M42 lots of little cameras??

[targarama]

On the Easterly section of the M42, apart from far too much road furniture what are the cameras every 200m or so for? They are facing the direction of travel and look like little cctv stylee cameras. Too many to be a speed checking system. Why not just put them on the numerous gantries? There are dozens of these cameras.

This must be the most confusing section of road in the country now with all the signage. Why not just do what they do in the US and have road number/direction such as 101 North San Francisco, 101 South Los Angeles. Leave the rest the driver - they'll work out where they are.

[TripleS]

targarama said:

On the Easterly section of the M42, apart from far too much road furniture what are the cameras every 200m or so for? They are facing the direction of travel and look like little cctv stylee cameras. Too many to be a speed checking system. Why not just put them on the numerous gantries? There are dozens of these cameras. This must be the most confusing section of road in the country now with all the signage. Why not just do what they do in the US and have road number/direction such as 101 North San Francisco, 101 South Los Angeles. Leave the rest the driver - they'll work out where they are.

What's this, the area between about junctions 5 and 9 where there are lots of gantries with speed camera markings on the road at each one?

It all looks very busy, very complicated, and very expensive to me and I don't like the look of it, but I have no idea what it's all about. Is it a variable speed limit system? Maybe someone can enlighten us.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[ledfoot]

targarama said:

On the Easterly section of the M42, apart from far too much road furniture what are the cameras every 200m or so for? They are facing the direction of travel and look like little cctv stylee cameras. Too many to be a speed checking system. Why not just put them on the numerous gantries? There are dozens of these cameras.

I think they are ANPR, and check the speed of vehicles every 200m or so. They are a small part of the M42 experiment due to go live this summer.

The speed cameras are not installed yet, but they will be on nearly all the new gantrys in the summer, and will be active when the variable speed limits come into force, a bit like on the M25.

ANPR cameras are also installed on all the slip roads.

There was a post some time ago by Bluepolarbear about this.

[regmolehusband]

This is the reason I now travel M6>M5>M42>M40 and vice versa. It's only 1 mile longer and you can travel at an appropriate speed.

[hedders]

targarama said:

Why not just do what they do in the US and have road number/direction such as 101 North San Francisco, 101 South Los Angeles. Leave the rest the driver - they'll work out where they are.

[californian drawl]
I soooo agree with you
[/californian drawl]

Seriously though, I do!

If I am about to get on a motorway I would like to see a sign that tells me where it finishes, not just what the next few major exits are. How hard can it be?

I have to confess, I have a really poor feeling for where I am if I am in new territory and I tend to make the wrong decision like tonight for example:

I took my dad to Heathrow in his Saab 95 Griffin (which I am now borrowing, but thats irrelevant)today and on the way back I thought I was getting on the M4 to the M25 but somehow got my shit in a muddle and ended up on the M4 to wales But if that bloody sign had said "M4 to Wales" and not M4 west or whatever it said, I am sure i would not have screwed it up

After I turned round and went the right way I followed a slip road for the A41 and somehow managed to find an exit off a roundabout that took me back to the M4 to wales again...still I didn't mind too much as the car is quite a lot of fun, especially for an auto

Can't turn Sports Mode on and Traction control Off at the same time though??

[8Pack]

Better than Europe though Hedders, Each country only gives signs for it's own towns and cities if you notice. Even if a major town lies only 5 km over the border!

Imagine that here, nothing west of Ross on Wye, Shrewsbury or Chester would appear on English road signs, and they wouldn't be shown on Welsh signs.

For a "united continent" europe has a lot to learn.

[hugerr]

I don't think the cameras are ANPR.

The M42 is about to be used to trial a new system in which the hard shoulder is used as an extra lane during peak traffic periods. There will also be variable speed limits like the M25.

Clearly the use of the hard shoulder as an extra traffic lane has serious safety issues. If someone breaks down and pulls into the hard shoulder, they wouldn't be too happy about a 40-tonner bearing down on them at 56mph.

So, 'safety refuges' (lay-bys to you and me) have been built every half kilometre or so for people to push their cars into when broken down, and loads of cameras have been installed every couple of hundred metres to monitor the hard shoulder and safety refuges.

If these cameras detect stationary traffic the lane-controlling signals on the overhead gantrys are supposed to warn oncoming drivers that the lane is closed ahead.... Could be a great laugh when it all goes live -- as long as you aren't on the hard shoulder at the time!

Its the same on both sides of the M42 between the M40 and M6 interchanges.

I don't know about any plans for Specs cameras, but I expect there will be some sort of speed camera system in use when the variable speed and peak-time fourth lane system is up and running.

Hope that clarifies things a little.

hugh

[sadako]

A metric asston of little cameras are springing up around here. The M27 has them, as do most of the major thoroughfares. Where there arn't cameras yet there are unoccupied posts for them.

[ledfoot]

I have found all the original information on the M42 cameras.

bluepolarbear said:

There are speed camera signs on all the new gantries but they are not there yet. The roadworks are actually to turn that part of the m42 into a giant experient. A number of of new "theories" are being trailled including use of hard shoulder at peak time. As you can imagine speed is also a factor. General traffic speed will be measured every 100m and the individual speed of each vehicle (tagged by ANPR) every 500m. Variable speed limits will apply. ANPR will also apply to the slip roads to allow a) slip roads to be controlled by traffic lights and to know where you leave the motorway.

www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=123768&f=10&h=0&hw=m42

www.thisislondon.co.uk/traffic/articles/4695328?source=Evening%20Standa

[Flat in Fifth]

8Pack said:

Better than Europe though Hedders, Each country only gives signs for it's own towns and cities if you notice. Even if a major town lies only 5 km over the border! Imagine that here, nothing west of Ross on Wye, Shrewsbury or Chester would appear on English road signs, and they wouldn't be shown on Welsh signs. For a "united continent" europe has a lot to learn.

I never did manage to find that town "Ausfahrt"

sorry, hat, coat, door......

[stooz]

sadly, everyone thinks the cameras are 'live' ignoring the 'signs not in use' placard and trundelling along at 65 in every lane.

traffic jam every day

[bluepolarbear]

stooz said:

sadly, everyone thinks the cameras are 'live' ignoring the 'signs not in use' placard and trundelling along at 65 in every lane. traffic jam every day

Yeah its a lot worse since they mucked around with it. Stick to the back roads these days much more fun at higher speeds

Thanks for ledfoot for pulling my orginal post

[streaky]

hedders said:

targarama said: Why not just do what they do in the US and have road number/direction such as 101 North San Francisco, 101 South Los Angeles. Leave the rest the driver - they'll work out where they are. If I am about to get on a motorway I would like to see a sign that tells me where it finishes, not just what the next few major exits are.

So, get on I-95 at Houlton, ME and the sign reads Miami, FL 1,907 miles (IIRC). On CA-1, a sign that read Olema 8 miles / Leggett 146 miles was rather disconcerting when it was lunchtime and the 'City Limits' sign at Olema informed us that it boasted 55 inhabitants .

8Pack said:

Imagine that here, nothing west of Ross on Wye, Shrewsbury or Chester would appear on English road signs, and they wouldn't be shown on Welsh signs.

And that's a problem? Actually, the BBC used to think that the "West Country" ended at Bristol!

And, BTW, where the heck is that place in Wales called "Gwasanaethau" - it's signposted all along the M4 .
Streaky

[supraman2954]

hugerr said:

Clearly the use of the hard shoulder as an extra traffic lane has serious safety issues......... So, 'safety refuges' (lay-bys to you and me) have been built every half kilometre or so for people to push their cars into when broken down,

you are taking the pi55, right?

I'm not going to push a car, especially one like mine, for up to 250 metres, with cars/truck rushing past me in the next lane, with numpties potentially unaware they should not be in my lane.

[einion yrth]

supraman2954 said:

hugerr said: Clearly the use of the hard shoulder as an extra traffic lane has serious safety issues......... So, 'safety refuges' (lay-bys to you and me) have been built every half kilometre or so for people to push their cars into when broken down, you are taking the pi55, right? I'm not going to push a car, especially one like mine, for up to 250 metres, with cars/truck rushing past me in the next lane, with numpties potentially unaware they should not be in my lane.

Oh this will go horribly and fatally wrong, no doubt about that. Just try and make sure that you aren't there to suffer.

[Peter Ward]

einion yrth said:

supraman2954 said: hugerr said: Clearly the use of the hard shoulder as an extra traffic lane has serious safety issues......... So, 'safety refuges' (lay-bys to you and me) have been built every half kilometre or so for people to push their cars into when broken down, you are taking the pi55, right? I'm not going to push a car, especially one like mine, for up to 250 metres, with cars/truck rushing past me in the next lane, with numpties potentially unaware they should not be in my lane. Oh this will go horribly and fatally wrong, no doubt about that. Just try and make sure that you aren't there to suffer.

You cannot be serious? A motorway by definition has a hard shoulder. Motorways which, due to widening, are without hard shoulders for short distances, have huge great signs saying "No hard shoulder for xx yards". Nobody in the right minds would use the hard shoulder as a running lane and then build little laybys every now and then as a substitute hard shoulder..... would they?

I would imagine that such roads would be potentially more dangerous than contraflow roadworks, and would merit similar speed limits. Cue a call for blanket 40mph limits on such "motorways".

[pdV6]

Flat in Fifth said:

I never did manage to find that town "Ausfahrt"

Its a couple of clicks west of Sortie

[Flat in Fifth]

Peter Ward said:

einion yrth said: supraman2954 said: hugerr said: Clearly the use of the hard shoulder as an extra traffic lane has serious safety issues......... So, 'safety refuges' (lay-bys to you and me) have been built every half kilometre or so for people to push their cars into when broken down, you are taking the pi55, right? I'm not going to push a car, especially one like mine, for up to 250 metres, with cars/truck rushing past me in the next lane, with numpties potentially unaware they should not be in my lane. Oh this will go horribly and fatally wrong, no doubt about that. Just try and make sure that you aren't there to suffer. You cannot be serious?

Sadly they are, deadly serious. Unfortunate but appropriate choice of words there.

They say that the hard shoulder running will be allowed only under conditions of extreme load on the network. Of course those are exactly the conditions when keeping that safety space around vehicles is the most difficult.

Just one breakdown and it will all go tits up. There will be tears.

[tvr33]

And 2 Jags has refused to rule out building a new motorway service area between Junctions 5 & 6. The fact that no-one needs it or wants it is ignored.

[hugerr]

Flat in Fifth said:

Peter Ward said: einion yrth said: supraman2954 said: hugerr said: Clearly the use of the hard shoulder as an extra traffic lane has serious safety issues......... So, 'safety refuges' (lay-bys to you and me) have been built every half kilometre or so for people to push their cars into when broken down, you are taking the pi55, right? I'm not going to push a car, especially one like mine, for up to 250 metres, with cars/truck rushing past me in the next lane, with numpties potentially unaware they should not be in my lane. Oh this will go horribly and fatally wrong, no doubt about that. Just try and make sure that you aren't there to suffer. You cannot be serious? Sadly they are, deadly serious. Unfortunate but appropriate choice of words there. They say that the hard shoulder running will be allowed only under conditions of extreme load on the network. Of course those are exactly the conditions when keeping that safety space around vehicles is the most difficult. Just one breakdown and it will all go tits up. There will be tears.

Sorry for the quotes in quotes, but no I'm not taking the pi55. That is the plan. Ideally, if your car has a problem you will be able to coast into the nearest 'refuge', but if you end up on the hard shoulder between refuges I guess you will either be towed or pushed into one! Doesn't bear thinking about does it!

The cameras and huge active signs are supposed to make it possible to monitor the use of the hard shoulder and maintain a safe system. It doesn't seem credible to me,but we'll have to wait and see. It is supposed to only be an experiment, but the works have cost millions and I can't see the government coming out in a year's time and saying it was a failure, can you?

And any accidents that do happen will undoubtedly be the result of excessive speed....

hugh