that runs between our houses. Two houses either side.
The deeds state that we own it 25% each and allow acces to a single property at the end, owned by a Mr and Mrs X. They have just been granted planning permission to build 6 bungalows on their 1 acre behind their house. The house itself is an old farmhouse type and a mess. They are moving and this house will be demolished.
I along with the neighbours objected to the planning but it was appealed and now final decision made and it's been granted.
I'm not against the idea because as the house is a mess it might affect the value if we want to sell and as the couple are old and have no relatives, if they pass on, the house may be empty for a while and a magnet for who knows what!
Last night the builder popped round to introduce himself and explain the timescale etc to build. I mentioned that we owned the drive and how would it work that he gains access when our deeds specific allow it for one property? He seemed to gloss over this and mentioned that he would like to dig up and re lay it at some point during the build. As I was in a hurry I couldn't discuss much further and he is coming back tonight.
Myself and the neighbours are taking legal advice on where we stand, one neighbour in particular is very anti, but in the meantime, how can the builder gain access without our permission, does he actually need it and, can we give up our rights to acces for monetary recompense....or compensation?
The only thing I am really concerned about is that if they re lay the drive and its crap or falls apart within a year due to the extra traffic, the four of us original householders will still be liable, unless we get something in writing.
Does anyone have any experience and advice on the following:
I along with my 3 neighbours own a drive way that runs between our houses. Two houses either side.
The deeds state that we own it 25% each and allow acces to a single property at the end, owned by a Mr and Mrs X. They have just been granted planning permission to build 6 bungalows on their 1 acre behind their house. The house itself is an old farmhouse type and a mess. They are moving and this house will be demolished.
I along with the neighbours objected to the planning but it was appealed and now final decision made and it's been granted.
I'm not against the idea because as the house is a mess it might affect the value if we want to sell and as the couple are old and have no relatives, if they pass on, the house may be empty for a while and a magnet for who knows what!
Last night the builder popped round to introduce himself and explain the timescale etc to build. I mentioned that we owned the drive and how would it work that he gains access when our deeds specific allow it for one property? He seemed to gloss over this and mentioned that he would like to dig up and re lay it at some point during the build. As I was in a hurry I couldn't discuss much further and he is coming back tonight.
Myself and the neighbours are taking legal advice on where we stand, one neighbour in particular is very anti, but in the meantime, how can the builder gain access without our permission, does he actually need it and, can we give up our rights to acces for monetary recompense....or compensation?
The only thing I am really concerned about is that if they re lay the drive and its crap or falls apart within a year due to the extra traffic, the four of us original householders will still be liable, unless we get something in writing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ransom_strip
Sounds a lot like the builder does not have a right of access for the six houses.
The three of you need to get a lawyer / commercial land agent and negotiate. From what you've said, you're in a very powerful position.
Has the builder actually bought the land?
I know its not actually what you asked, but hey, silver linings!
Sounds a lot like the builder does not have a right of access for the six houses.
The three of you need to get a lawyer / commercial land agent and negotiate. From what you've said, you're in a very powerful position.
Has the builder actually bought the land?
I know its not actually what you asked, but hey, silver linings!
Hi,
Yes apparently he has bought the land and told one of the neighbours he starts next week! The planning was only passed a couple of weeks ago but he’s been after the land for a couple of years.
Will speak to him tonight and mention the right of access but he did say he’d looked into everything when I said we owned the drive.
As I said I’m not against it but don’t want to be taken advantage of, and more importantly, can be bribed for a wedge of cash!!!
Solicitor next stop I think.
Yes apparently he has bought the land and told one of the neighbours he starts next week! The planning was only passed a couple of weeks ago but he’s been after the land for a couple of years.
Will speak to him tonight and mention the right of access but he did say he’d looked into everything when I said we owned the drive.
As I said I’m not against it but don’t want to be taken advantage of, and more importantly, can be bribed for a wedge of cash!!!
Solicitor next stop I think.
You need to find out what the other 3 part owners think as it's going to be much harder to fight if they are not fussed.
You need to look at the deeds and determine what the actual deal with access says. You're potentially going to get 6x more traffic on a driveway that you will be responsible for maintaining.
Have a look at the planning application on-line as it will mention access and in fact services arrangements. Post the link and the good people on here can give you some more informed opinion but it does sound like you need a professional to examine the case for you.
You need to look at the deeds and determine what the actual deal with access says. You're potentially going to get 6x more traffic on a driveway that you will be responsible for maintaining.
Have a look at the planning application on-line as it will mention access and in fact services arrangements. Post the link and the good people on here can give you some more informed opinion but it does sound like you need a professional to examine the case for you.
Newky Brown said:
I along with my 3 neighbours own a drive way that runs between our houses. Two houses either side.
The deeds state that we own it 25% each and allow acces to a single property at the end, owned by a Mr and Mrs X. They have just been granted planning permission to build 6 bungalows on their 1 acre behind their house.
What is the EXACT wording? Feel free to obscure the house name and any road names.The deeds state that we own it 25% each and allow acces to a single property at the end, owned by a Mr and Mrs X. They have just been granted planning permission to build 6 bungalows on their 1 acre behind their house.
If there's a right of access to that plot of land, then... these houses are going on that plot of land. So...
TooMany2cvs said:
What is the EXACT wording? Feel free to obscure the house name and any road names.
If there's a right of access to that plot of land, then... these houses are going on that plot of land. So...
Im at work so dont have all the details but is does specifically mention acces to one property, the house number and names of the current occupants.If there's a right of access to that plot of land, then... these houses are going on that plot of land. So...
Solicitors have been consulted previously by our neghbours and it was specifically mentioned by them that we would not allow access to any more than a single property. Thats why i want know why the builder assumes he can just go ahead. I'm asssuming that you can apply and get planning permission on land, but access may be a seperate issue?
Depending on who you talk to, the neighbours are all in agreement. eg Builder told me my immediate neighbour is now ok with it, but later, neighbour across the road said he isnt!! I plan to speak to them all tonight. What i dont want is to get into some long protracted battle as we dont plan being here long. Another neighbour says they now want to move but will make it as diffciult as possible before doing so.
I just want to make sure it's all above board and as mentioned, we arent left liable for repairs to a drive that 6 additional houses use.
I had almost the exact same thing. Neighbour had a right of access over a small gated bit of my back garden/ to access his garden for maintenance with larger equipment that he couldn’t move through his house. It was a row of old terraces and two sides of a plot.
Never had a problem letting through until he decided he wants to build a huge shed (small bungalow) on it. Although many of the neighbours objected as we all saw it would become a house, the council passed it.
He pops up one day with JCB , skip lorry and Hewsons grab truck but I didn’t let him in.
My deeds said nothing about allowing entry for construction purposes, just general maintenance. This didn’t come as a surprise to him but I think he thought I pull just cave in once he got planning permission.
Planning permission is one thing, right of access is another.
Eventually he was forced to change his plan down from a brick built house to a smaller galvanised shed which looked a lot better and couldn’t “accidentally” became another home, which the plans of his original matched exactly.
Had a lot of help from my local councillor actually, who was one of the few against it. He also got me to go to a specialist land solicitor, apologies, I can’t remember the technical term, but they checked the deeds and rights of access and confirmed what I thought.
Saved me living next to six months of construction.
Never had a problem letting through until he decided he wants to build a huge shed (small bungalow) on it. Although many of the neighbours objected as we all saw it would become a house, the council passed it.
He pops up one day with JCB , skip lorry and Hewsons grab truck but I didn’t let him in.
My deeds said nothing about allowing entry for construction purposes, just general maintenance. This didn’t come as a surprise to him but I think he thought I pull just cave in once he got planning permission.
Planning permission is one thing, right of access is another.
Eventually he was forced to change his plan down from a brick built house to a smaller galvanised shed which looked a lot better and couldn’t “accidentally” became another home, which the plans of his original matched exactly.
Had a lot of help from my local councillor actually, who was one of the few against it. He also got me to go to a specialist land solicitor, apologies, I can’t remember the technical term, but they checked the deeds and rights of access and confirmed what I thought.
Saved me living next to six months of construction.
TooMany2cvs said:
Newky Brown said:
I along with my 3 neighbours own a drive way that runs between our houses. Two houses either side.
The deeds state that we own it 25% each and allow acces to a single property at the end, owned by a Mr and Mrs X. They have just been granted planning permission to build 6 bungalows on their 1 acre behind their house.
What is the EXACT wording? Feel free to obscure the house name and any road names.The deeds state that we own it 25% each and allow acces to a single property at the end, owned by a Mr and Mrs X. They have just been granted planning permission to build 6 bungalows on their 1 acre behind their house.
If there's a right of access to that plot of land, then... these houses are going on that plot of land. So...
and would the deeds state Mr & Mrs X or the owner to save changing 4 or 5 agreements every time ownership changed ?Newky Brown said:
Im at work so dont have all the details but is does specifically mention acces to one property, the house number and names of the current occupants.
It's very unlikely the actual occupants are named, because that'd leave the property land-locked for any future sale - clearly unworkable.Newky Brown said:
Solicitors have been consulted previously by our neghbours and it was specifically mentioned by them that we would not allow access to any more than a single property.
What you "would allow" is separate to what's legally documented. You can't unilaterally withdraw a stated RoW, any more than they can unilaterally increase it.Newky Brown said:
I'm asssuming that you can apply and get planning permission on land, but access may be a seperate issue?
Yup.Newky Brown said:
What i dont want is to get into some long protracted battle as we dont plan being here long. Another neighbour says they now want to move but will make it as diffciult as possible before doing so.
You're heading towards something you'll have to declare as a dispute on the Property Information Form when you come to sell. How far down that road do you want to go...?Newky Brown said:
I just want to make sure it's all above board
If everybody agrees, it IS above board, whatever the legals say.It's only if people decide to man the barricades that the legals become relevant.
Newky Brown said:
and as mentioned, we arent left liable for repairs to a drive that 6 additional houses use.
Sounds like they've already agreed to upgrade the surface - but certainly ongoing maintenance should be something you look at getting written agreement for.The exact access wording is key and is not overriden by PP.
You also need to be clear on the wording of the ownership as is it likely that you will need to be unanimous on any agreement.
If the agreement is as you say and there is no other possible access then the developer really is snookered and needs to be getting his cheque book primed,
You also need to be clear on the wording of the ownership as is it likely that you will need to be unanimous on any agreement.
If the agreement is as you say and there is no other possible access then the developer really is snookered and needs to be getting his cheque book primed,
desolate said:
The exact access wording is key and is not overriden by PP.
You also need to be clear on the wording of the ownership as is it likely that you will need to be unanimous on any agreement.
If the agreement is as you say and there is no other possible access then the developer really is snookered and needs to be getting his cheque book primed,
Yes, get legal advice.You also need to be clear on the wording of the ownership as is it likely that you will need to be unanimous on any agreement.
If the agreement is as you say and there is no other possible access then the developer really is snookered and needs to be getting his cheque book primed,
In the best case, the builder now has some inaccessible land that is valueless. How else can he access the land? E.g could he buy another house, demolish it and gain access?
The leverage I'd be going for is an extension to my garden so that the houses are further away than planned.
You need to get a copy of the title register, it will detail everything. Land Registry site should let you do a search.
We live in a similar arrangement and the plan describes access for each house as "a right of way with or without vehicles as appropriate at all times and for all purposes connected to the lawful use of the property over and along the access road". The "property" is the area marked on the plan, not the house itself.
Did the house at the end originally own what is your land and divide it up to build houses + access?
We live in a similar arrangement and the plan describes access for each house as "a right of way with or without vehicles as appropriate at all times and for all purposes connected to the lawful use of the property over and along the access road". The "property" is the area marked on the plan, not the house itself.
Did the house at the end originally own what is your land and divide it up to build houses + access?
Thank you for all the replies.
I will check lunchtime re the wording. I dont really want to get into any dispute that i have to declare at a later date but want to be sure where we stand.
I cant believe the builder has gone ahead and bought the land without access but he may be trying it on.
I will check lunchtime re the wording. I dont really want to get into any dispute that i have to declare at a later date but want to be sure where we stand.
I cant believe the builder has gone ahead and bought the land without access but he may be trying it on.
Sounds like he does have legal access. He owns 25% (if I have understood your posts)
The use of that access is already provided for.
The questions as others have said it the type or restrictions on the access he has - is it stated as access to 1x dwelling or is it general access to that land and/or dwelling and any other conditions/restrictions if any such as maintenance.
The use of that access is already provided for.
The questions as others have said it the type or restrictions on the access he has - is it stated as access to 1x dwelling or is it general access to that land and/or dwelling and any other conditions/restrictions if any such as maintenance.
Edited by superlightr on Tuesday 20th February 10:24
superlightr said:
He owns 25%
I read it as the OP and the 3 other homes own 25% each.Have you got a google satellite view of the property at all so we can understand this?
It sounds like rapid legal action from all 4 of the households needs to be undertaken to stop this getting out of hand - If you do come to an agreement and he does do the driveway, is it possible for A:Something written up properly that says he'll do it after the house building has completed (under some penalty - or the money set aside to do it) and B:Something written up saying it'll be maintained by him/someone.
james_tigerwoods said:
superlightr said:
He owns 25%
I read it as the OP and the 3 other homes own 25% each.Have you got a google satellite view of the property at all so we can understand this?
It sounds like rapid legal action from all 4 of the households needs to be undertaken to stop this getting out of hand - If you do come to an agreement and he does do the driveway, is it possible for A:Something written up properly that says he'll do it after the house building has completed (under some penalty - or the money set aside to do it) and B:Something written up saying it'll be maintained by him/someone.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff