In the right ?
Discussion
The attached is my view as im driving along. The road ahead is clear as is the lane coming the other way. (Although the distance you can see round the left curve is slightly less than in the picture, because the google street view camera is very high up).
As im driving at 60. I see a cyclist up ahead. I slow to around 40 ish. Preparing for the possibility that by the time i get behind them the lane coming the other way will no longer be free, and - crucially - nethier may the hatched area be, because people very often use this as lane 2 of a dual carriageway. As i get closer to the cyclist. I see traffic approaching in the main lane approaching me. I am checking that the hatched area remains clear as i get closer and closer to the cyclist. As i plan to move slightly into this area to go past. As i get closer the hatched area is still clear coming the other way so i check my right mirror/blind spot and move over. Im alongside the cyclist, by this point the line of traffic coming the otherway in the actual lane is still 50 yards from being alongside me. As im alongside the cyclist half in my lane half in the hatched area i see a blue blurr, as a car going perhaps 90, is now coming towards me in the hatched area. It was passing the line of traffic approaching me. By the time i have time to react to the car, im already past the cyclist, so have space to dive back left. And before we cross paths the line of traffic he is overtaking ends, and he dives to his left (my right).
I'm not the type to say all speed is dangourous, because i don't think it necessarily is. But i don't think I've done wrong, the road was clear in the hatched area for a distance great enough for me to pass a cyclist, unless people coming the otherway are doing nearly a ton that is. A ton in a hatched area that is meant for emergencies and overtaking in special circumstances, not just cruising along like its a lane. Note - there is a sign where this hatched area begins saying "stay in lane".
Thoughts ?
a) you worry too much
b) how do you know he was doing 90 ish?
c) You didn't do wrong unless you drove half a mile round the cyclict like he was going to explode like an aweful lot of people do now. I Frequently find people coming head on at me these days going round cyclists where a couple of metres would have done fine.
b) how do you know he was doing 90 ish?
c) You didn't do wrong unless you drove half a mile round the cyclict like he was going to explode like an aweful lot of people do now. I Frequently find people coming head on at me these days going round cyclists where a couple of metres would have done fine.
RogerDodger said:
a) you worry too much
b) how do you know he was doing 90 ish?
c) You didn't do wrong unless you drove half a mile round the cyclict like he was going to explode like an aweful lot of people do now. I Frequently find people coming head on at me these days going round cyclists where a couple of metres would have done fine.
A) Could well be true.b) how do you know he was doing 90 ish?
c) You didn't do wrong unless you drove half a mile round the cyclict like he was going to explode like an aweful lot of people do now. I Frequently find people coming head on at me these days going round cyclists where a couple of metres would have done fine.
B) Even factoring in human error and confirmation bias, trust me, he was going very quickly.
C) Like i say, i wasnt fully in the hatched area, and i moved back over soon enough, at least i think so.
Don't get me wrong our cars never came very close, my question was more about accountability given the rules governing these hatched areas.
Highway Code Rule 130 said:
Areas of white diagonal stripes or chevrons painted on the road. These are to separate traffic lanes or to protect traffic turning right.
•If the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so.
Depends how you define necessary. Common sense would suggest it is necessary in order to safely overtake a cyclist. Less so if you're simply an impatient tosser who wants to get a few cars ahead, no matter what's coming in the other direction.•If the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so.
From that picture the hatched area doesn't really look wide enough to allow 3 cars all alongside each other safely.
Zetec-S said:
Depends how you define necessary. Common sense would suggest it is necessary in order to safely overtake a cyclist. Less so if you're simply an impatient tosser who wants to get a few cars ahead, no matter what's coming in the other direction.
From that picture the hatched area doesn't really look wide enough to allow 3 cars all alongside each other safely.
People move into this lane and use it as a second lane everytime i use this road. I have seen two people frantically dive in between cars on the respective lefts, after travelling in this area like its a lane. And being surprised at the sight of someone coming the other way doing precisely what they were doing. From that picture the hatched area doesn't really look wide enough to allow 3 cars all alongside each other safely.
Some use it to overtake people, which, albeit not strictly allowed, is argueably not to dangerous. But others just sit in it. Blasting past traffic untill they see an obstruction.
Did you indicate? You may have done but I didn't see it in your OP.
Oncoming fast driver would've been a fair distance when you started your move and it would've been difficult to see you'd edge out. Indicating would've made this clear sooner - whether he'd have slowed is another matter.
Oncoming fast driver would've been a fair distance when you started your move and it would've been difficult to see you'd edge out. Indicating would've made this clear sooner - whether he'd have slowed is another matter.
Sticks. said:
Did you indicate? You may have done but I didn't see it in your OP.
Oncoming fast driver would've been a fair distance when you started your move and it would've been difficult to see you'd edge out. Indicating would've made this clear sooner - whether he'd have slowed is another matter.
Yes i indicated. Oncoming fast driver would've been a fair distance when you started your move and it would've been difficult to see you'd edge out. Indicating would've made this clear sooner - whether he'd have slowed is another matter.
Markjag12 said:
A) Could well be true.
B) Even factoring in human error and confirmation bias, trust me, he was going very quickly.
C) Like i say, i wasnt fully in the hatched area, and i moved back over soon enough, at least i think so.
Don't get me wrong our cars never came very close, my question was more about accountability given the rules governing these hatched areas.
Nice considered answers (rare on here). On balance, I'd refer you back to point A) :-)B) Even factoring in human error and confirmation bias, trust me, he was going very quickly.
C) Like i say, i wasnt fully in the hatched area, and i moved back over soon enough, at least i think so.
Don't get me wrong our cars never came very close, my question was more about accountability given the rules governing these hatched areas.
RogerDodger said:
a) you worry too much
b) how do you know he was doing 90 ish?
Good on those who do! My experience is that people giving more room than they need to is < 1%, people giving the enough room < 70%b) how do you know he was doing 90 ish?
- c) You didn't do wrong unless you drove half a mile round the cyclict like he was going to explode like an aweful lot of people do now. I Frequently find people coming head on at me these days going round cyclists where a couple of metres would have done fine.*
Then there's the 25% who pass too close and 5% who pass far too close so that it's clearly dangerous.
All anecdotal of course.
Markjag12 said:
People move into this lane and use it as a second lane everytime i use this road. I have seen two people frantically dive in between cars on the respective lefts, after travelling in this area like its a lane. And being surprised at the sight of someone coming the other way doing precisely what they were doing.
Some use it to overtake people, which, albeit not strictly allowed, is argueably not to dangerous. But others just sit in it. Blasting past traffic untill they see an obstruction.
It's allowed to use those areas to overtake as the dividing line is broken not solid. However it's denoting a hazard so drivers should take special care when using the hatched area. If people are just sitting in it when not actively overtaking that's just plain wrong.Some use it to overtake people, which, albeit not strictly allowed, is argueably not to dangerous. But others just sit in it. Blasting past traffic untill they see an obstruction.
I imagine it was probably put in to try and make people think more carefully before merrily trying to fit four cars down a road only wide enough for three.
Zetec-S said:
Highway Code Rule 130 said:
Areas of white diagonal stripes or chevrons painted on the road. These are to separate traffic lanes or to protect traffic turning right.
•If the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so.
Depends how you define necessary. Common sense would suggest it is necessary in order to safely overtake a cyclist. Less so if you're simply an impatient tosser who wants to get a few cars ahead, no matter what's coming in the other direction.•If the area is bordered by a broken white line, you should not enter the area unless it is necessary and you can see that it is safe to do so.
From that picture the hatched area doesn't really look wide enough to allow 3 cars all alongside each other safely.
I have changed as I have got older, and these days I consider that waiting a few seconds until the road is absolutely clear, before overtaking a cyclist, pedestrian or horse rider, is my duty for the sake of another person's life? We get loads of all of them on the roads around where I live, and it's just a case of be patient and avoid any risk.
I keep my need for speed for track days - where everyone is going at roughly the same illegal speed without oncoming traffic.
I keep my need for speed for track days - where everyone is going at roughly the same illegal speed without oncoming traffic.
QBee said:
I have changed as I have got older, and these days I consider that waiting a few seconds until the road is absolutely clear, before overtaking a cyclist, pedestrian or horse rider, is my duty for the sake of another person's life? We get loads of all of them on the roads around where I live, and it's just a case of be patient and avoid any risk.
I keep my need for speed for track days - where everyone is going at roughly the same illegal speed without oncoming traffic.
Totally agree, which is why i slowed from my cruising speed the moment i saw them in the distance, preparing to stop if not safe to move over. Saw it safe to move over, firstly , because the traffic coming the other way was not passing cyclists/tractors etc. And therfore had no reason to be in the hatched area. And secondly - and more crucially, i could see the hatched area to be clear for a distance long enough to pass. Giving plenty of room between me and the cyclist. I keep my need for speed for track days - where everyone is going at roughly the same illegal speed without oncoming traffic.
That is of course unless someone one coming the otherway was disregarding both speed limits and road markings ?
Looks like your saying i should make account for others mistakes more so than i already do.
You could be right.
Have a look at this thread, some answers if you sift through it,
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
red said:
Have a look at this thread, some answers if you sift through it,
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Even if a drivers presence in the hatched area was necessary for them to perform a ligitimate overtake. Its only legit if they can see the hatched area to be clear the whole distance they intend to use surely ? In my case they were passing a line of traffic which they should have known they could not finish passing in the distance they could see clear in the hatched area.https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
I'm willing to except that the distance i could see it to be clear was not enough under the specific condition that the person coming the otherway was going over the speed limit.
So perhaps i made an assumption about the speed of someone coming towards me being at all reasonable.
Markjag12 said:
QBee said:
I have changed as I have got older, and these days I consider that waiting a few seconds until the road is absolutely clear, before overtaking a cyclist, pedestrian or horse rider, is my duty for the sake of another person's life? We get loads of all of them on the roads around where I live, and it's just a case of be patient and avoid any risk.
I keep my need for speed for track days - where everyone is going at roughly the same illegal speed without oncoming traffic.
Totally agree, which is why i slowed from my cruising speed the moment i saw them in the distance, preparing to stop if not safe to move over. Saw it safe to move over, firstly , because the traffic coming the other way was not passing cyclists/tractors etc. And therfore had no reason to be in the hatched area. And secondly - and more crucially, i could see the hatched area to be clear for a distance long enough to pass. Giving plenty of room between me and the cyclist. I keep my need for speed for track days - where everyone is going at roughly the same illegal speed without oncoming traffic.
That is of course unless someone one coming the otherway was disregarding both speed limits and road markings ?
Looks like your saying i should make account for others mistakes more so than i already do.
You could be right.
Many of us on this forum have fast cars, and even I do occasionally venture out of the Lorry Lane and into the German Lane on dual carriageways and motorways. I just feel that between Dundee and Lands End there is just too much traffic to make the roads safe enough for the kind of overtaking you describe coming towards you. Well done for being able to avoid his accident. You are clearly doing your best.
I mention track days because I have found they remove 90% of my need to speed on the public road. I take my 4.6 turbo TVR on track days and enjoy its capabilities in an environment where I can corner on the wrong side of the road and drive at 130+mph in relative safety. I recommend track days to everyone with a need for speed.
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