Amber characters = real speed limit?
Discussion
On message boards by the motorway, I'm now seeing a red circle with a black background containing amber characters, 50 or 60. Only one message board so applies to all lanes. Sometimes accompanied by explanatory text, "Debris in road" for example.
Is that configuration an advisory speed limit, like the old boards in the central reservation, or does it carry the full effect of a mandatory speed limit sign?
Alamy has a few examples here.
Is that configuration an advisory speed limit, like the old boards in the central reservation, or does it carry the full effect of a mandatory speed limit sign?
Alamy has a few examples here.
HantsRat said:
Compulsory. Thought this was common knowledge ?
Alas I suspect 95% of drivers haven't looked at a highway code since they did their test, and have only the vaguest working knowledge of the contents.The ignorance of some of the people who attended a speed awareness course was depressing - 20% didn't know what the national speed limit was for main road and more got it wrong for a dual carriageway
TooMany2cvs said:
HantsRat said:
Compulsory. Thought this was common knowledge ?
People have clearly forgotten a lot since they had to know the HC for their driving test...Gavia said:
I agree, but a significant part of me thinks that the OP is looking for a loophole as he incorrectly believes it should be black text on a white background with a red circle for it to be compulsory.
They did have to let a whole load of off with speeding on the M42 variable as the font was wrong.Sheepshanks said:
They did have to let a whole load of off with speeding on the M42 variable as the font was wrong.
Did they all get away with it in the end? In any case the rules were changed around that side of things to prevent it happening again. Would the OP care to confirm or deny my suspicions?
There is no threat to my licence and I ask out of idle curiosity. As the head height boards in the central reservation that display amber characters are not compulsory I wondered whether these were similar. As you were.
As for reading the HC, can someone provide a link to this style of sign in official documentation. I see that it is the red circle that implies the sign is mandatory, although the HC says "mostly prohibitive". OK.
I would rather that the signs were black on white as is universally recognised rather than amber on black.
As for reading the HC, can someone provide a link to this style of sign in official documentation. I see that it is the red circle that implies the sign is mandatory, although the HC says "mostly prohibitive". OK.
I would rather that the signs were black on white as is universally recognised rather than amber on black.
OverSteery said:
Alas I suspect 95% of drivers haven't looked at a highway code since they did their test, and have only the vaguest working knowledge of the contents.
The ignorance of some of the people who attended a speed awareness course was depressing - 20% didn't know what the national speed limit was for main road and more got it wrong for a dual carriageway
And a depressingly high proportion don't even know what a dual carriageway is. The ignorance of some of the people who attended a speed awareness course was depressing - 20% didn't know what the national speed limit was for main road and more got it wrong for a dual carriageway
speedking31 said:
There is no threat to my licence and I ask out of idle curiosity. As the head height boards in the central reservation that display amber characters are not compulsory I wondered whether these were similar. As you were.
As for reading the HC, can someone provide a link to this style of sign in official documentation. I see that it is the red circle that implies the sign is mandatory, although the HC says "mostly prohibitive". OK.
I would rather that the signs were black on white as is universally recognised rather than amber on black.
The Highway Code simply refers to red ring signs...”Red rings or circles tell you what you must not do, e.g. you must not exceed 30 mph, no vehicles over the height shown may proceed”..As for reading the HC, can someone provide a link to this style of sign in official documentation. I see that it is the red circle that implies the sign is mandatory, although the HC says "mostly prohibitive". OK.
I would rather that the signs were black on white as is universally recognised rather than amber on black.
It does not say what colours must be inside the red ring. The Highway Code does show examples of red ringed with black numbers on a white background for speed limits, but for me the initial note (page 9 of HC) about red-ringed signs, tells me all I need.
However, I do get pissed off when drivers brake when they see an advisory sign on any road, but people react especially badly on a motorway to advisory signs.
CanAm said:
OverSteery said:
Alas I suspect 95% of drivers haven't looked at a highway code since they did their test, and have only the vaguest working knowledge of the contents.
The ignorance of some of the people who attended a speed awareness course was depressing - 20% didn't know what the national speed limit was for main road and more got it wrong for a dual carriageway
And a depressingly high proportion don't even know what a dual carriageway is. The ignorance of some of the people who attended a speed awareness course was depressing - 20% didn't know what the national speed limit was for main road and more got it wrong for a dual carriageway
Sheepshanks said:
Gavia said:
I agree, but a significant part of me thinks that the OP is looking for a loophole as he incorrectly believes it should be black text on a white background with a red circle for it to be compulsory.
They did have to let a whole load of off with speeding on the M42 variable as the font was wrong.https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/9919346/Speed...
As above in a red circle I wouldn't risk it but would be interested to know if the font (colour) was approved, if not it has no legal standing at all.
As above in a red circle I wouldn't risk it but would be interested to know if the font (colour) was approved, if not it has no legal standing at all.
IIRC it didn't really hold the signs up as lawful. They were deemed to be sufficiently correct that the motorists should have been able to determine their meaning (see deteriorated double yellow lines or similar). The law was then revised to allow similar non-conforming fonts to be used. IMO the difference between the 5 and 6 in the 'new' font was not sufficiently clear compared to the correct font.
Funny how if you use an 'incorrect' font on a number plate or vary the spacing by a few mm that you will feel the full force of the law, but HMG can use something that's 'similar' and get away with it.
Funny how if you use an 'incorrect' font on a number plate or vary the spacing by a few mm that you will feel the full force of the law, but HMG can use something that's 'similar' and get away with it.
The Rookie said:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/9919346/Speed...
As above in a red circle I wouldn't risk it but would be interested to know if the font (colour) was approved, if not it has no legal standing at all.
Headline in your link: "Speeding motorists could be let off because of 'wrong font' on signs" They were not as far as I am aware.As above in a red circle I wouldn't risk it but would be interested to know if the font (colour) was approved, if not it has no legal standing at all.
Further down in the article:
"Richard Bentley, a traffic management consultant and former police officer, thinks it is only fair that previous speeding fines, points and driving bans be reconsidered.
"There should be a situation where cases are opened in the magistrates court to have the cases reheard and the convictions quashed," he told the BBC.
"If there are no traffic signs the Act of Parliament prohibits the conviction and these are definitely not traffic signs."
The regulations governing variable speed limit signs are set out in a government document called Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002.
If a sign fails to comply with the document's specification then it needs separate approval from the Department for Transport before it can be used as a means of enforcement.
That did not happen in this instance. "
The district judge wasn't convinced by this nonsense and ruled the signs were approved as the Highways Agency said they were.
The police did hold prosecutions between the challenge and the case hearing then turned the cameras back on.
ghe13rte said:
Sheepshanks said:
Gavia said:
I agree, but a significant part of me thinks that the OP is looking for a loophole as he incorrectly believes it should be black text on a white background with a red circle for it to be compulsory.
They did have to let a whole load of off with speeding on the M42 variable as the font was wrong.Sheepshanks said:
ghe13rte said:
Sheepshanks said:
Gavia said:
I agree, but a significant part of me thinks that the OP is looking for a loophole as he incorrectly believes it should be black text on a white background with a red circle for it to be compulsory.
They did have to let a whole load of off with speeding on the M42 variable as the font was wrong.ghe13rte said:
Oh I see. All you needed to do was use different words. Everyone would then have known what you meant and nobody would have spotted what you said was wrong and maybe was intended to be mischevious.
Not really, I didn't say they had to concede appeals. I'm not aware that's ever happened retrospectively with speed signage issues.Sheepshanks said:
ghe13rte said:
Oh I see. All you needed to do was use different words. Everyone would then have known what you meant and nobody would have spotted what you said was wrong and maybe was intended to be mischevious.
Not really, I didn't say they had to concede appeals. I'm not aware that's ever happened retrospectively with speed signage issues.We can agree to differ of course but the words you chose convey the meaning that motorists were caught and then not prosecuted; that simply did not occur and you could have clearly written exactly what you meant.
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