New business Lease disputes with landlord already
Discussion
The other half and her business partner have taken on a new shop lease, and after having the electrics checked out they have come back as unsatisfactory, The landlord says they are responsible, but surely he is if its the building wiring? I would have thought they are just responsible for the safety of any fixtures or fittings the provide/fit?
This website seems to suggest so?
https://www.simplybusiness.co.uk/knowledge/article...
I haven't seen the lease papers they've signed but would think this is just common law? if anyone has any suggestions for where to get advice that'd be great!
Thanks
Jon
This website seems to suggest so?
https://www.simplybusiness.co.uk/knowledge/article...
I haven't seen the lease papers they've signed but would think this is just common law? if anyone has any suggestions for where to get advice that'd be great!
Thanks
Jon
Business lease is very different from residential. Is it a full repairing lease ? normally a business premises is taken on as seen and if you want things changed you get that done before signing. Once you take over the shop it is your responsibility to upgrade to what you need for your needs.
Paul.
Paul.
Generally a commercial lease will be a full repairing and insuring lease (FRI) and the wiring will now be the tenant’s responsibility. You will have to look at the lease to be certain.
It’s a bit late now, but usually the tenant’s solicitor would ask to see an electrical certificate etc before the lease is completed.
It’s a bit late now, but usually the tenant’s solicitor would ask to see an electrical certificate etc before the lease is completed.
Rib said:
and after having the electrics checked out they have come back as unsatisfactory
How "unsatisfactory"?Just not up to current standards? They wouldn't be, unless they've been done very recently. We're currently on Amendment 3 (2016) to the 17th edition (2008) of the wiring regs, with the 18th edition coming into force at New Year. To keep any wiring up to current standards would see them being worked on damn near constantly.
Or are they actively dodgy?
Thanks for the swift replies! All I know currently is things like power sockets and light switches not earthed, it has a modern style fuse box so it shouldn't be that bad I wouldn't have thought, was last tested around 10 years ago I believe.
I appreciate its all abit vague but was just after initial thoughts and possible places to get real advice from for her.
It is an old old listed building in a high street so I wasn't expe ting it to be up to current standards but it's just making sure it's safe and not a fire hazard. I'll see if I can get a copy of the report
I appreciate its all abit vague but was just after initial thoughts and possible places to get real advice from for her.
It is an old old listed building in a high street so I wasn't expe ting it to be up to current standards but it's just making sure it's safe and not a fire hazard. I'll see if I can get a copy of the report
Rib said:
All I know currently is things like power sockets and light switches not earthed
Light switches don't necessarily have to be earthed, as long as they aren't made of metal (caveats apply).Power circuits definitely require an earth though, are you sure that's what the report said? Anything plugged into said sockets with a fault could shock you, I'd be very surprised it's genuinely not earthed though.
start with a conversation with her business' solicitor.
Good idea to try and get some ground rules off PH but imo the specifics of her situation are best dealt with on an individual basis by a professional who presumably was involved in the lease in the 1st place.
hope it works out, as opposed to the 101 different replies you will get from the great PH unwashed.
Good idea to try and get some ground rules off PH but imo the specifics of her situation are best dealt with on an individual basis by a professional who presumably was involved in the lease in the 1st place.
hope it works out, as opposed to the 101 different replies you will get from the great PH unwashed.
This is almost certainly going to depend on what it actually says in the lease - nothing more can be said about it at this point I'm afraid.
Also little point engaging with solicitors (yours or their's) until you have actually read the lease, unless you want to pay someone to read it to you. Have a butcher's yourself and then see if you think anything needs explaining - could even throw it up here and there are plenty of qualified people that can interpret it for you
Also little point engaging with solicitors (yours or their's) until you have actually read the lease, unless you want to pay someone to read it to you. Have a butcher's yourself and then see if you think anything needs explaining - could even throw it up here and there are plenty of qualified people that can interpret it for you
Pretty sure its a Full repair lease so that would say to me that its her responsibility, something I know we had said to be sure to have it surveyed beforehand, but her business partner just seemed to rush everything through and sort it all, and I guess its going to come back and bite them in the ass!
as has been mentioned above I'm more interested to know what NEEDS to be done electrically and what is 'ideal', shes just sent me a picture of the report if anyone can make sense of it. I'm just a little annoyed I should have insisted on making sure they had all the surveys done before signing, but didnt want to butt in and be taking over, the guy leasing it is a local Councillor is has a reputation for being ruthless, he basically owns most of the towns shops so he's going to know exactly what he's doing compared to 2 young women trying to make a business work!
Appreciate the time taken to reply guys.
Jon
as has been mentioned above I'm more interested to know what NEEDS to be done electrically and what is 'ideal', shes just sent me a picture of the report if anyone can make sense of it. I'm just a little annoyed I should have insisted on making sure they had all the surveys done before signing, but didnt want to butt in and be taking over, the guy leasing it is a local Councillor is has a reputation for being ruthless, he basically owns most of the towns shops so he's going to know exactly what he's doing compared to 2 young women trying to make a business work!
Appreciate the time taken to reply guys.
Jon
Rib said:
as has been mentioned above I'm more interested to know what NEEDS to be done electrically and what is 'ideal', shes just sent me a picture of the report if anyone can make sense of it.
That's all fairly trivial, tbh. Nobody's dying in a hurry.1 and 2 - not properly documented. Meh.
3 and 9 - some lights not earthed. Not ideal, but not the end of the world - are they metal fittings? If so, quick, easy and cheap to swap to plastic.
4 and 5 - no RCDs. Old-school.
6 and 7 - damaged and badly fitted sockets. Quick, easy and cheap.
8 - downlighters not fire-rated. Quick, easy and cheap.
10 - DB2 (dist board 2?) shares a breaker with a socket. Meh. Potentially something duff in that socket could trip the entire other board. Don't use the socket...?
6,7,8 are the most important - and the quickest to resolve.
The C3 stuff is "Improvements recommended". This means that they are not dangerous but may not meet the current regulations or may be damaged but not exposing live parts. Ideally you would action them but not actually necessary.
C2 is a potentially dangerous defect. No immediate risk but may become so in the future.
Nothing on there looks overly worrisome or expensive. Running some earths (or, just replacing metal fittings with plastic) and replacing outlets is well within most DIY'ers capabilities as would be replacing downlighters. Remember, you can do the work yourself, if you feel you are competent. You just need to get it signed off again afterwards.
C2 is a potentially dangerous defect. No immediate risk but may become so in the future.
Nothing on there looks overly worrisome or expensive. Running some earths (or, just replacing metal fittings with plastic) and replacing outlets is well within most DIY'ers capabilities as would be replacing downlighters. Remember, you can do the work yourself, if you feel you are competent. You just need to get it signed off again afterwards.
TooMany2cvs said:
That's all fairly trivial, tbh. Nobody's dying in a hurry.
1 and 2 - not properly documented. Meh.
3 and 9 - some lights not earthed. Not ideal, but not the end of the world - are they metal fittings? If so, quick, easy and cheap to swap to plastic.
4 and 5 - no RCDs. Old-school.
6 and 7 - damaged and badly fitted sockets. Quick, easy and cheap.
8 - downlighters not fire-rated. Quick, easy and cheap.
10 - DB2 (dist board 2?) shares a breaker with a socket. Meh. Potentially something duff in that socket could trip the entire other board. Don't use the socket...?
6,7,8 are the most important - and the quickest to resolve.
ye once I got it up on the laptop and read it it doesn't seem all that bad, she was making out to me it needed rewireing! Thanks for the help guys1 and 2 - not properly documented. Meh.
3 and 9 - some lights not earthed. Not ideal, but not the end of the world - are they metal fittings? If so, quick, easy and cheap to swap to plastic.
4 and 5 - no RCDs. Old-school.
6 and 7 - damaged and badly fitted sockets. Quick, easy and cheap.
8 - downlighters not fire-rated. Quick, easy and cheap.
10 - DB2 (dist board 2?) shares a breaker with a socket. Meh. Potentially something duff in that socket could trip the entire other board. Don't use the socket...?
6,7,8 are the most important - and the quickest to resolve.
Oceanrower said:
The C3 stuff is "Improvements recommended". This means that they are not dangerous but may not meet the current regulations or may be damaged but not exposing live parts. Ideally you would action them but not actually necessary.
C2 is a potentially dangerous defect. No immediate risk but may become so in the future.
Nothing on there looks overly worrisome or expensive. Running some earths (or, just replacing metal fittings with plastic) and replacing outlets is well within most DIY'ers capabilities as would be replacing downlighters. Remember, you can do the work yourself, if you feel you are competent. You just need to get it signed off again afterwards.
ye I should be fine for most of it, I've done a bit of wireing alongside an electrician friend so learned the basics for when I get my own house, can change sockets/roses, fitted quite a few downlights etc so will do that and just get them checked over afterwards, along with all the other stuff I've volounteered to do! things we do for love eh?!?! C2 is a potentially dangerous defect. No immediate risk but may become so in the future.
Nothing on there looks overly worrisome or expensive. Running some earths (or, just replacing metal fittings with plastic) and replacing outlets is well within most DIY'ers capabilities as would be replacing downlighters. Remember, you can do the work yourself, if you feel you are competent. You just need to get it signed off again afterwards.
TooMany2cvs said:
Rib said:
as has been mentioned above I'm more interested to know what NEEDS to be done electrically and what is 'ideal', shes just sent me a picture of the report if anyone can make sense of it.
That's all fairly trivial, tbh. Nobody's dying in a hurry.1 and 2 - not properly documented. Meh.
3 and 9 - some lights not earthed. Not ideal, but not the end of the world - are they metal fittings? If so, quick, easy and cheap to swap to plastic.
4 and 5 - no RCDs. Old-school.
6 and 7 - damaged and badly fitted sockets. Quick, easy and cheap.
8 - downlighters not fire-rated. Quick, easy and cheap.
10 - DB2 (dist board 2?) shares a breaker with a socket. Meh. Potentially something duff in that socket could trip the entire other board. Don't use the socket...?
6,7,8 are the most important - and the quickest to resolve.
Alucidnation said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Rib said:
as has been mentioned above I'm more interested to know what NEEDS to be done electrically and what is 'ideal', shes just sent me a picture of the report if anyone can make sense of it.
That's all fairly trivial, tbh. Nobody's dying in a hurry.1 and 2 - not properly documented. Meh.
3 and 9 - some lights not earthed. Not ideal, but not the end of the world - are they metal fittings? If so, quick, easy and cheap to swap to plastic.
4 and 5 - no RCDs. Old-school.
6 and 7 - damaged and badly fitted sockets. Quick, easy and cheap.
8 - downlighters not fire-rated. Quick, easy and cheap.
10 - DB2 (dist board 2?) shares a breaker with a socket. Meh. Potentially something duff in that socket could trip the entire other board. Don't use the socket...?
6,7,8 are the most important - and the quickest to resolve.
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