Dodgy trader - V5C in two parts
Discussion
I'll try to keep this short and relevant! Basically I've been to see a car advertised as a private sale. When I went to view I got a BS story explaining that it wasn't actually his own car, but it was his friend's (or more accurately his business partner) who is currently in hospital with cancer(!) and he's selling it on his behalf. Just to paint a picture of the implausibility of this, the car, seller and me are in NW London, the named Registered Keeper on the V5C is in Aberdeen!
OK, moving on, the seller says if I have concerns about this he doesn't mind registering it in his name before sale to keep it legit. But the dodgyness doesn't stop there. I managed to get the V5C off him and take a quick picture. As I recall the two sheets have been separated. ie page 1 and 2 on the first sheet is detached along the perforated line from page 3 and 4. The V5C itself seems genuine on quick assessment, watermark present, chassis number correct, etc, but I was wondering if the fact it's in 2 parts is relevant. How does that help the trader with this scam.
OK, moving on, the seller says if I have concerns about this he doesn't mind registering it in his name before sale to keep it legit. But the dodgyness doesn't stop there. I managed to get the V5C off him and take a quick picture. As I recall the two sheets have been separated. ie page 1 and 2 on the first sheet is detached along the perforated line from page 3 and 4. The V5C itself seems genuine on quick assessment, watermark present, chassis number correct, etc, but I was wondering if the fact it's in 2 parts is relevant. How does that help the trader with this scam.
You're working backwards from the presumption that it's a scam. It may well be utterly legit. Just because you don't have friends in Aberdeen...
Are the Doc Ref Numbers on the two sheets the same?
Does the number check out on https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/ as being the most recently issued?
Are the Doc Ref Numbers on the two sheets the same?
Does the number check out on https://vehicleenquiry.service.gov.uk/ as being the most recently issued?
Thanks for the reply. Definitely a scam. The car is on eBay, but I found serveral other cars and different ebay accounts linked to the same seller, all with previous cars for sale 'privately'. I could tell you more, but for the moment I'm fairly satisfied that it's a car he's picked up in auction or something to sell on.
Unfortunately I din't get as far as cross checking the serial numbers on the differnt sheets. But in theory, the info on page 3 and 4 is fairly generic isn't it? Is there anything to gain from seperating them? Perhaps if the back of the form was already filled in or something, and he wanted a blank one perhaps?
Unfortunately I din't get as far as cross checking the serial numbers on the differnt sheets. But in theory, the info on page 3 and 4 is fairly generic isn't it? Is there anything to gain from seperating them? Perhaps if the back of the form was already filled in or something, and he wanted a blank one perhaps?
K-c8fs1 said:
Unfortunately I din't get as far as cross checking the serial numbers on the differnt sheets. But in theory, the info on page 3 and 4 is fairly generic isn't it? Is there anything to gain from seperating them? Perhaps if the back of the form was already filled in or something, and he wanted a blank one perhaps?
Don't the photos you took show that?Yes, all that's on p3/4 is the three slips - new keeper, into motor trade, export.
TooMany2cvs said:
Don't the photos you took show that?
sadly not, I only snatched a quick picture of page 2 with the VIN and Registered Keeper. I've written to the address to ask about the vehicle history. But the picture doesn't show the document ref number. He didn't like me taking the pic!Forget the sob-storey bulls
t, which is simply an attempt to hide the fact he's a trader in all bar compliance with his obligations from the sounds of it. It doesn't mean the car is 'dodgy' of itself. Depending what kind of value it is and how specialist, if it feels dodgy in any way then walk away. If the car stacks up (you could try speaking to the registered keeper from the v5c detail, who will probably confirm that a 'trader' bought it, or it went in as a part-ex) then the worst case scenario is you won't have any come back unless you can 'prove' he's a trader and are prepared to follow through with court action IF the car is faulty in a way that you'd expect a dealer to put right.
t, which is simply an attempt to hide the fact he's a trader in all bar compliance with his obligations from the sounds of it. It doesn't mean the car is 'dodgy' of itself. Depending what kind of value it is and how specialist, if it feels dodgy in any way then walk away. If the car stacks up (you could try speaking to the registered keeper from the v5c detail, who will probably confirm that a 'trader' bought it, or it went in as a part-ex) then the worst case scenario is you won't have any come back unless you can 'prove' he's a trader and are prepared to follow through with court action IF the car is faulty in a way that you'd expect a dealer to put right.K-c8fs1 said:
Thanks for the reply. Definitely a scam. The car is on eBay, but I found serveral other cars and different ebay accounts linked to the same seller, all with previous cars for sale 'privately'. I could tell you more, but for the moment I'm fairly satisfied that it's a car he's picked up in auction or something to sell on.
Unfortunately I din't get as far as cross checking the serial numbers on the differnt sheets. But in theory, the info on page 3 and 4 is fairly generic isn't it? Is there anything to gain from seperating them? Perhaps if the back of the form was already filled in or something, and he wanted a blank one perhaps?
Is this your thread?Unfortunately I din't get as far as cross checking the serial numbers on the differnt sheets. But in theory, the info on page 3 and 4 is fairly generic isn't it? Is there anything to gain from seperating them? Perhaps if the back of the form was already filled in or something, and he wanted a blank one perhaps?
http://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/showthread.php...
If so, why are you persisting with attempting to deal with this seriously dodgy individual
Adrian E said:
Forget the sob-storey bullst, which is simply an attempt to hide the fact he's a trader in all bar compliance with his obligations from the sounds of it. It doesn't mean the car is 'dodgy' of itself. Depending what kind of value it is and how specialist, if it feels dodgy in any way then walk away. If the car stacks up (you could try speaking to the registered keeper from the v5c detail, who will probably confirm that a 'trader' bought it, or it went in as a part-ex) then the worst case scenario is you won't have any come back unless you can 'prove' he's a trader and are prepared to follow through with court action IF the car is faulty in a way that you'd expect a dealer to put right.
Audi TTS if its the same bloke with the same current car and the same sob story.t, which is simply an attempt to hide the fact he's a trader in all bar compliance with his obligations from the sounds of it. It doesn't mean the car is 'dodgy' of itself. Depending what kind of value it is and how specialist, if it feels dodgy in any way then walk away. If the car stacks up (you could try speaking to the registered keeper from the v5c detail, who will probably confirm that a 'trader' bought it, or it went in as a part-ex) then the worst case scenario is you won't have any come back unless you can 'prove' he's a trader and are prepared to follow through with court action IF the car is faulty in a way that you'd expect a dealer to put right.Adrian E said:
Forget the sob-storey bullst, which is simply an attempt to hide the fact he's a trader in all bar compliance with his obligations from the sounds of it. It doesn't mean the car is 'dodgy' of itself. Depending what kind of value it is and how specialist, if it feels dodgy in any way then walk away. If the car stacks up (you could try speaking to the registered keeper from the v5c detail, who will probably confirm that a 'trader' bought it, or it went in as a part-ex) then the worst case scenario is you won't have any come back unless you can 'prove' he's a trader and are prepared to follow through with court action IF the car is faulty in a way that you'd expect a dealer to put right.
Exactly that. The seller is dodgy, the car is pretty mint as far as I can tell so far. I've spoken to Audi and all the history checks out, I've spoken to the Audi specialist who serviced it for 5 years and they were more than helpful, plus I've driven it and run VCDS on it and pulled off all the uncleared logs. So far no real issues I can't put right myself. Just need to talk to the owner now and find out exactly what he knows. Could still be a lemon, but at the same time I'll have this seller over a barrel.t, which is simply an attempt to hide the fact he's a trader in all bar compliance with his obligations from the sounds of it. It doesn't mean the car is 'dodgy' of itself. Depending what kind of value it is and how specialist, if it feels dodgy in any way then walk away. If the car stacks up (you could try speaking to the registered keeper from the v5c detail, who will probably confirm that a 'trader' bought it, or it went in as a part-ex) then the worst case scenario is you won't have any come back unless you can 'prove' he's a trader and are prepared to follow through with court action IF the car is faulty in a way that you'd expect a dealer to put right.K-c8fs1 said:
Exactly that. The seller is dodgy, the car is pretty mint as far as I can tell so far. I've spoken to Audi and all the history checks out, I've spoken to the Audi specialist who serviced it for 5 years and they were more than helpful, plus I've driven it and run VCDS on it and pulled off all the uncleared logs. So far no real issues I can't put right myself. Just need to talk to the owner now and find out exactly what he knows. Could still be a lemon, but at the same time I'll have this seller over a barrel.
Why have you got the seller over a barrel? He could just tell you to jog on, he doesn’t have to sell the car to you. Gavia said:
K-c8fs1 said:
Exactly that. The seller is dodgy, the car is pretty mint as far as I can tell so far. I've spoken to Audi and all the history checks out, I've spoken to the Audi specialist who serviced it for 5 years and they were more than helpful, plus I've driven it and run VCDS on it and pulled off all the uncleared logs. So far no real issues I can't put right myself. Just need to talk to the owner now and find out exactly what he knows. Could still be a lemon, but at the same time I'll have this seller over a barrel.
Why have you got the seller over a barrel? He could just tell you to jog on, he doesn’t have to sell the car to you. If he knows the O/P knows hes a trader he'll likely not sell it to him as then he is "obliged" to stand over it.
He'll simply get a victim elsewhere.
K-c8fs1 said:
Niether am I obliged to buy! There are other TTS out there. But it's interesting to see him squirm. And evidently I know more about the actual car than the chancer trying to sell it.
He wont squirm - these people have no morals and no scruples. He'll shrug it off and deny everything.Not one f
k will he give.I dont know why you're persisting - hes seriously dodgy, has a dodgy history, has bare faced lied to you, has forged documentation and hes (according to your other thread) selling the car to you for considerably below market value - which suggests (given his record) he knows something about the car you dont.
I'd be running a mile.....
Edited by daemon on Tuesday 10th April 14:55
K-c8fs1 said:
Niether am I obliged to buy! There are other TTS out there. But it's interesting to see him squirm. And evidently I know more about the actual car than the chancer trying to sell it.
Here’s an idea, instead of starting multiple threads across forums, why not buy one of the other TTS out there? You seem determined to buy this car and seem to think that posting stuff like this somehow places you in a better position. I can’t see how it does. daemon said:
has bare faced lied to you, has forged documentation and
Has he forged documentation? That was one of the things I was trying to establish. So I've cross-checked the service book (which was the first thing I thought might be a knock off) against all known records and it thoroughly checks out. That leaves the V5C, and this thread might suggest something about that: https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?...If section 9 had the original trade-in details it might explain why/if it was removed and replaced with a completely blank 2nd page. I don't know that yet and haven't yet spoken to the original keeper or looked closer at the document numbers. It doesn't explain why the Registered keeper passed on the log book to the trader though instead of destroying it. Knowing this sort of information is key to making informed decisions though, and fortunately there are some out there happy to help pick through the different processes and pass on actual knowledge.
K-c8fs1 said:
daemon said:
has bare faced lied to you, has forged documentation and
Has he forged documentation? That was one of the things I was trying to establish. So I've cross-checked the service book (which was the first thing I thought might be a knock off) against all known records and it thoroughly checks out. That leaves the V5C, and this thread might suggest something about that: https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?...If section 9 had the original trade-in details it might explain why/if it was removed and replaced with a completely blank 2nd page. I don't know that yet and haven't yet spoken to the original keeper or looked closer at the document numbers. It doesn't explain why the Registered keeper passed on the log book to the trader though instead of destroying it. Knowing this sort of information is key to making informed decisions though, and fortunately there are some out there happy to help pick through the different processes and pass on actual knowledge.
He would have the main V5C part if he was the trader. I suspect he has a complete sheet that he can waft about if asked for.
On the day of handover i suspect he would actually give you the (before you arrive) seperated "new owner" slip from the actual V5C thus you'd never know the trade slip was not there.
Hes a dodgy bloke, with a dodgy history, giving you a dodgy story. Do you really trust him to tell you if there are any issues with the car or not to have doctored up some issue so you dont notice?
Do you not find it odd - as i said on the other thread - that hes happy to sell you the car at some £2,000 below retail price? Does that not suggest (a) hes bought it cheap with a fault and (b) hes looking shot of it. It seems odd that a trader wouldnt know the exact value of the car, does it not?
Also, given we uncovered the guys dodgy trading past for you on the other thread that you were previously oblivious to, are you absolutely sure theres nothing else you're not seeing RE: the cars condition, potential faults, history etc?
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