One million bus lane fines handed out each year
Discussion
Not happy reading but reality...
Rank City Bus lane fines issued 2015-17
1 London (all councils) 994,473
2 Manchester City Council 352,688
3 Glasgow City Council 339,402
4 City of Cardiff Council 267,713
5 Bradford Metropolitan Council 208,790
6 Nottingham City Council 194,993
7 Newcastle City Council 191,858
8 Coventry City Council 161,824
9 Leeds City Council 145,394
10 Bristol City Council 126,749
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/103137/one-m...
Rank City Bus lane fines issued 2015-17
1 London (all councils) 994,473
2 Manchester City Council 352,688
3 Glasgow City Council 339,402
4 City of Cardiff Council 267,713
5 Bradford Metropolitan Council 208,790
6 Nottingham City Council 194,993
7 Newcastle City Council 191,858
8 Coventry City Council 161,824
9 Leeds City Council 145,394
10 Bristol City Council 126,749
http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/103137/one-m...
There are two separate issues here.
One is the need or appropriateness of bus lanes. My view is that, along with parking charges, congestion, and a myriad of other things, they make driving into cities so frustrating that people take the bus as the lesser of two evils.
The second aspect is bus lane fines. Regardless of whether or not the bus lane is appropriate, if you drive into one you must know that you're taking a risk of being fined. So if you end up getting fined it's not really anybody's fault but your own.
One is the need or appropriateness of bus lanes. My view is that, along with parking charges, congestion, and a myriad of other things, they make driving into cities so frustrating that people take the bus as the lesser of two evils.
The second aspect is bus lane fines. Regardless of whether or not the bus lane is appropriate, if you drive into one you must know that you're taking a risk of being fined. So if you end up getting fined it's not really anybody's fault but your own.
Glasgowrob said:
Utter cash cow for the council's
Al it does is encourage them to create bottle necks by adding more bus lanes thus creating more revenue under the guise of pushing a public transport agenda
But if we didn't have them, those passengerless minicabs wouldn't be able to get to the local takeaway as quickly. Could you live with yourself knowing that?Al it does is encourage them to create bottle necks by adding more bus lanes thus creating more revenue under the guise of pushing a public transport agenda
I was just thinking, reading the comments: I always read the bus lane timings and use them if legal. Many times I'm the the only one (with everyone else pootling along in the middle of the road). How about the camera operators issueing fines for those (tehnically in lane 2 outside operational hours) getting a NIP in the post 
Not the same subject as posted but why not?
Not the same subject as posted but why not?
Let's be honest here.
What do you really expect when councils have the budgets cut immensely.
They start buying land to sell on and look for easy ways to make money, meaning staggering amounts of camera's and things like this.
They are easy to avoid, people are just either too dumb or impatient to suss that out.
Councils have been turned, like everything else into profit making businesses, run by businessmen, not councillors and run to make money as they now get far less than they used to.
So blame the government if anyone
What do you really expect when councils have the budgets cut immensely.
They start buying land to sell on and look for easy ways to make money, meaning staggering amounts of camera's and things like this.
They are easy to avoid, people are just either too dumb or impatient to suss that out.
Councils have been turned, like everything else into profit making businesses, run by businessmen, not councillors and run to make money as they now get far less than they used to.
So blame the government if anyone
AMG Merc said:
I was just thinking, reading the comments: I always read the bus lane timings and use them if legal. Many times I'm the the only one (with everyone else pootling along in the middle of the road). How about the camera operators issueing fines for those (tehnically in lane 2 outside operational hours) getting a NIP in the post
Not the same subject as posted but why not?
Because there's no law against driving in lane 2?Not the same subject as posted but why not?
MitchT said:
Perfectly sums up local government mentality that some bright spark thought "I know, let's force two lanes of cars into one lane at the busiest time of day" and they went for it!
But there is a logic. Each bus takes what, 40 to 65 seats? Given cars in commute traffic are typically 1 driver and no passengers... each bus can take the volume of 40-65 cars off the road. To incentivise usage, you give them priority so that users have more confidence in using them vs a car, as they get there quicker (or at worst, no slower)Vaud said:
MitchT said:
Perfectly sums up local government mentality that some bright spark thought "I know, let's force two lanes of cars into one lane at the busiest time of day" and they went for it!
But there is a logic. Each bus takes what, 40 to 65 seats? Given cars in commute traffic are typically 1 driver and no passengers... each bus can take the volume of 40-65 cars off the road. To incentivise usage, you give them priority so that users have more confidence in using them vs a car, as they get there quicker (or at worst, no slower)mac96 said:
You are assuming that buses are usually full, and that all those bus passengers would have otherwise driven a car. It will depend where you are and what alternatives are available but if the bus wasn't there, some of those journeys would not be made at all, some would be on foot, some by bike and (especially in London) some by train or tube.
I said there was a logic, and that is what it is. Cars are extremely inefficient methods of transport.Countdown said:
There are two separate issues here.
One is the need or appropriateness of bus lanes. My view is that, along with parking charges, congestion, and a myriad of other things, they make driving into cities so frustrating that people take the bus as the lesser of two evils.
The second aspect is bus lane fines. Regardless of whether or not the bus lane is appropriate, if you drive into one you must know that you're taking a risk of being fined. So if you end up getting fined it's not really anybody's fault but your own.
The problem is there is no discretion shown. Mrs Truffles was done by an automatic camera for clipping the entrance to a bus lane by, oh, I should say 1 inch into the white line. The £30 or whatever it was is a pure cash cow. There was no intent to use the bus lane, nor any danger to others.One is the need or appropriateness of bus lanes. My view is that, along with parking charges, congestion, and a myriad of other things, they make driving into cities so frustrating that people take the bus as the lesser of two evils.
The second aspect is bus lane fines. Regardless of whether or not the bus lane is appropriate, if you drive into one you must know that you're taking a risk of being fined. So if you end up getting fined it's not really anybody's fault but your own.
AMG Merc said:
I was just thinking, reading the comments: I always read the bus lane timings and use them if legal. Many times I'm the the only one (with everyone else pootling along in the middle of the road). How about the camera operators issueing fines for those (tehnically in lane 2 outside operational hours) getting a NIP in the post
Not the same subject as posted but why not?
Daughters ex failed his first driving test for not using an out of hours bus lane. Not the same subject as posted but why not?
Countdown said:
The second aspect is bus lane fines. Regardless of whether or not the bus lane is appropriate, if you drive into one you must know that you're taking a risk of being fined. So if you end up getting fined it's not really anybody's fault but your own.
The big issue, in Glasgow at least is that the council seems to deliberately utilise deliberately obtuse signage meaning a large amount of fines issued aren't those who have deliberately jumped a bus lane as a quick shortcut, but those who have inadvertently turned into a lane without realising it. Testament to this is that the fines issued by Glasgow City Council disproportionately hit those who have traveled from outwith the city, and are potentially unaware of the lanes.
I got caught in one for this very reason only a couple of weeks after moving to Glasgow. Lots of pedestrians about, vehicle parked over road signage, £30 fine from, what was at the time the 2nd most profitable camera in the city (now 1st).
Vaud said:
mac96 said:
You are assuming that buses are usually full, and that all those bus passengers would have otherwise driven a car. It will depend where you are and what alternatives are available but if the bus wasn't there, some of those journeys would not be made at all, some would be on foot, some by bike and (especially in London) some by train or tube.
I said there was a logic, and that is what it is. Cars are extremely inefficient methods of transport.Similar doubtful logic is churned out by the bike lobby ' a bike takes up less room than a car'- true, but only relevant if the cyclist would otherwise have been driving a car, when he might have used public transport, or if the ride was for fun, stayed at home.
mac96 said:
OK it's logic,but it's an exaggeration- a bus on average does not remove 40- 65 cars from the road. I don't know how many it does remove, but it will on average be a much smaller number for the reasons I suggested.
Similar doubtful logic is churned out by the bike lobby ' a bike takes up less room than a car'- true, but only relevant if the cyclist would otherwise have been driving a car, when he might have used public transport, or if the ride was for fun, stayed at home.
Reread my post. I said "can" not "does".Similar doubtful logic is churned out by the bike lobby ' a bike takes up less room than a car'- true, but only relevant if the cyclist would otherwise have been driving a car, when he might have used public transport, or if the ride was for fun, stayed at home.
Either way a bus is more efficient in rush hour for capacity than cars. The key to more free flowing cities is more mass transit, ride sharing (with automation/AI), bikes and walking - and fewer cars.
Vaud said:
mac96 said:
OK it's logic,but it's an exaggeration- a bus on average does not remove 40- 65 cars from the road. I don't know how many it does remove, but it will on average be a much smaller number for the reasons I suggested.
Similar doubtful logic is churned out by the bike lobby ' a bike takes up less room than a car'- true, but only relevant if the cyclist would otherwise have been driving a car, when he might have used public transport, or if the ride was for fun, stayed at home.
Reread my post. I said "can" not "does".Similar doubtful logic is churned out by the bike lobby ' a bike takes up less room than a car'- true, but only relevant if the cyclist would otherwise have been driving a car, when he might have used public transport, or if the ride was for fun, stayed at home.
Either way a bus is more efficient in rush hour for capacity than cars. The key to more free flowing cities is more mass transit, ride sharing (with automation/AI), bikes and walking - and fewer cars.
I am not disputing that cities cannot work with ever increasing car numbers, but I think in the UK at least that argument is surely won? A blend of alternatives, as you say, has to be the way forward. I am not some die hard 'car is the only way'.I wouldn't dream of driving into central London.
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