5th Gear -- safety lampposts
Discussion
I've just seen the item on 5th Gear about lampposts. Apparently 500 people a year are KILLED running into street furniture! They tested a Swedish safety lamppost that absorbs impact. Compared to the bog standard British lamppost, the difference is death vs. walking away. These and similar are already in use in other countries in Europe.
I wonder if the Scumera partnerships could be persuaded to forego some of their plush carpets and jollies to fund something that could actually save hundreds of lives a year? No, I guess not. Because cameras are about money rather than lives after all.
How sad that a real lifesaver is ignored while spurious speeding figures are used to justify highway robbery. Worse, those Gatsos are a potential danger at the roadside just like lampposts.
I wonder if the Scumera partnerships could be persuaded to forego some of their plush carpets and jollies to fund something that could actually save hundreds of lives a year? No, I guess not. Because cameras are about money rather than lives after all.
How sad that a real lifesaver is ignored while spurious speeding figures are used to justify highway robbery. Worse, those Gatsos are a potential danger at the roadside just like lampposts.
puggit said:
Frankly these lampposts scare me - fine if you're in the car. The way the post slammed in to the ground would fill me with dread for any nearby pedestrians
..... or in a softtop
The whole article was rather worrying though, maybe some of the 'profits' of the Scamera partnerships could be put into replacement of this damgerous street furiture ????
Peter,
You beat me to it. My sentiments exactly. And I'm sure this is just one of many aspects of road design that could be improved, resulting in saved lives, but alas.....no revenue.
The real stats on this would be very interesting. I wonder how many of the 500 deaths were the result of Lamppost impacts - lets presume it was 200. How many lives have actually been saved by speed cameras; the figure will be open to interpretation but I'd be suprised if it were that many. Obviously lamp posts could only be replaced with safer ones as part of a long term program. How many could have replaced over the last 10 years for the same cost as installing all the cameras - obviously any income from the camera has to ignored, as these measures are being taken in the name of road safety.
Lets hope momentum on this continues.
>> Edited by tuscanboy on Monday 25th April 21:17
>> Edited by tuscanboy on Monday 25th April 21:17
You beat me to it. My sentiments exactly. And I'm sure this is just one of many aspects of road design that could be improved, resulting in saved lives, but alas.....no revenue.
The real stats on this would be very interesting. I wonder how many of the 500 deaths were the result of Lamppost impacts - lets presume it was 200. How many lives have actually been saved by speed cameras; the figure will be open to interpretation but I'd be suprised if it were that many. Obviously lamp posts could only be replaced with safer ones as part of a long term program. How many could have replaced over the last 10 years for the same cost as installing all the cameras - obviously any income from the camera has to ignored, as these measures are being taken in the name of road safety.
Lets hope momentum on this continues.
>> Edited by tuscanboy on Monday 25th April 21:17
>> Edited by tuscanboy on Monday 25th April 21:17
puggit said:
Obviously those 500 deaths are due to speed - if you weren't speeding you wouldn't die on impact 
Rubbish - if you loose control of a car at 50mph on a 60mph road and hit a lampost, chances are you're gone.
Loosing control at 39mph in a 40mph and you're going to do some serious damge.
Its not to do with whether you're speeding or not, its due to how you are driving, your awareness and the people around you
>> Edited by mindgam3 on Monday 25th April 21:20
puggit said:
Frankly these lampposts scare me - fine if you're in the car. The way the post slammed in to the ground would fill me with dread for any nearby pedestrians
to be fair the footage seemed to show the lamppost falling over the car and slamming into the grounf just behind it. If that is the case then the last thing the pedestrian has to worry about is falling lampposts.
Does raise the question, at what sort of impact speed does the average car need to be doing to cause one to fall?
gopher said:You obviously missed what happened next - most of the length of the lamppost then slammed in to the ground in front of the car (imagine the car going forward, the lamppost is carried over it by the force of the car, as the car carried on going forward the post then sprung back in front).
Frankly these lampposts scare me - fine if you're in the car. The way the post slammed in to the ground would fill me with dread for any nearby pedestrians
to be fair the footage seemed to show the lamppost falling over the car and slamming into the grounf just behind it. If that is the case then the last thing the pedestrian has to worry about is falling lampposts.
Does raise the question, at what sort of impact speed does the average car need to be doing to cause one to fall?
puggit said:
Frankly these lampposts scare me - fine if you're in the car. The way the post slammed in to the ground would fill me with dread for any nearby pedestrians
I seemed to remember from the footage that the lamppost only collapsed as the car moved forward. With the car travelling 3 or 4 metres further than the current lamppost impact there would be more risk to pedestrians, but I suspect most of these accidents occur on roads with relatively low pedestrian density.
missed the program, but
I thought that all, repeat, all street furniture had to conform to some standard of deformation/collapse when hit (by a moving object ie a car). If this is true then the scammeras on a pole also have to adhere to this. A GATSO/RLC pole would probably not pass this test.
Perhaps one of the resident BiB can help out with the rules.
I thought that all, repeat, all street furniture had to conform to some standard of deformation/collapse when hit (by a moving object ie a car). If this is true then the scammeras on a pole also have to adhere to this. A GATSO/RLC pole would probably not pass this test.
Perhaps one of the resident BiB can help out with the rules.
puggit said:
You obviously missed what happened next - most of the length of the lamppost then slammed in to the ground in front of the car (imagine the car going forward, the lamppost is carried over it by the force of the car, as the car carried on going forward the post then sprung back in front).
You are right, I did not see that but I an;t say I was taking a huge amount of notice.
I still think it would be worth knowing what sort of force is required to bring one of these things down - it seems like not much.
Cheers
Paul
I came across a lampost striking incident once.
It was a lorry that had hit it, so no speed limit broken!!
The lampost was across all four lanes of the A77 but I was able to get under it, waved on by police but it could have been so much worse if the lorry hadn't been propping it up a bit.
It was a lorry that had hit it, so no speed limit broken!!
The lampost was across all four lanes of the A77 but I was able to get under it, waved on by police but it could have been so much worse if the lorry hadn't been propping it up a bit.
puggit said:
You obviously missed what happened next - most of the length of the lamppost then slammed in to the ground in front of the car (imagine the car going forward, the lamppost is carried over it by the force of the car, as the car carried on going forward the post then sprung back in front).
Actually - you are right - this happens right at the beginning - the lamp post is forced forwards by the car which then runs over it - this was highlighted as a safety "feature" of the whole thing.
I wonder how many lamp posts would have room to fall in this manner? Can't deny it did a lot less damage to the car and driver tho'
Cheers
Paul
Peter Ward said:...High Skid surfacing banned or gritted in other countries still used here...... much larger provision of high quality trunk roads/motorways abroad....... UK motorways designed and constructed with inadequate drainage making them unsafe at 50 when it rains.... unlit motorways....... congestion engineering forcing pedestrians closer to traffic/ traffic closer to pedestrians/ cyclists/ other traffic..... most dangerous pedestrians/ children in the EU.....
......500 people a year are KILLED running into street furniture! They tested a Swedish safety lamppost that absorbs impact. Compared to the bog standard British lamppost, the difference is death vs. walking away. These and similar are already in use in other countries in Europe.........
And we still (for the moment) have the safest roads in the world.
IE, despite having the most dangerous roads, our drivers make them the safest!
viggen114 said:
I thought that all, repeat, all street furniture had to conform to some standard of deformation/collapse when hit (by a moving object ie a car). If this is true then the scammeras on a pole also have to adhere to this. A GATSO/RLC pole would probably not pass this test.
There was a car vs Gatso collision last year. IIRC it was a kid who stole his dad's BMW whilst drunk and slammed into the camera and died. Gatso tipped by about 20 degrees but otherwise unharmed.
Gareth
gopher said:
Does raise the question, at what sort of impact speed does the average car need to be doing to cause one to fall?
Saw this happen about 10 years ago, Gopher. A Christmas eve it was and I was on my way home from work.
A Volvo 340 turned in front of me from the opposite direction into the same road. As I followed him it was obvious he was drunk. Suddenly he veered off left and hit a tall steel lamp-post, it just dropped to the ground in the same direction of travel as the car.
Luckily, the houses there are "set back" from the main road with their own road in front, so it hit nothing.
His speed?............30 mph!
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