Why is UK car insurance such a ****ing scam !
Discussion
Ok it’s been a while since my last rant, but wtf here’s another, change the channel if you wish.
Today I walked into Avis midtown NYC and hired a car in minutes, with just my UK photo card driving licence (no fecking paper counterpart) and Amex card, seemless. Why, if I try to hire in the UK do I constantly get the third degree, requests for nonsense printouts of stupid endorsements because the ridiculously insane photo card license has to have a paper counterpart record of uk “speeding” fines that can’t be kept on a chip, and so it got me thinking... which other country has a counterpart driving license ..
UK car insurance is one big mother f
king scam. Everywhere else in the world insures the car and anyone can drive it, as it is a standard household policy. If I see family in the US I can drive any of their cars under their insurance, no problem. However back in UK it works a little differently, we insure the driver and not the car. What the actual fk. I’m no American but what backwards profiteering scamming insurance nonsense is this ? If I have family visiting over here, can they drive my cars ? No, not under my insurance unless I add a fking “named” driver to the policy, who incidently also has to be a UK resident. What an absolute fking paperwork nightmare.
2/10 for the rant I know, but it really is utterly fking ridiculous. I hate uk car insurance. /rant over. Any workarounds/ suggestions welcome... sorry if wrong section.
Today I walked into Avis midtown NYC and hired a car in minutes, with just my UK photo card driving licence (no fecking paper counterpart) and Amex card, seemless. Why, if I try to hire in the UK do I constantly get the third degree, requests for nonsense printouts of stupid endorsements because the ridiculously insane photo card license has to have a paper counterpart record of uk “speeding” fines that can’t be kept on a chip, and so it got me thinking... which other country has a counterpart driving license ..
UK car insurance is one big mother f
king scam. Everywhere else in the world insures the car and anyone can drive it, as it is a standard household policy. If I see family in the US I can drive any of their cars under their insurance, no problem. However back in UK it works a little differently, we insure the driver and not the car. What the actual fk. I’m no American but what backwards profiteering scamming insurance nonsense is this ? If I have family visiting over here, can they drive my cars ? No, not under my insurance unless I add a fking “named” driver to the policy, who incidently also has to be a UK resident. What an absolute fking paperwork nightmare. 2/10 for the rant I know, but it really is utterly f
king ridiculous. I hate uk car insurance. /rant over. Any workarounds/ suggestions welcome... sorry if wrong section.Cold said:
The paper counterpart of the licence was deleted some years ago.
Yep, 3 years ago. Replaced with an online system instead - https://www.gov.uk/government/news/driving-licence... .rscott said:
Cold said:
The paper counterpart of the licence was deleted some years ago.
Yep, 3 years ago. Replaced with an online system instead - https://www.gov.uk/government/news/driving-licence... .Have a rant by all means but get the facts straight.
Light17 said:
Yeah, it's a complete joke. As you've already mentioned, getting insurance for non-UK residents on your cars is a nightmare. Things like no claims bonus only being allowed on one car, whilst a claim/convictions are used on all your cars is another pet hate of mine.
Frankly, I’d rather it remained difficult for ‘non UK’ residents to get insurance, which ensures that they’re properly covered at least, which isn’t always the case. As for other countries making it simple by insuring the car, that’s not always true. Many countries have all sorts of restrictions on who can drive the insured car (which often includes non residents of that country) and regular drivers often have to be named anyway.
I agree the restrictions on UK insurance are absurd, and the whole industry is kafkaesque in its complexity - hell, I’m working in that area at the moment.... Two things stand out for me:
1) I have a car in Spain, and I insure it with a Spanish insurer. The standard Spanish policy insures the car for anyone over the age of 25. My car is insured, full stop. I can lend it to friends, I can get the garage to pick it up, its just insured. The policy is not expensive in the slightest - less than I pay for equivalent cars in the UK.
2) Multicar. Why is this so bloody hard for someone who has a fair number of cars? Yes, I know some companies do it, but how can multicar be more expensive that the sum of a set of policies?
1) I have a car in Spain, and I insure it with a Spanish insurer. The standard Spanish policy insures the car for anyone over the age of 25. My car is insured, full stop. I can lend it to friends, I can get the garage to pick it up, its just insured. The policy is not expensive in the slightest - less than I pay for equivalent cars in the UK.
2) Multicar. Why is this so bloody hard for someone who has a fair number of cars? Yes, I know some companies do it, but how can multicar be more expensive that the sum of a set of policies?
Insurance in the states is very different to the UK.
Individual states set their own minimum level of cover, with some states this can be as low as $15000 for damage to other people / property.
So if you are hit by any of the drivers who chose this level of cover (There are plenty) you could be seriously out of pocket.
(The UK has minimum levels of £5m for property and unlimited for death / injury).
If the UK drove on the right hand side of the road, adding drivers from America would not be such an issue.
Americans on holiday have a habit of disappearing back to America without informing the Insurers or not assisting the Insurer in defending the claim. This has traditionally been one of the reasons UK Insurers are not keen on covering them. Due to the workings of the Road Traffic Act with regards to Insurers, this can leave them paying a claim they may not have had to pay and a claim at an inflated price due to them only finding out about the accident when the third party solicitors contact them.
When I arranged insurance for a customer who took his Bentley GT to America for three months it was far more expensive than the UK. He paid about £1300 for an annual policy for third party only cover with a limit of $50000 for damage to other people / property. He paid much less than this for comprehensive cover in the UK.
The UK system saves many people money including me, I just have myself driving my vehicle and as a result I pay far less than if I wanted other people to ever drive me vehicle.
They are different systems, set up to serve different purposes and to comply with the relevant laws of the country.
Individual states set their own minimum level of cover, with some states this can be as low as $15000 for damage to other people / property.
So if you are hit by any of the drivers who chose this level of cover (There are plenty) you could be seriously out of pocket.
(The UK has minimum levels of £5m for property and unlimited for death / injury).
If the UK drove on the right hand side of the road, adding drivers from America would not be such an issue.
Americans on holiday have a habit of disappearing back to America without informing the Insurers or not assisting the Insurer in defending the claim. This has traditionally been one of the reasons UK Insurers are not keen on covering them. Due to the workings of the Road Traffic Act with regards to Insurers, this can leave them paying a claim they may not have had to pay and a claim at an inflated price due to them only finding out about the accident when the third party solicitors contact them.
When I arranged insurance for a customer who took his Bentley GT to America for three months it was far more expensive than the UK. He paid about £1300 for an annual policy for third party only cover with a limit of $50000 for damage to other people / property. He paid much less than this for comprehensive cover in the UK.
The UK system saves many people money including me, I just have myself driving my vehicle and as a result I pay far less than if I wanted other people to ever drive me vehicle.
They are different systems, set up to serve different purposes and to comply with the relevant laws of the country.
The UK is crap, but join Avis Preffered. You can pick up a rental car very fast, infact it could be even faster in the UK compared to US. The Avis dude at Edinburgh Airport recognises me and I've gone from fronting up at the counter to walking with the key in under 30 seconds.
UK car insurance is definitely 100% crap in every dimension.
UK car insurance is definitely 100% crap in every dimension.
Perhaps the UK insurers are balancing the risk and the questions about previous convictions indicates the relative risk between drivers. That seems reasonable to me.
If you wanted the insurers to accept risk without assessing that risk then insurance premiums would need to be increased to cover the mayhem caused by drivers who would be insured under the “who gives a fu*k” assessment you describe that is operated in the USA.
I wouldn’t want to be paying to facilitate carefree acquisition of hire cars and insurance for risky drivers. Also I have hired cars many times in the USA and have had to go through a process of proof that is similar to that used here, licence, convictions or not, proof of address, credit card deposits etc. Maybe you could advertise the hire company who gives away cars and insurance in the states in a willy-nilly fashion so we can all save standing in queues.
The real scandal with insurance is that the insurers accept a premium for risk, when the risk is realised the insurers pay to cover it then charge you to recover their loss...or are they simply making an assessment that you are a risky driver and charge you more? Maybe we should try to get insurers from the USA to cover us here.
If you wanted the insurers to accept risk without assessing that risk then insurance premiums would need to be increased to cover the mayhem caused by drivers who would be insured under the “who gives a fu*k” assessment you describe that is operated in the USA.
I wouldn’t want to be paying to facilitate carefree acquisition of hire cars and insurance for risky drivers. Also I have hired cars many times in the USA and have had to go through a process of proof that is similar to that used here, licence, convictions or not, proof of address, credit card deposits etc. Maybe you could advertise the hire company who gives away cars and insurance in the states in a willy-nilly fashion so we can all save standing in queues.
The real scandal with insurance is that the insurers accept a premium for risk, when the risk is realised the insurers pay to cover it then charge you to recover their loss...or are they simply making an assessment that you are a risky driver and charge you more? Maybe we should try to get insurers from the USA to cover us here.
Schmed said:
UK car insurance is one big mother fking scam. Everywhere else in the world insures the car and anyone can drive it, as it is a standard household policy. If I see family in the US I can drive any of their cars under their insurance, no problem. However back in UK it works a little differently, we insure the driver and not the car. What the actual fk. I’m no American but what backwards profiteering scamming insurance nonsense is this ? If I have family visiting over here, can they drive my cars ? No, not under my insurance unless I add a fking “named” driver to the policy, who incidently also has to be a UK resident. What an absolute fking paperwork nightmare.
Not sure I entirely agree on this one. Insurance is based on risk - and the greater risk lies with the person behind the wheel, not the car.king scam. Everywhere else in the world insures the car and anyone can drive it, as it is a standard household policy. If I see family in the US I can drive any of their cars under their insurance, no problem. However back in UK it works a little differently, we insure the driver and not the car. What the actual fk. I’m no American but what backwards profiteering scamming insurance nonsense is this ? If I have family visiting over here, can they drive my cars ? No, not under my insurance unless I add a fking “named” driver to the policy, who incidently also has to be a UK resident. What an absolute fking paperwork nightmare. If it was the car that was insured - not the driver, then insurance would probably be much more expensive as the insurance would have to assume worst case scenario in terms of the driver (e.g. an inexperienced 17 year old jumping behind the wheel).
Moonhawk said:
Not sure I entirely agree on this one. Insurance is based on risk - and the greater risk lies with the person behind the wheel, not the car.
If it was the car that was insured - not the driver, then insurance would probably be much more expensive as the insurance would have to assume worst case scenario in terms of the driver (e.g. an inexperienced 17 year old jumping behind the wheel).
So how come car insurance appears to be cheaper in other countries, based on the car, rather than driver, being insured?If it was the car that was insured - not the driver, then insurance would probably be much more expensive as the insurance would have to assume worst case scenario in terms of the driver (e.g. an inexperienced 17 year old jumping behind the wheel).
Let's take each of the two rants in order:
1) The paper counterpart was deleted some years ago, as others gave said. Rant failed for incorrect facts.
2) Insurance, you claim the UK insurance is the driver not the car. Rant failed for incorrect facts. In the UK it is the combination of car and driver, not just the driver. Also, in most countries you have standard 3rd party cover only for any driver. If you wish to include all risks then this is specific to vehicle and possibly driver, dependent on country.
OP, check your facts before you rant.
1) The paper counterpart was deleted some years ago, as others gave said. Rant failed for incorrect facts.
2) Insurance, you claim the UK insurance is the driver not the car. Rant failed for incorrect facts. In the UK it is the combination of car and driver, not just the driver. Also, in most countries you have standard 3rd party cover only for any driver. If you wish to include all risks then this is specific to vehicle and possibly driver, dependent on country.
OP, check your facts before you rant.
Biker 1 said:
Moonhawk said:
Not sure I entirely agree on this one. Insurance is based on risk - and the greater risk lies with the person behind the wheel, not the car.
If it was the car that was insured - not the driver, then insurance would probably be much more expensive as the insurance would have to assume worst case scenario in terms of the driver (e.g. an inexperienced 17 year old jumping behind the wheel).
So how come car insurance appears to be cheaper in other countries, based on the car, rather than driver, being insured?If it was the car that was insured - not the driver, then insurance would probably be much more expensive as the insurance would have to assume worst case scenario in terms of the driver (e.g. an inexperienced 17 year old jumping behind the wheel).
When I can put the exact same details into an insurance quote in the UK and get two different prices, that shows the system isn't based on a risk evaluation. I would very much like to see evidence of the fact that someone who buys insurance on a Wednesday is more risk than someone who buys it on a Thursday or how someone named Phil is a higher risk than a Michael.
They've been caught doing very dodgy things before, like charging those with a Hotmail address more.
captain_cynic said:
Because people in other countries aren't being ripped off.
When I can put the exact same details into an insurance quote in the UK and get two different prices, that shows the system isn't based on a risk evaluation. I would very much like to see evidence of the fact that someone who buys insurance on a Wednesday is more risk than someone who buys it on a Thursday or how someone named Phil is a higher risk than a Michael.
They've been caught doing very dodgy things before, like charging those with a Hotmail address more.
The car insurance market in the UK is extremely competitive. Most companies will be making a loss. The things you mention would only be a problem if you didn't shop around, unless you think all the companies are conspiring to charge Wednesday-buying Hotmail users a premium? When I can put the exact same details into an insurance quote in the UK and get two different prices, that shows the system isn't based on a risk evaluation. I would very much like to see evidence of the fact that someone who buys insurance on a Wednesday is more risk than someone who buys it on a Thursday or how someone named Phil is a higher risk than a Michael.
They've been caught doing very dodgy things before, like charging those with a Hotmail address more.
rxe said:
I agree the restrictions on UK insurance are absurd, and the whole industry is kafkaesque in its complexity - hell, I’m working in that area at the moment.... Two things stand out for me:
1) I have a car in Spain, and I insure it with a Spanish insurer. The standard Spanish policy insures the car for anyone over the age of 25. My car is insured, full stop. I can lend it to friends, I can get the garage to pick it up, its just insured. The policy is not expensive in the slightest - less than I pay for equivalent cars in the UK.
2) Multicar. Why is this so bloody hard for someone who has a fair number of cars? Yes, I know some companies do it, but how can multicar be more expensive that the sum of a set of policies?
Oddly enough, the other half's horsebox insurance is for any driver over 25 - they don't need to be declared. It also costs about the same as insuring her Ford Focus (which just has the two of us as named drivers).1) I have a car in Spain, and I insure it with a Spanish insurer. The standard Spanish policy insures the car for anyone over the age of 25. My car is insured, full stop. I can lend it to friends, I can get the garage to pick it up, its just insured. The policy is not expensive in the slightest - less than I pay for equivalent cars in the UK.
2) Multicar. Why is this so bloody hard for someone who has a fair number of cars? Yes, I know some companies do it, but how can multicar be more expensive that the sum of a set of policies?
captain_cynic said:
Because people in other countries aren't being ripped off.
When I can put the exact same details into an insurance quote in the UK and get two different prices, that shows the system isn't based on a risk evaluation. I would very much like to see evidence of the fact that someone who buys insurance on a Wednesday is more risk than someone who buys it on a Thursday or how someone named Phil is a higher risk than a Michael.
They've been caught doing very dodgy things before, like charging those with a Hotmail address more.
I do agree that some of the criteria insurance companies use are very questionable. They do appear to equate correlation with causation.When I can put the exact same details into an insurance quote in the UK and get two different prices, that shows the system isn't based on a risk evaluation. I would very much like to see evidence of the fact that someone who buys insurance on a Wednesday is more risk than someone who buys it on a Thursday or how someone named Phil is a higher risk than a Michael.
They've been caught doing very dodgy things before, like charging those with a Hotmail address more.
jamei303 said:
captain_cynic said:
Because people in other countries aren't being ripped off.
When I can put the exact same details into an insurance quote in the UK and get two different prices, that shows the system isn't based on a risk evaluation. I would very much like to see evidence of the fact that someone who buys insurance on a Wednesday is more risk than someone who buys it on a Thursday or how someone named Phil is a higher risk than a Michael.
They've been caught doing very dodgy things before, like charging those with a Hotmail address more.
The car insurance market in the UK is extremely competitive. Most companies will be making a loss. The things you mention would only be a problem if you didn't shop around, unless you think all the companies are conspiring to charge Wednesday-buying Hotmail users a premium? When I can put the exact same details into an insurance quote in the UK and get two different prices, that shows the system isn't based on a risk evaluation. I would very much like to see evidence of the fact that someone who buys insurance on a Wednesday is more risk than someone who buys it on a Thursday or how someone named Phil is a higher risk than a Michael.
They've been caught doing very dodgy things before, like charging those with a Hotmail address more.
I do shop around, which is why I've noticed that insurers aren't competitive. No-one seems to offer an open driver policy, nor an agreed value policy. These were things I had in Australia for far less than the cheapest quote I've had in the UK.
And yes, all insurers use those kinds of dirty tricks. I think people defending the insurance industry in the UK need to live outside it for a bit to see how abusive the industry really is, instead of relying on tales from their alleged "friends in Germany".
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