Insurance queries.
Discussion
Apologies, it's quite long and not remotely interesting to the casual observer but if someone who knows their onions could put me right it'd be very much appreciated.
Quite some time ago, some div carelessly drive into the side of my wife's car. The exact circumstances are not up for debate, please take my word at face value that a reasonable person would absolutely put him 100% at fault. However, this was what is euphemistically referred to as a 'lane-change incident' and in the modern world, the absence of any video footage would usually result in a split-liability settlement. I don't necessarily have too much of a problem with that, the piece of road in question is very often host to any manner of wuckfitterry and it could be argued that expense would serve as a lasting reminder that being in the right does not necessarily mean that you won't be out of pocket if someone does something stupid. That's really as much as I want to get into that, trust me the TP was wrong but I've always half-expected split-liability.
We reported the incident within an hour of it occurring and began drafting a statement, many google map screenshots and coloured arrows to supplement, and this was submitted the following day. Our car was collected (driveable) and repaired within a month and the insurance company in receipt of the invoice (and therefore at loss and able to commence chasing recompense) within two. To begin with, I would call every couple of weeks to see how the claim was progressing, each time spending an absolute age on hold only to be told that nothing had happened and that they were waiting to hear back from the TP's insurer. Also within a month of the incident I received a text from the TP talking absolute nonsense and making it very clear that they hadn't actually understood what had happened or how. To whit, they weren't paying attention, made a late change of mind and rash manoeuvre only to find a car in their path. I screenshot this and we submitted a clarifying statement to our insurer.
Three and a half months after the incident, I receive an email asking us to provide a sketch plan to describe the circumstances. I forwarded the original statement, photos of the damage to both vehicles, the TP's details and the text screenshot and clarification. The email had come from a claims bod for the parent company so I called to follow up, make sure they'd got everything etc but also to make the point that they really should have had all of this, since it had been submitted quite some time previously. I continue calling every two weeks, spending ages on hold and getting no information. To be fair, there's nothing to tell if the TP is refusing to respond to their insurer so I ask, instead, how long do they allow it to go on, is not the lack of a contradictory statement from the TP a hint that they might be struggling to describe how it wasn't their fault. I'm made aware that basically they're giving them a month at a time before chasing them so I call every month just after the 'deadline'.
This month, I'm told that the claim has been settled 50/50 and the file closed, three weeks ago, with nobody contacting us to let us know. I register my disappointment that we hadn't been contacted. At the very least, we need to chase recovery of half of our excess. Also, all of our policies are due for renewal at the end of the month and we need to know the total cost of the claim and how much NCD my wife has lost (I have been told it would be three years but I've been told a fair bit of nonsense). I also question what the TP has contested had occurred and express my belief that there's a decent chance that it could be self-contradictory since from the circumstances and limited dialogue it seems that they really don't know what happened. Therefore I was hopeful that they'd trip themselves up and it could represent an easy case to win should it go to court.
The chap I spoke to on Tuesday claimed that he'd register an official complaint and that someone would contact me within one working day. I'm still waiting but I've had it confirmed that the complaint had been registered and that someone would contact me today. I'm not holding my breath.
The thing that most bothers me is that it has been claimed that there is no statement from the TP. I'm told that basically their insurer has handed over 50% of the cost and, in the absence of any footage, that's that. Can that be right? If that's the case, can I just drive into the back of people (hypothetically, for whatever reason) and be confident that as long as I make sure there are no independent witnesses or cameras my insurance company will just stump up 50% and say "prove your bloke didn't reverse into our bloke" without me even having to explain myself?
With regard to making a complaint: Firstly, is there any point? I appreciate that, contractually, they may be allowed to conduct the claims process as they see fit but it seems very much that they haven't even tried to mitigate their (and therefore my) loss. If the lack of a TP statement is legit, my complaint would largely be the shoddy manner the whole thing's been handled. If there were a way to be more half-arsed, I doubt that they could be bothered to find it. Secondly, how do I go about it? If their customer care people aren't going to call me, how do I exhaust their complaints procedure? I'm assuming I need to do that before escalating to the Insurance Ombudsman.
Thanks for reading, feel free to be as condescending as you like. And, yes I know, dashcam.
Cheers, Jim
Quite some time ago, some div carelessly drive into the side of my wife's car. The exact circumstances are not up for debate, please take my word at face value that a reasonable person would absolutely put him 100% at fault. However, this was what is euphemistically referred to as a 'lane-change incident' and in the modern world, the absence of any video footage would usually result in a split-liability settlement. I don't necessarily have too much of a problem with that, the piece of road in question is very often host to any manner of wuckfitterry and it could be argued that expense would serve as a lasting reminder that being in the right does not necessarily mean that you won't be out of pocket if someone does something stupid. That's really as much as I want to get into that, trust me the TP was wrong but I've always half-expected split-liability.
We reported the incident within an hour of it occurring and began drafting a statement, many google map screenshots and coloured arrows to supplement, and this was submitted the following day. Our car was collected (driveable) and repaired within a month and the insurance company in receipt of the invoice (and therefore at loss and able to commence chasing recompense) within two. To begin with, I would call every couple of weeks to see how the claim was progressing, each time spending an absolute age on hold only to be told that nothing had happened and that they were waiting to hear back from the TP's insurer. Also within a month of the incident I received a text from the TP talking absolute nonsense and making it very clear that they hadn't actually understood what had happened or how. To whit, they weren't paying attention, made a late change of mind and rash manoeuvre only to find a car in their path. I screenshot this and we submitted a clarifying statement to our insurer.
Three and a half months after the incident, I receive an email asking us to provide a sketch plan to describe the circumstances. I forwarded the original statement, photos of the damage to both vehicles, the TP's details and the text screenshot and clarification. The email had come from a claims bod for the parent company so I called to follow up, make sure they'd got everything etc but also to make the point that they really should have had all of this, since it had been submitted quite some time previously. I continue calling every two weeks, spending ages on hold and getting no information. To be fair, there's nothing to tell if the TP is refusing to respond to their insurer so I ask, instead, how long do they allow it to go on, is not the lack of a contradictory statement from the TP a hint that they might be struggling to describe how it wasn't their fault. I'm made aware that basically they're giving them a month at a time before chasing them so I call every month just after the 'deadline'.
This month, I'm told that the claim has been settled 50/50 and the file closed, three weeks ago, with nobody contacting us to let us know. I register my disappointment that we hadn't been contacted. At the very least, we need to chase recovery of half of our excess. Also, all of our policies are due for renewal at the end of the month and we need to know the total cost of the claim and how much NCD my wife has lost (I have been told it would be three years but I've been told a fair bit of nonsense). I also question what the TP has contested had occurred and express my belief that there's a decent chance that it could be self-contradictory since from the circumstances and limited dialogue it seems that they really don't know what happened. Therefore I was hopeful that they'd trip themselves up and it could represent an easy case to win should it go to court.
The chap I spoke to on Tuesday claimed that he'd register an official complaint and that someone would contact me within one working day. I'm still waiting but I've had it confirmed that the complaint had been registered and that someone would contact me today. I'm not holding my breath.
The thing that most bothers me is that it has been claimed that there is no statement from the TP. I'm told that basically their insurer has handed over 50% of the cost and, in the absence of any footage, that's that. Can that be right? If that's the case, can I just drive into the back of people (hypothetically, for whatever reason) and be confident that as long as I make sure there are no independent witnesses or cameras my insurance company will just stump up 50% and say "prove your bloke didn't reverse into our bloke" without me even having to explain myself?
With regard to making a complaint: Firstly, is there any point? I appreciate that, contractually, they may be allowed to conduct the claims process as they see fit but it seems very much that they haven't even tried to mitigate their (and therefore my) loss. If the lack of a TP statement is legit, my complaint would largely be the shoddy manner the whole thing's been handled. If there were a way to be more half-arsed, I doubt that they could be bothered to find it. Secondly, how do I go about it? If their customer care people aren't going to call me, how do I exhaust their complaints procedure? I'm assuming I need to do that before escalating to the Insurance Ombudsman.
Thanks for reading, feel free to be as condescending as you like. And, yes I know, dashcam.
Cheers, Jim
jimmy the hat said:
I appreciate that, contractually, they may be allowed to conduct the claims process as they see fit
Indeed. They have rights of subrogation. They can settle the claim however they see fit, even 100% your fault, without recourse to you. But it's poor customer service to do so. It takes no time to bash out an email to the policyholder telling them how the claim is being settled and why.
If you want to make a complaint, you'll need to follow their process, which will be stated in your policy document. I would suggest putting it in writing to the address shown is the best route - they will then have to follow a procedure and specified timescales. If you are unhappy with the result, you can then take it to the ombudsman.
The claim is now settled so making a complaint won't change the result, but if you want to make the complaint on principle and to point out what they have done then you never know it might possibly help them train their staff a little better for the next claim.
My experience of personal lines insurers claims handling is that many are quite good at the front end bit - getting your car repaired and back to you etc, but beyond that it's a big black hole with not enough people to deal with the claims, and an unmotivated workforce, hence the 'easy' option of a 50/50 will get used very regularly, even where there is a reasonable chance of a better result.
The claim is now settled so making a complaint won't change the result, but if you want to make the complaint on principle and to point out what they have done then you never know it might possibly help them train their staff a little better for the next claim.
My experience of personal lines insurers claims handling is that many are quite good at the front end bit - getting your car repaired and back to you etc, but beyond that it's a big black hole with not enough people to deal with the claims, and an unmotivated workforce, hence the 'easy' option of a 50/50 will get used very regularly, even where there is a reasonable chance of a better result.
Thanks both. I rather thought as much, to be honest.
Shoddy customer service aside, I'm just more than a little astonished that someone can drive into someone else, blank their insurance company and relieve themselves of 50% of the liability. Less so that this is totally OK with our insurer.
Any advances on this or is this exclusively a 'save yourself some agg and just don't ever give them another penny' scenario?
If it helps, I've got the time to exhaust their complaints procedure and escalate it. Even if this only means that some minion somewhere has to actually go out of their way to do some customer-service once in a while, I'm easily petty enough to bother.
Cheers, Jim
Shoddy customer service aside, I'm just more than a little astonished that someone can drive into someone else, blank their insurance company and relieve themselves of 50% of the liability. Less so that this is totally OK with our insurer.
Any advances on this or is this exclusively a 'save yourself some agg and just don't ever give them another penny' scenario?
If it helps, I've got the time to exhaust their complaints procedure and escalate it. Even if this only means that some minion somewhere has to actually go out of their way to do some customer-service once in a while, I'm easily petty enough to bother.
Cheers, Jim
Just to revive what is possibly the most boring thread ever:
We've been sent a renewal notice which still lists the NCD as it was but with 1 claim this policy year and a reduced premium. Presumably, if I were to bite their arm off, they'd simply increase the premium as soon as they've realised their error. I'm tempted to try it, even though neither of us have the sort of luck that enables us to get away with such things.
Oh, and nobody from their customer (couldn't) care (less) team has called wrt to the complaint. Shocker, eh.
Cheers, Jim
Edit: spillong, slightly less rubbish gag.
We've been sent a renewal notice which still lists the NCD as it was but with 1 claim this policy year and a reduced premium. Presumably, if I were to bite their arm off, they'd simply increase the premium as soon as they've realised their error. I'm tempted to try it, even though neither of us have the sort of luck that enables us to get away with such things.
Oh, and nobody from their customer (couldn't) care (less) team has called wrt to the complaint. Shocker, eh.
Cheers, Jim
Edit: spillong, slightly less rubbish gag.
Edited by jimmy the hat on Tuesday 5th June 13:46
jimmy the hat said:
Just to revive what is possibly the most boring thread ever:
We've been sent a renewal notice which still lists the NCD as it was but with 1 claim this policy year and a reduced premium. Presumably, if I were to bite their arm off, they'd simply increase the premium as soon as they've realised their error.
It may well be correct. Different insurers have different bonus scales. You may have a form of protected bonus where 1 claim doesn't reduce it. If you bite their arm off, I doubt you'll hear another word. Once it's all gone thru, then hassle their customer (lack of) care team. We've been sent a renewal notice which still lists the NCD as it was but with 1 claim this policy year and a reduced premium. Presumably, if I were to bite their arm off, they'd simply increase the premium as soon as they've realised their error.
Nope, NCD wasn't protected but the maximum for this company is 9 years. I suppose it is entirely possible that the 'actual' amount exceeds that and that they've knocked a few years off and that's still only taken it 'down' to 9 but that's pretty unlikely I'd have thought.
Much more likely that their claims team hasn't notified their renewals team that they've settled the claim. We've got until the end of the month so I'll do the comparison crunch with/without and see what difference it makes. In the meantime they might get their act together. Interestingly, in the course of researching exactly how many years NCD she had, it appears that the previous insurer holds an up to date Certificate/Policy documents for this car that we definitely haven't paid for. I think that maybe they're just not always on top of their system housekeeping.
Thanks for correcting my gag, btw. I usually proof-read but I must have still missed that.
Cheers, Jim
Much more likely that their claims team hasn't notified their renewals team that they've settled the claim. We've got until the end of the month so I'll do the comparison crunch with/without and see what difference it makes. In the meantime they might get their act together. Interestingly, in the course of researching exactly how many years NCD she had, it appears that the previous insurer holds an up to date Certificate/Policy documents for this car that we definitely haven't paid for. I think that maybe they're just not always on top of their system housekeeping.
Thanks for correcting my gag, btw. I usually proof-read but I must have still missed that.
Cheers, Jim
jimmy the hat said:
Nope, NCD wasn't protected but the maximum for this company is 9 years. I suppose it is entirely possible that the 'actual' amount exceeds that and that they've knocked a few years off and that's still only taken it 'down' to 9 but that's pretty unlikely I'd have thought.
No, you're right, that won't be how it works. You're probably right, renewals team not advised of the claim by the claims team. There hasn't been a great deal of response to this thread, largely, I'd say, because no one has anything helpful to contribute, so I'm just chiming in now to say that it was a well written first post and thanks for sharing. Yet more motivation for me to install those dash-cams I bought about three years ago.
Interesting and well written read (sadly often lacking these days). I have not claimed for some years but get the impression 50/50 is king and even if you had a dashcam they would still take the easy/lazy/ sh#t admin option. Cheap and easy for them which seems to be their aim.
Are you allowed to say who the insurer was? Was it the cheapest option available?
Pip
Are you allowed to say who the insurer was? Was it the cheapest option available?
Pip
It's occurred to me that the way round this will simply be to slash the NCD and demand the increase in premium as a result of this, regardless of if it happens in six months time. Like I say, we don't have the sort of luck that would mean we'd get away with it. We do have the sort of luck that would mean that we'd get away with it right up until a financially inconvenient time. Like next year's renewal when we'd be also paying the increase on those premiums.
At least if I suck it up, I'll be in control of when I get reamed.
I don't know if I'm allowed to name them but they're part of a group which may be similar to an old Vauxhall model and while I was happy with the quote, much less so with the actual service (you know, the important bit).
A dashcam may have helped in this matter, front and rear even more so but unless it had been caught by a following car's camera or CCTV I could still see them settling with some ratio of split liability.
Cheers, Jim
At least if I suck it up, I'll be in control of when I get reamed.
I don't know if I'm allowed to name them but they're part of a group which may be similar to an old Vauxhall model and while I was happy with the quote, much less so with the actual service (you know, the important bit).
A dashcam may have helped in this matter, front and rear even more so but unless it had been caught by a following car's camera or CCTV I could still see them settling with some ratio of split liability.
Cheers, Jim
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