U-Turn across solid white line?
Discussion
Is it illegal to make a U-turn which involves crossing a continuous white line in the middle of the road?
I have been giving some thought to this recently because I had to drive from my home near the City of London to West London. This involves getting from The Embankment to the A4, the typical route for this being to turn right off Embankment onto Northumberland Avenue; the problem with that is there's always a very long queue in the filter lane.
You could bypass this queue by driving a bit further down Embankment, making a U-turn on Embankment outside the MOD, then turning left onto Northumberland Avenue (no queue). However, there is a solid white line down the entire section of Embankment where you'd need to make the U-turn.
The Highway Code on solid white lines doesn't mention U-turns in the exemptions, which suggests they're not allowed:
'29
Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26'
But this also suggests that you could legally make a U-turn by making a right turn into a side road and turning round in that.
So in my example above, could I turn right (across the solid white line) into the MOD entrance, turn round before getting to the MOD security barrier, and head back in the other direction down Embankment (and then turn left into Northumberland Avenue)?
I have been giving some thought to this recently because I had to drive from my home near the City of London to West London. This involves getting from The Embankment to the A4, the typical route for this being to turn right off Embankment onto Northumberland Avenue; the problem with that is there's always a very long queue in the filter lane.
You could bypass this queue by driving a bit further down Embankment, making a U-turn on Embankment outside the MOD, then turning left onto Northumberland Avenue (no queue). However, there is a solid white line down the entire section of Embankment where you'd need to make the U-turn.
The Highway Code on solid white lines doesn't mention U-turns in the exemptions, which suggests they're not allowed:
'29
Double white lines where the line nearest you is solid. This means you MUST NOT cross or straddle it unless it is safe and you need to enter adjoining premises or a side road. You may cross the line if necessary, provided the road is clear, to pass a stationary vehicle, or overtake a pedal cycle, horse or road maintenance vehicle, if they are travelling at 10 mph (16 km/h) or less.
Laws RTA 1988 sect 36 & TSRGD regs 10 & 26'
But this also suggests that you could legally make a U-turn by making a right turn into a side road and turning round in that.
So in my example above, could I turn right (across the solid white line) into the MOD entrance, turn round before getting to the MOD security barrier, and head back in the other direction down Embankment (and then turn left into Northumberland Avenue)?
ruggedscotty said:
U turn allowed. double lines is no overtaking.
pull in and stop check and complete the u turn not an issue
They do not mean no overtaking (you can overtake as long as you don't cross straddle the line) They mean you may not cross or straddle the line save for the listed exemptions.pull in and stop check and complete the u turn not an issue
Exemptions are
(5) Nothing in sub-paragraph (1)(b) is to be taken to prohibit a vehicle from being driven across, or so as to straddle, the continuous line referred to in that paragraph, if it is safe to do so and if necessary to do so—
(a)to enable the vehicle to enter, from the side of the road on which it is proceeding, land or premises adjacent to the length of road on which the line is placed, or another road joining that road;
(b)in order to pass a stationary vehicle;
(c)owing to circumstances outside the control of the driver;
(d)in order to avoid an accident;
(e)in order to pass a road maintenance vehicle which is in use, is moving at a speed not exceeding 10 mph, and is displaying to the rear a sign provided for at item 9 or 10 of the sign table in Part 6 of Schedule 13;
(f)in order to pass a pedal cycle moving at a speed not exceeding 10 mph;
(g)in order to pass a horse that is being ridden or led at a speed not exceeding 10 mph; or
(h)for the purposes of complying with any direction of a constable in uniform, a traffic officer in uniform or a traffic warden.
Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 7th April 22:44
Can't you still turn right off the embankment into Savoy Place? Drive past the rear entrance to the Savoy, almost to the dead end and turn right into Lower Robert Street? Then you drive under the building (it's quite tight for a big car and I'm not sure you'd get a van through), emerge at the upper level onto John Adam Street then onto the Strand.
hutchst said:
Can't you still turn right off the embankment into Savoy Place? Drive past the rear entrance to the Savoy, almost to the dead end and turn right into Lower Robert Street? Then you drive under the building (it's quite tight for a big car and I'm not sure you'd get a van through), emerge at the upper level onto John Adam Street then onto the Strand.
I don't think there's any access from Savoy Place to Lower Robert Street. You could drive round the Savoy, then up Savoy Street onto the eastern end of the Strand, but traffic is often bad on the Strand...vonhosen said:
ruggedscotty said:
U turn allowed. double lines is no overtaking.
pull in and stop check and complete the u turn not an issue
They do not mean no overtaking (you can overtake as long as you don't cross straddle the line) They mean you may not cross or straddle the line save for the listed exemptions.pull in and stop check and complete the u turn not an issue
Exemptions are
(5) Nothing in sub-paragraph (1)(b) is to be taken to prohibit a vehicle from being driven across, or so as to straddle, the continuous line referred to in that paragraph, if it is safe to do so and if necessary to do so—
(a)to enable the vehicle to enter, from the side of the road on which it is proceeding, land or premises adjacent to the length of road on which the line is placed, or another road joining that road;
(b)in order to pass a stationary vehicle;
(c)owing to circumstances outside the control of the driver;
(d)in order to avoid an accident;
(e)in order to pass a road maintenance vehicle which is in use, is moving at a speed not exceeding 10 mph, and is displaying to the rear a sign provided for at item 9 or 10 of the sign table in Part 6 of Schedule 13;
(f)in order to pass a pedal cycle moving at a speed not exceeding 10 mph;
(g)in order to pass a horse that is being ridden or led at a speed not exceeding 10 mph; or
(h)for the purposes of complying with any direction of a constable in uniform, a traffic officer in uniform or a traffic warden.
Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 7th April 22:44
double solid line is for all intensive purposes a prohibition of overtaking. it dosent stop you doing as the OP was asking. I was answering his question. All that you quoted is right though so thank you.
ruggedscotty said:
vonhosen said:
ruggedscotty said:
U turn allowed. double lines is no overtaking.
pull in and stop check and complete the u turn not an issue
They do not mean no overtaking (you can overtake as long as you don't cross straddle the line) They mean you may not cross or straddle the line save for the listed exemptions.pull in and stop check and complete the u turn not an issue
Exemptions are
(5) Nothing in sub-paragraph (1)(b) is to be taken to prohibit a vehicle from being driven across, or so as to straddle, the continuous line referred to in that paragraph, if it is safe to do so and if necessary to do so—
(a)to enable the vehicle to enter, from the side of the road on which it is proceeding, land or premises adjacent to the length of road on which the line is placed, or another road joining that road;
(b)in order to pass a stationary vehicle;
(c)owing to circumstances outside the control of the driver;
(d)in order to avoid an accident;
(e)in order to pass a road maintenance vehicle which is in use, is moving at a speed not exceeding 10 mph, and is displaying to the rear a sign provided for at item 9 or 10 of the sign table in Part 6 of Schedule 13;
(f)in order to pass a pedal cycle moving at a speed not exceeding 10 mph;
(g)in order to pass a horse that is being ridden or led at a speed not exceeding 10 mph; or
(h)for the purposes of complying with any direction of a constable in uniform, a traffic officer in uniform or a traffic warden.
Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 7th April 22:44
double solid line is for all intensive purposes a prohibition of overtaking. it dosent stop you doing as the OP was asking. I was answering his question. All that you quoted is right though so thank you.
ruggedscotty said:
In the context of the original question my answer still stands as valid.
double solid line is for all intensive purposes a prohibition of overtaking. it dosent stop you doing as the OP was asking. I was answering his question. All that you quoted is right though so thank you.
No. The rule is you cannot cross or straddle a solid white line on your side of the road except under the exemptions, it isn't a prohibition of overtaking. Whether it's double or not is irrelevant. double solid line is for all intensive purposes a prohibition of overtaking. it dosent stop you doing as the OP was asking. I was answering his question. All that you quoted is right though so thank you.
ruggedscotty said:
U turn allowed. double lines is no overtaking.
pull in and stop check and complete the u turn not an issue
Could you provide more information as to why you consider it's within the law to do a U-Turn here?pull in and stop check and complete the u turn not an issue
I have looked up the legislation referenced in the highway code which is in Reg 26 - it's basically the same as the Highway Code:
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2002/3113/regul...
26 (2) (b) says:
'subject to paragraph (6), every vehicle proceeding on any length of road along which the marking has been so placed that, as viewed in the direction of travel of the vehicle, a continuous line is on the left of a broken line or of another continuous line, shall be so driven as to keep the first-mentioned continuous line on the right hand or off side of the vehicle.'
So where the road is marked with the lines described above, you can't cross that line, except for the listed exemptions, and making a U-Turn is not one of the exemptions, which makes me think it would be illegal to make a U-Turn.
I'm also not sure that in my specific example it would be legal to turn right across the solid line into the MOD entrance, considering the exact wording of the exemption in Reg 26 (6) (a): 'to enable the vehicle to enter, from the side of the road on which it is proceeding, land or premises adjacent to the length of road on which the line is placed, or another road joining that road.' The problem here is that I would not be making the turn in order to enter the PREMISES of the MOD; I am not even authorised to enter their premises.
What's unusual in the case of the Embankment is that the line in the middle of a road is a single solid line instead of a double one (or solid + broken), so strictly speaking this situation doesn't appear to be covered by the Reg 26 wording above, which refers to markings where 'a continuous line is on the left of a broken line or of another continuous line'. I'm not sure what to make of that.
Anyway, it occurs to me that the purpose of the solid line on Embankment might be specifically to stop people making U-Turns, as it's unlikely anyone would overtake there (is it illegal to overtake in a 30mph limit anyway?).
hutchst said:
Can't you still turn right off the embankment into Savoy Place? Drive past the rear entrance to the Savoy, almost to the dead end and turn right into Lower Robert Street? Then you drive under the building (it's quite tight for a big car and I'm not sure you'd get a van through), emerge at the upper level onto John Adam Street then onto the Strand.
Mornington Crescent.Sbloxxy said:
hutchst said:
Can't you still turn right off the embankment into Savoy Place? Drive past the rear entrance to the Savoy, almost to the dead end and turn right into Lower Robert Street? Then you drive under the building (it's quite tight for a big car and I'm not sure you'd get a van through), emerge at the upper level onto John Adam Street then onto the Strand.
Mornington Crescent.No u-turns on a solid white line.
driver said:
What's unusual in the case of the Embankment is that the line in the middle of a road is a single solid line instead of a double one (or solid + broken), so strictly speaking this situation doesn't appear to be covered by the Reg 26 wording above, which refers to markings where 'a continuous line is on the left of a broken line or of another continuous line'. I'm not sure what to make of that.
If the line is a single solid white line then it would appear to a made up marking, there is nothing in the TSRGD which covers the use of such line as a centre line (unless it is some strange London specific thing). If it is a single solid line then there is no prohibition on crossing it (again unless someone is aware of something London specifc). driver said:
is it illegal to overtake in a 30mph limit anyway?
There's no default prohibition on overtaking in a 30 mph limit.Cat
ruggedscotty said:
In the context of the original question my answer still stands as valid.
double solid line is for all intensive purposes a prohibition of overtaking. it dosent stop you doing as the OP was asking. I was answering his question. All that you quoted is right though so thank you.
To make a U-Turn, you'd need to CROSS the solid white line. double solid line is for all intensive purposes a prohibition of overtaking. it dosent stop you doing as the OP was asking. I was answering his question. All that you quoted is right though so thank you.
In context to the OP, your answer is incorrect.
s.. ruggedscotty said:
In the context of the original question my answer still stands as valid.
double solid line is for all intensive purposes a prohibition of overtaking. it dosent stop you doing as the OP was asking. I was answering his question. All that you quoted is right though so thank you.
What about moderate circumstances?double solid line is for all intensive purposes a prohibition of overtaking. it dosent stop you doing as the OP was asking. I was answering his question. All that you quoted is right though so thank you.
Cat said:
driver said:
is it illegal to overtake in a 30mph limit anyway?
There's no default prohibition on overtaking in a 30 mph limit.Cat
It's basically just one of those silly made up rules that sits neatly in the "my way code" of most drivers.
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