PCN county court case won but council still want payment!
Discussion
I know there are a million threads about this but my situation seems to be unique, and I can't find much online.
Got a ticket for parking outside my business via CCTV. Have parked there for years without an issue but the council seems to think I parked at the bus stop, however, I was parked in front of it in a space with no markings. L
I appealed the ticket via the council website within the 28 days of the notice. I didn't hear anything back from them. They sent me another notice with an increased charge, again I went to the website and wrote to them via their appeal system that I had appealed, and I was waiting for the outcome. The website didn't allow to attach images, so I had to send an email with the attached screenshot of the first appeals receipt I had gotten via email
After a few weeks, I receive a reply to my email (attached receipt) saying they are busy and the case would be looked at soon. On the very same day, I received a letter via the post again saying I have been ignoring and not made the payment and this would be the last chance before going to county court. I decided to go to county court.
At this point, I had appealed twice via their website as well as providing evidence via email that I had appealed to them denying it all and not acknowledging any of my correspondents.
I received another unpaid penalty charge from the county court stating there were no appeal or payment I had the option of either paying or making a statement. I made a statement and provided all the evidence explaining everything in detail, screenshots, emails, etc.
I won the case from the county court, and they asked the council to revoke the recovery of unpaid penalty charge and ordered the charge certificate to be cancelled, however, said the council can still go ahead with the original PCN. Wtf?
The council have now sent me a letter saying and I quote "The council can confirm that no representation was received from you within the legislative period of time and such a notice of rejection was never issued for the PCN". Again WTF??
I've decided to send the exact documentation I sent to the court showing how many times I appealed and how I tried to contact them many times. The original appeal was sent on the 19th day.
I honestly don't know what to do if they reject that as well. The county court just f
king awarded me the case for proving I had appealed and now the council are saying I didn't. I've sent so many emails, letters, photocopied a million documents and I'm still getting nowhere.
p.s I know the grammer and everytihng is probably st, long day.
Got a ticket for parking outside my business via CCTV. Have parked there for years without an issue but the council seems to think I parked at the bus stop, however, I was parked in front of it in a space with no markings. L
I appealed the ticket via the council website within the 28 days of the notice. I didn't hear anything back from them. They sent me another notice with an increased charge, again I went to the website and wrote to them via their appeal system that I had appealed, and I was waiting for the outcome. The website didn't allow to attach images, so I had to send an email with the attached screenshot of the first appeals receipt I had gotten via email
After a few weeks, I receive a reply to my email (attached receipt) saying they are busy and the case would be looked at soon. On the very same day, I received a letter via the post again saying I have been ignoring and not made the payment and this would be the last chance before going to county court. I decided to go to county court.
At this point, I had appealed twice via their website as well as providing evidence via email that I had appealed to them denying it all and not acknowledging any of my correspondents.
I received another unpaid penalty charge from the county court stating there were no appeal or payment I had the option of either paying or making a statement. I made a statement and provided all the evidence explaining everything in detail, screenshots, emails, etc.
I won the case from the county court, and they asked the council to revoke the recovery of unpaid penalty charge and ordered the charge certificate to be cancelled, however, said the council can still go ahead with the original PCN. Wtf?
The council have now sent me a letter saying and I quote "The council can confirm that no representation was received from you within the legislative period of time and such a notice of rejection was never issued for the PCN". Again WTF??
I've decided to send the exact documentation I sent to the court showing how many times I appealed and how I tried to contact them many times. The original appeal was sent on the 19th day.
I honestly don't know what to do if they reject that as well. The county court just f
king awarded me the case for proving I had appealed and now the council are saying I didn't. I've sent so many emails, letters, photocopied a million documents and I'm still getting nowhere. p.s I know the grammer and everytihng is probably s
t, long day.Sounds like the court decided you had followed the procedure & threw out the extra charges but have effectively wound the clock back to the start point of the original ticket for you to go through the appeals procedure all over again.
Appears the council have no idea what's going on & are presumably just letting a computer churn out more pointless paperwork.
The suggestion of contacting a councillor is a good one.
Appears the council have no idea what's going on & are presumably just letting a computer churn out more pointless paperwork.
The suggestion of contacting a councillor is a good one.
It sounds like your first appeal wasn't recognised, so you went therough the Stat Dec process at Northampton TEC who instructed the council to reset the process.
Did you appeal again after this? Because I have found out previously that it is treated as a new case, and any prior appeal doesn't count after it was reversed by Northampton TEC.
Also check that it is not a separate charge for the same vehicle at the same location but a different time. This has caught our admin team out a few times in the past.
In a similar vein, a private parking company took my company to court last year via the great legal minds at Gladstones. 7 tickets all heard at the same time, and all 7 claims dismissed
Today I have received 4x LBC from BW Legal, that refer to 4 of tickets in the claims that were dismissed last year.
I could string them out and see if they proceed, but I have in the first instance referred them to the reply given in the case of Arkell v. Pressdram.
Did you appeal again after this? Because I have found out previously that it is treated as a new case, and any prior appeal doesn't count after it was reversed by Northampton TEC.
Also check that it is not a separate charge for the same vehicle at the same location but a different time. This has caught our admin team out a few times in the past.
In a similar vein, a private parking company took my company to court last year via the great legal minds at Gladstones. 7 tickets all heard at the same time, and all 7 claims dismissed
Today I have received 4x LBC from BW Legal, that refer to 4 of tickets in the claims that were dismissed last year.
I could string them out and see if they proceed, but I have in the first instance referred them to the reply given in the case of Arkell v. Pressdram.
I'd send a letter by recorded delivery to the source of al this unwarranted communication.
Clearly state the situation and that the fines have been legally overturned and include copies of any documentation you have as proof of this.
Also state that you expect an apology and confirmation with 14 days that all outstanding fines are revoked and any communication other than this will be considered harassment subject to legal consultation and invoice for your time and expenses.
whether it works or not is another matter but I have found that people start to take notice when it could hit them in the pocket.
Clearly state the situation and that the fines have been legally overturned and include copies of any documentation you have as proof of this.
Also state that you expect an apology and confirmation with 14 days that all outstanding fines are revoked and any communication other than this will be considered harassment subject to legal consultation and invoice for your time and expenses.
whether it works or not is another matter but I have found that people start to take notice when it could hit them in the pocket.
DoodoolTala said:
I won the case from the county court, and they asked the council to revoke the recovery of unpaid penalty charge and ordered the charge certificate to be cancelled, however, said the council can still go ahead with the original PCN. Wtf?
Seems to be fairly straightforward.All the penalties and charges post-PCN have been wiped. But the PCN itself still stands. Have you paid it? When was this judgement?
hornmeister said:
I'd send a letter by recorded delivery to the source of al this unwarranted communication.
Clearly state the situation and that the fines have been legally overturned and include copies of any documentation you have as proof of this.
Did this. Sent a 12-page document with all the date clearly highlighted and everything explained via recorded delivery.Clearly state the situation and that the fines have been legally overturned and include copies of any documentation you have as proof of this.
TooMany2cvs said:
DoodoolTala said:
I won the case from the county court, and they asked the council to revoke the recovery of unpaid penalty charge and ordered the charge certificate to be cancelled, however, said the council can still go ahead with the original PCN. Wtf?
Seems to be fairly straightforward.All the penalties and charges post-PCN have been wiped. But the PCN itself still stands. Have you paid it? When was this judgement?
Also why would I want to start the appeal process again when my last 3 attempts have been ignored.
Does anyone know how long the council to reply to a PCN appeal until the PCN gets cancelled? It's been four months now.
The court said the council could proceed with the original FPN didn’t they? So that’s why you need to appeal it again?
Sounds like the court has ruled that all the extra charges etc should be dropped as you tried to follow the process and have evidence of it, but the original FPN still stands and so you need to appeal against it - effectively the process has been reset.
Hard to know without full details of what was said in court but from what you’ve posted that seems to be what’s happening.
Sounds like the court has ruled that all the extra charges etc should be dropped as you tried to follow the process and have evidence of it, but the original FPN still stands and so you need to appeal against it - effectively the process has been reset.
Hard to know without full details of what was said in court but from what you’ve posted that seems to be what’s happening.
As you've already said yourself in your original post - & been told several times - the court threw out the extra charges for non-payment BUT told you that the original ticket still stands.
The court DID NOT find you not guilty of the offence for which the ticket was issued & DID NOT quash the ticket.
Which means you need to go through the appeals process again to get the ticket overturned.
If you don't then you're going to find yourself back to square one with the computer churning out the additional charges for non-payment with the risk that the court might be less sympathetic.
Been a long time since I've had one so I'm presuming if your appeals are refused you would have to go to court to fight the ticket itself?
The court DID NOT find you not guilty of the offence for which the ticket was issued & DID NOT quash the ticket.
Which means you need to go through the appeals process again to get the ticket overturned.
If you don't then you're going to find yourself back to square one with the computer churning out the additional charges for non-payment with the risk that the court might be less sympathetic.
Been a long time since I've had one so I'm presuming if your appeals are refused you would have to go to court to fight the ticket itself?
Edited by paintman on Wednesday 13th June 07:50
A little update.
The council replied and basically admitted to losing my representations, however, they still insist on going ahead with the PCN and have given another 14 days to pay up or make another representation.
I signed up to pepipoo and they agreed that I can easily win the case if it goes to the tribunal with all the evidence I have, however, I would need a notice of rejection first which only comes with a representation, so I need to make another rep. They also drafted me a bunch of laws the council had broken ( 2 pages worth lol) which I included within the representation.
At this point, they either send a Notice Of Rejection and I go to the tribunal and win hopefully or they cancel the PCN and avoid embarrassment.
The council replied and basically admitted to losing my representations, however, they still insist on going ahead with the PCN and have given another 14 days to pay up or make another representation.
I signed up to pepipoo and they agreed that I can easily win the case if it goes to the tribunal with all the evidence I have, however, I would need a notice of rejection first which only comes with a representation, so I need to make another rep. They also drafted me a bunch of laws the council had broken ( 2 pages worth lol) which I included within the representation.
At this point, they either send a Notice Of Rejection and I go to the tribunal and win hopefully or they cancel the PCN and avoid embarrassment.
DoodoolTala said:
A little update.
The council replied and basically admitted to losing my representations, however, they still insist on going ahead with the PCN and have given another 14 days to pay up or make another representation.
I signed up to pepipoo and they agreed that I can easily win the case if it goes to the tribunal with all the evidence I have, however, I would need a notice of rejection first which only comes with a representation, so I need to make another rep. They also drafted me a bunch of laws the council had broken ( 2 pages worth lol) which I included within the representation.
At this point, they either send a Notice Of Rejection and I go to the tribunal and win hopefully or they cancel the PCN and avoid embarrassment.
If the council have missed deadlines then that should be a win. Keep it simple or they'll get confused. More confused.The council replied and basically admitted to losing my representations, however, they still insist on going ahead with the PCN and have given another 14 days to pay up or make another representation.
I signed up to pepipoo and they agreed that I can easily win the case if it goes to the tribunal with all the evidence I have, however, I would need a notice of rejection first which only comes with a representation, so I need to make another rep. They also drafted me a bunch of laws the council had broken ( 2 pages worth lol) which I included within the representation.
At this point, they either send a Notice Of Rejection and I go to the tribunal and win hopefully or they cancel the PCN and avoid embarrassment.
send copies of it all to the leader of the council, explaining that as they are responsible for any incompetencies in their staff, they will be named on your court application for e.g. harassment, and would they like an opportunity to get it resolved first?!
stop dealing with staff who have nothing to lose by continuing as they are...
stop dealing with staff who have nothing to lose by continuing as they are...
dmsims said:
By this stage I would be asking the council for my expenses
Yes, I need to do this. At this stage, I've spent around 6-7 hours dealing with this as well as money spent on ink for photocopies and all the postal stuff has gotten to around £30 minimum. Edited by anonymous-user on Wednesday 4th July 17:14
So since my last update, the council replied to my representation with a generic email saying I had parked in the Bus lane and the PCN still stood, whilst ignoring the 2 pages of laws they had broken.
They offered me to pay the PCN with a reduced fee and then the usual £110 after 28 days or go towards a tribunal hearing (what I wanted).
I applied for the tribunal hearing without making a representation or providing any evidence in order to get the hearing date so I could draft out something proper, eventually got the hearing date for the 3rd of September.
At this point, I've still not submitted anything yet and I end up receiving the following email....
I'm happy with the outcome but I find the council fking pathetic for wasting my time since feb, sending me an unlawful Charge Certificate, taking me to the county court (I won), admitting they lost my representation yet still failing to and cancelling the PCN or even apologising.
Long story short, if you're in the right, fight it till the end and don't be scared of the scummy tactics employed by the councils.
I'm going to make claims cost now to get all the money I've spent as well charge for my time. If I was more of a dhead and had the time I would def go to the press with this.
They offered me to pay the PCN with a reduced fee and then the usual £110 after 28 days or go towards a tribunal hearing (what I wanted).
I applied for the tribunal hearing without making a representation or providing any evidence in order to get the hearing date so I could draft out something proper, eventually got the hearing date for the 3rd of September.
At this point, I've still not submitted anything yet and I end up receiving the following email....
I'm happy with the outcome but I find the council f
king pathetic for wasting my time since feb, sending me an unlawful Charge Certificate, taking me to the county court (I won), admitting they lost my representation yet still failing to and cancelling the PCN or even apologising. Long story short, if you're in the right, fight it till the end and don't be scared of the scummy tactics employed by the councils.
I'm going to make claims cost now to get all the money I've spent as well charge for my time. If I was more of a d
head and had the time I would def go to the press with this.Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 26th August 20:26
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