Using MoneyClaim - I've made a blunder
Discussion
Hi All,
I bought a "graded - as new" cooker early in 2016 for just over £1,000; we weren’t at home when the cooker arrived – we arranged for an electrician to be there to connect the cooker to the electrical supply. From the very first day, we found that the hobs would randomly switch ‘On’ and ‘Off’ or change the selected setting and we found that using the oven would exacerbate the problems with the hob. We were not supplied with instructions and assumed that we were doing something wrong, as we'd never had an induction cooker before. After 6 months (the 'warranty' period), we assumed that we had no rights of complaint.
Last month, we asked an electrician to check the wiring to the mains - the cooker was taken out to check this; we found a sticker saying 'Salvage' on the back.
My blunders :-
1.
I sent a letter to the retailer asking for a refund on the cooker - although I enclosed a copy of the original receipt {showing the correct date of purchase}, in the text of my letter, I've misquoted that date. Ive mistakenly put '10' (October) for the month, instead of '01' (January).
(In his response, the retailer made reference to the 'correct' date given in the receipt).
2.
Even worse, on my MoneyClaim Claim form, I've made the same mistake re. the date.
Yes, I know, I'm a dopey b@st@rd !
I feel very low, at having made such a blunder and then repeated it !
I went on to MoneyClaim yesterday and I see that the defendant has just filed a 'filed an acknowledgment of service'. It was then, that I realised that I'd cited the wrong date in my text.
Question is, what do I do now - will I have to cancel the claim and then re-submit it ? Or can I get the date altered on the claim form ? Or can I agree with the defendant, to use the correct date ?
I've found using MoneyClaim to be far from straightforward - for anyone who might consider using it, take note that you will not be able to log in to the system if your browser is Google Chrome or Opera - you HAVE to use Internet Explorer.
Annoyingly, I'm sure that I have a very strong claim - after I started the MoneyClaim action, I contacted the manfacturer and they told me that they fitted the 'Salvage' sticker - they do this to goods deemed to be faulty and such items should only be sold on the premise that they are 'faulty'.
AArgh - I feel majorly stressed, at having made a mistake with the date.
Any advice, guidance or help would be gratefully and humbly received. (I presume that getting legal help isn't cost effective)
I bought a "graded - as new" cooker early in 2016 for just over £1,000; we weren’t at home when the cooker arrived – we arranged for an electrician to be there to connect the cooker to the electrical supply. From the very first day, we found that the hobs would randomly switch ‘On’ and ‘Off’ or change the selected setting and we found that using the oven would exacerbate the problems with the hob. We were not supplied with instructions and assumed that we were doing something wrong, as we'd never had an induction cooker before. After 6 months (the 'warranty' period), we assumed that we had no rights of complaint.
Last month, we asked an electrician to check the wiring to the mains - the cooker was taken out to check this; we found a sticker saying 'Salvage' on the back.
My blunders :-
1.
I sent a letter to the retailer asking for a refund on the cooker - although I enclosed a copy of the original receipt {showing the correct date of purchase}, in the text of my letter, I've misquoted that date. Ive mistakenly put '10' (October) for the month, instead of '01' (January).
(In his response, the retailer made reference to the 'correct' date given in the receipt).
2.
Even worse, on my MoneyClaim Claim form, I've made the same mistake re. the date.
Yes, I know, I'm a dopey b@st@rd !
I feel very low, at having made such a blunder and then repeated it !
I went on to MoneyClaim yesterday and I see that the defendant has just filed a 'filed an acknowledgment of service'. It was then, that I realised that I'd cited the wrong date in my text.
Question is, what do I do now - will I have to cancel the claim and then re-submit it ? Or can I get the date altered on the claim form ? Or can I agree with the defendant, to use the correct date ?
I've found using MoneyClaim to be far from straightforward - for anyone who might consider using it, take note that you will not be able to log in to the system if your browser is Google Chrome or Opera - you HAVE to use Internet Explorer.
Annoyingly, I'm sure that I have a very strong claim - after I started the MoneyClaim action, I contacted the manfacturer and they told me that they fitted the 'Salvage' sticker - they do this to goods deemed to be faulty and such items should only be sold on the premise that they are 'faulty'.
AArgh - I feel majorly stressed, at having made a mistake with the date.
Any advice, guidance or help would be gratefully and humbly received. (I presume that getting legal help isn't cost effective)
Edited by pubrunner on Saturday 21st April 23:13
Don’t stress it. Small claims and claims issued by an individual are dealt with in a slightly more relaxed manner by the courts and mort judges. They give allowances for the fact that you aren’t a trained lawyer.
If it were me, I’d wait for the Defendant to file his Defence at which stage he might highlight your error.
If not, at the stage of exchange of witness statements, address it in your witness statement.
If it were me, I’d wait for the Defendant to file his Defence at which stage he might highlight your error.
If not, at the stage of exchange of witness statements, address it in your witness statement.
Willhire89 said:
It will be fine - I managed to spell the name of the company I was pursuing wrong 
and it made no difference
and it made no differenceKungFuPanda said:
Don’t stress it. Small claims and claims issued by an individual are dealt with in a slightly more relaxed manner by the courts and mort judges. They give allowances for the fact that you aren’t a trained lawyer.
If it were me, I’d wait for the Defendant to file his Defence at which stage he might highlight your error.
If not, at the stage of exchange of witness statements, address it in your witness statement.
If it were me, I’d wait for the Defendant to file his Defence at which stage he might highlight your error.
If not, at the stage of exchange of witness statements, address it in your witness statement.
Jasandjules said:
Don't worry, once the defence has been filed (though do keep an eye on the date just in case he fails to do so) you can make an application to amend if you wish. But chances are the Defence will note the error and that will be that.......
Hi All,Many thanks indeed, for taking the trouble to make such helpful (& reassuring) replies - your kindness is much appreciated !
We purchased our cooker in January 2016 - it was advertised as 'new - "graded"' - 'graded' being defined as new and unused items that have been returned by customers.
WE weren't home when the cooker arrived and we arranged for it to be professionally wired in so that we could use it when we returned. Whilst it looks fine cosmetically, we've had problems with it since day 1. It was pulled out last month so that the wiring could be checked; on the back was a large sticker saying 'salvage'. We also found, that all the unique identifiers for the cooker had been removed - these being the serial & pin numbers.
Like many (most ?) people I don't like complaining - to do so, requires a degree of assertiveness and confidence that is largely absent in my personality. However, given the amount we paid for the cooker (over £1,000). I decided to 'bite the bullet' and put in a complaint. Following advice, I sent two letters to the retailer - I included a photo of the 'Salvage' sticker.
They told me that the cooker was sold with a 6 month warranty and that it wasn't sold with the 'salvage' sticker on it. Following this, I went to MoneyClaim. I recently received a letter saying that an 'Acknowledgement of Service' has been filed and that the defendent has 28 days to file a response - they have indicated that they intend to defend all of the claim.
A couple of points :
I'm uncertain of the next steps in the process - do I now wait to see what their defence is ? And after that, what ?
I recently contacted the manufacturer of the cooker and they told me, that they put 'tamper-proof' 'salvage' stickers on 'faulty' and 'damaged' cookers and remove all the serial numbers - they mentioned that they do this by agreement with trading standards, so that the cooker isn't sold as a new and working item.
By removing the labels in this way and by fitting the salvage sticker, they are absolving themselves of any responsibility for the cooker - a cooker which I purchased as being 'new' and in 'full working order'. The manufacturer also told me that I can use the email that they sent me, to 'substantiate' my case.
How and when can I use this new evidence - I believe that I'm not allowed to 'spring' new info. on the defendent ?
Thank you so much, for all your help . . . . . . . if you are ever in North Shropshire, call in and I'll take you to the local pub - all on me !
Jasandjules said:
Once they file a defence (or fail to do so at which point use form N225 IIRC)... The court will then send you a letter which more likely than not sets out dates for certain things such as lodging all evidence etc and a hearing date....
"Thank you" once again, for clarifying matters - I'm currently on a very step learning curve. Things might have changed slightly since I was in practice as a civil solicitor but the process should hopefully be the same.
Defendant will file a Defence. Most probably up to 28 days after your claim was served. This will give you a clue as to what they dispute.
After that, you will have to complete what was formerly known as an Allocation Questionnaire (not sure what they're called now). They'll ask you what Court you want your hearing listed at, dates of availability for trial, any evidence you wish to rely on (your email, correspondence etc etc). Usually, with small claims matters, exchange of all evidence occurs 14 days prior to the hearing. Having said that, it's best to disclose all your evidence early. The key thing would be your witness statement. Number your paragraphs so the judge can referred to them, include numbered attachments if needed. Try to keep emotions out of it and keep it succinct.
As I said previously, if it proceeds to a final hearing, it will be very informal and will probably be the parties sat around a desk in the Judge's chambers.
Any more advice required, post it on here or Pm me.
Defendant will file a Defence. Most probably up to 28 days after your claim was served. This will give you a clue as to what they dispute.
After that, you will have to complete what was formerly known as an Allocation Questionnaire (not sure what they're called now). They'll ask you what Court you want your hearing listed at, dates of availability for trial, any evidence you wish to rely on (your email, correspondence etc etc). Usually, with small claims matters, exchange of all evidence occurs 14 days prior to the hearing. Having said that, it's best to disclose all your evidence early. The key thing would be your witness statement. Number your paragraphs so the judge can referred to them, include numbered attachments if needed. Try to keep emotions out of it and keep it succinct.
As I said previously, if it proceeds to a final hearing, it will be very informal and will probably be the parties sat around a desk in the Judge's chambers.
Any more advice required, post it on here or Pm me.
Jasandjules said:
Once they file a defence (or fail to do so at which point use form N225 IIRC)... The court will then send you a letter which more likely than not sets out dates for certain things such as lodging all evidence etc and a hearing date....
Just seen this. Wasn't intending on stepping on your toes there!Tim2k9 said:
Firstly which electrician would fit a cooker marked as salvage, especially then fail to mention it as well.
That thought occurred to me too.To be fair to the electrician, someone has attempted to take the sticker off the cooker - it has been partially removed. I can only presume, that as he saw that the sticker was partially removed, that it was 'fixed' and okay to use. We only got him in to install the cooker, we didn't tell him it was 'new' - it could easily have been something that had been used, that we'd bought (cheaply) off Ebay, Preloved or similar.
The manufacturer told me, that for their products that are deemed to be 'faulty' or 'damaged', they put on ('tamper proof') salvage stickers in a specific position - which is the case with our cooker.
Between myself and the retailer, there is agreement that the cooker was sold to us described as 'graded - as new'; my contention is that a salvage cooker has been sold on that premise, whereas the retailer alleges that the sticker was put on after it left them and that the cooker was in full working order.
The salvage sticker is an important consideration; what concerns me, is that as I've mentioned previously, this means that in the event of any damage or injury caused by the cooker, we would have had no rights against the manufacturer (under the 1987 Consumer Protection Act) - in any circumstances.
By the way, I'd like to take this opportunity to thank all those who have taken the trouble to give replies to my initial posting - it has made me feel rather more positive about this issue. I could easily have just not bothered, taken the hit and gone out to buy another cooker. For all of you, I hope that good karma is heading your way.
Tim2k9 said:
However would this electrician be willing to write a statement to say that sticker was there at time of fitting, might add to your case.
I'm not sure that he genuinely would remember the sticker; I'm not sure it would be wise to use him, as it might appear to be too contrived. The sticker looks rather 'grimy' and is clearly something that has not been placed on recently. I sent an image of the sticker to the manufacturer and they confirmed that they had put it on - hopefully, that'll be enough.I wasn't going to comment on the salvage sticker as it's a bit off topic, but now it's been mentioned it strikes me as somewhat alarming that a manufacturer would allow product to leave the factory in this state - you'd think if they couldn't repair it then they'd crush it due to the potential damage to their reputation.
pubrunner said:
Hi All,
I've found using MoneyClaim to be far from straightforward - for anyone who might consider using it, take note that you will not be able to log in to the system if your browser is Google Chrome or Opera - you HAVE to use Internet Explorer.
Not my experience, I use Chrome and found MCOL to be exceedingly simple to use.I've found using MoneyClaim to be far from straightforward - for anyone who might consider using it, take note that you will not be able to log in to the system if your browser is Google Chrome or Opera - you HAVE to use Internet Explorer.
Sheepshanks said:
I wasn't going to comment on the salvage sticker as it's a bit off topic, but now it's been mentioned it strikes me as somewhat alarming that a manufacturer would allow product to leave the factory in this state - you'd think if they couldn't repair it then they'd crush it due to the potential damage to their reputation.
That's pretty much what I thought and was why I contacted them.The onus is on the retailer/point of sale to confirm with the customer, the premise and conditions on which the appliance is being sold. By putting on the stickers, removing all unique identifiers and selling the cookers on the basis that they are 'salvage', the manufacturer is disposing of them in a responsible way, by clearly letting any potential purchasers know what they are purchasing and that they are damaged goods.
However, I'm sure that with enough effort and the aid of chemicals to help the process, the stickers could be fully and cleanly removed.
Hi All,
I'm in a very tricky (& unusual situation) and I've no idea how to resolve it.
I instigated a claim earlier this year via MoneyClaim and after a lot of delays, I was told in August by MoneyClaim that the case had been transferred to my local court. At the same time, I also received a letter from the court, telling me to 'do nothing' until I received directions from them.
Having heard nothing for two months, I contacted the court today, to be told that although the case had been transferred to them, they've been given no info. from MoneyClaim relating to the case and that they 'couldn't help me'.
I contacted MoneyClaim - they also, have said that they can't help me; they say that the case has been transferred and it is out of their hands.
In a nutshell, both the court and MoneyClaim are saying that they haven't got any of the documentation and that they 'can't help me'. It appears, that no-one is prepared to take responsibility for the missing documentation.
What should I do now ? Am I expected to shell out money again to MoneyClaim and start the case again ?
I'm in a very tricky (& unusual situation) and I've no idea how to resolve it.
I instigated a claim earlier this year via MoneyClaim and after a lot of delays, I was told in August by MoneyClaim that the case had been transferred to my local court. At the same time, I also received a letter from the court, telling me to 'do nothing' until I received directions from them.
Having heard nothing for two months, I contacted the court today, to be told that although the case had been transferred to them, they've been given no info. from MoneyClaim relating to the case and that they 'couldn't help me'.
I contacted MoneyClaim - they also, have said that they can't help me; they say that the case has been transferred and it is out of their hands.
In a nutshell, both the court and MoneyClaim are saying that they haven't got any of the documentation and that they 'can't help me'. It appears, that no-one is prepared to take responsibility for the missing documentation.
What should I do now ? Am I expected to shell out money again to MoneyClaim and start the case again ?
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff