Closing roads a policy
Discussion
Is it me it does it seem more often than not that councils will close a road at the drop of a hat to do literally anything?
I was made aware of this after driving in France recently, and coming out of a major town on a motorway, going past a busy roundabout seeing a guy cutting grass.
For a start he was cutting grass to enable a clear view (have a work UK councils, half the time we cant see signs let alone other traffic), and second he was just doing this after parking his truck on the roundabout, and driving his mower to and from the areas he was mowing, sounds simple?
In this country if he was doing this on say the M1 or the A1, the inside of the roundabout would have been closed for van access, the lanes where he was mowing would have been closed and everywhere he was going to mow would likely have been closed at least one lane.
How is it that a guy doing this job in France is considered less of a risk than a guy doing the same job in the UK? OK less traffic obviously is one reason.
But really, are we that stupid that blame culture means a guy doing a simple jobs has to cause delays for thousands?
I went past a new supermarket being built in Royston on the A505, the site is on a dual carriageway just after the busiest roundabout in the town, and the entire inside line for the previous road section, and all past the site is closed to allow access to the site, even though there is access via an industrial estate the other site Why delay thousands of people to enable infrequent site access?
We really are past stupid in the UK
I was made aware of this after driving in France recently, and coming out of a major town on a motorway, going past a busy roundabout seeing a guy cutting grass.
For a start he was cutting grass to enable a clear view (have a work UK councils, half the time we cant see signs let alone other traffic), and second he was just doing this after parking his truck on the roundabout, and driving his mower to and from the areas he was mowing, sounds simple?
In this country if he was doing this on say the M1 or the A1, the inside of the roundabout would have been closed for van access, the lanes where he was mowing would have been closed and everywhere he was going to mow would likely have been closed at least one lane.
How is it that a guy doing this job in France is considered less of a risk than a guy doing the same job in the UK? OK less traffic obviously is one reason.
But really, are we that stupid that blame culture means a guy doing a simple jobs has to cause delays for thousands?
I went past a new supermarket being built in Royston on the A505, the site is on a dual carriageway just after the busiest roundabout in the town, and the entire inside line for the previous road section, and all past the site is closed to allow access to the site, even though there is access via an industrial estate the other site Why delay thousands of people to enable infrequent site access?
We really are past stupid in the UK
Aw bless ye olde arm chair expert is in full effect
Working on the roads is one of the riskiest jobs in the UK, have you ever been on the side of a DC with cars going past @ 70 - 120 , its not pleasent
Don't you think its a good thing that preventing injuries, accidents and death is prioritised over inconveniencing people a touch?
Just because lane closure doesn't make sense to you there could be other reasons, often its just logistics, the lights cant be removed the minute the need for them has gone
Working on the roads is one of the riskiest jobs in the UK, have you ever been on the side of a DC with cars going past @ 70 - 120 , its not pleasent
Don't you think its a good thing that preventing injuries, accidents and death is prioritised over inconveniencing people a touch?
Just because lane closure doesn't make sense to you there could be other reasons, often its just logistics, the lights cant be removed the minute the need for them has gone
Lol, the point is surely
Isn't closing a road in the rest if Europe just as damaging to their drivers?
Why do we see the need to do it at the drop of a hat seemingly.
Even lengthy roadworks, in France or Germany they work on the section they need to work on, there are delays there, but they don't build a village next to the road and have average speed generators, sorry cameras and cones for 15 miles, and signs saying delays expected for the next 2 years.
They simply work on the bit they work on, then move down.
I believe there is policy and movement from above to maximise roadworks times, to close roads instantly rather than if necessary and to generally make road users lives as miserable as possible.
As surely the same policies would be used elsewhere in Europe if it were for another reason.
Isn't closing a road in the rest if Europe just as damaging to their drivers?
Why do we see the need to do it at the drop of a hat seemingly.
Even lengthy roadworks, in France or Germany they work on the section they need to work on, there are delays there, but they don't build a village next to the road and have average speed generators, sorry cameras and cones for 15 miles, and signs saying delays expected for the next 2 years.
They simply work on the bit they work on, then move down.
I believe there is policy and movement from above to maximise roadworks times, to close roads instantly rather than if necessary and to generally make road users lives as miserable as possible.
As surely the same policies would be used elsewhere in Europe if it were for another reason.
Gafferjim said:
It's because we have some of the stupidest drivers around. You have to cater for the lowest denominator.
We have the safest roads in Europe .. So the relativity stupidity of the drivers may not be as important a factor as logic might suggest.As for the rest closing roads etc does need to be balanced. Increased congestion could indirectly lead to deaths.
Edited by Graveworm on Thursday 12th July 22:50
chunder27 said:
I believe there is policy and movement from above to maximise roadworks times, to close roads instantly rather than if necessary and to generally make road users lives as miserable as possible.
Yes that's right. Cash-strapped councils are paying their roadworks contractors additional money to take as long as possible to carry out road repairs.Good grief.
Graveworm said:
We have the safest roads in Europe .. So the relativity stupidity of the drivers may not be as important a factor as logic might suggest.
As for the rest closing roads etc does need to be balanced. Increased congestion could indirectly lead to deaths.
Possibly something to do with taking safety seriously and preventing a workman/vehicle interface? :-)As for the rest closing roads etc does need to be balanced. Increased congestion could indirectly lead to deaths.
Edited by Graveworm on Thursday 12th July 22:50
Cmon, you seriously think councils are that cash strapped. Only because they are petrified of putting up council tax too much after the riots years ago, most of them now buy property!,, Cash strapped my arse.
How many times have you gone past a set of roadworks, seen them digging, stick up a set of lights, leave it for 4 days then come back on Friday to finish. It has happened 4 times this year on a road I use.
How many times have you gone past a set of roadworks, seen them digging, stick up a set of lights, leave it for 4 days then come back on Friday to finish. It has happened 4 times this year on a road I use.
chunder27 said:
Cmon, you seriously think councils are that cash strapped. Only because they are petrified of putting up council tax too much after the riots years ago, most of them now buy property!,, Cash strapped my arse.
How many times have you gone past a set of roadworks, seen them digging, stick up a set of lights, leave it for 4 days then come back on Friday to finish. It has happened 4 times this year on a road I use.
Wow, on a forum with a number of people who really languish in their victim status, this takes the biscuit. You really think that councils deliberately inconvenience "Britain's beleaguered motorist"? Are they in league with The Daily Mail to fill up column inches with pity stories about how everybody is 'out to get them', possibly taking a back-hander in the process?How many times have you gone past a set of roadworks, seen them digging, stick up a set of lights, leave it for 4 days then come back on Friday to finish. It has happened 4 times this year on a road I use.
Damn, I thought my dear departed mother had issues with auditory and visual hallucinations, but being persecuted by The Apparatus of the State is pretty serious going...
oyster said:
Yes that's right. Cash-strapped councils are paying their roadworks contractors additional money to take as long as possible to carry out road repairs.
Good grief.
My local council are so cash strapped there's a whole raft of senior positions paying salaries of £80k - £110k. How ever do they manage ?Good grief.
I think the OP has a point. In the village where I am traffic lights pop up ever more regularly, pretty much every week for something or another. Up until a few years ago I don't think there had ever been any here, even when major works have taken place. The health and safety card gets played all the time and no one wants to argue it for fear of a risk.
MuscleSaloon said:
oyster said:
Yes that's right. Cash-strapped councils are paying their roadworks contractors additional money to take as long as possible to carry out road repairs.
Good grief.
My local council are so cash strapped there's a whole raft of senior positions paying salaries of £80k - £110k. How ever do they manage ?Good grief.
I think the OP has a point. In the village where I am traffic lights pop up ever more regularly, pretty much every week for something or another. Up until a few years ago I don't think there had ever been any here, even when major works have taken place. The health and safety card gets played all the time and no one wants to argue it for fear of a risk.
You get the staff you are willing to pay for and the service that comes with it.
Flumpo said:
£80-110 isn’t a lot if they are senior jobs. Their private sector equivalents will likely earn a lot more.
You get the staff you are willing to pay for and the service that comes with it.
I get that they have to pay what is required to secure staff obviously. There's still an awful lot of wasted money that someone who has worked a regular low paid job in the private sector would struggle to understand. My closest neighbour worked for my local City council for years. One position would terminate and another would be created, usually in a completely unrelated field but in something he was interested in. Stories he's told about spend on new equipment, furniture, supplies - basically everything - was mind boggling to me at least. At 50 they offered a retirement package that he could not refuse. Now in his 60s he's not worked for years while the rest of us are told we wont see a pension till we are nearly 70! Local councils aren't cash strapped in the sense that most of us would see it. You get the staff you are willing to pay for and the service that comes with it.
MuscleSaloon said:
Flumpo said:
£80-110 isn’t a lot if they are senior jobs. Their private sector equivalents will likely earn a lot more.
You get the staff you are willing to pay for and the service that comes with it.
I get that they have to pay what is required to secure staff obviously. There's still an awful lot of wasted money that someone who has worked a regular low paid job in the private sector would struggle to understand. My closest neighbour worked for my local City council for years. One position would terminate and another would be created, usually in a completely unrelated field but in something he was interested in. Stories he's told about spend on new equipment, furniture, supplies - basically everything - was mind boggling to me at least. At 50 they offered a retirement package that he could not refuse. Now in his 60s he's not worked for years while the rest of us are told we wont see a pension till we are nearly 70! Local councils aren't cash strapped in the sense that most of us would see it. You get the staff you are willing to pay for and the service that comes with it.
The answer being they either don’t have the right experience, qualifications, skills or the are kidding themselves that job exists. Life doesn’t land to you on a plate and the grass isn’t always greener.
I’ve worked in some very big private sector companies where the waste is huge and people can hide without doing any work.
I’ve also worked in some public sector jobs where people have gone home crying saying they have never been worked so hard for salaries I cant understand how they pay the bills or have a life.
At the moment I would much rather work in the private sector.
I have regularly engaged the use of traffic management in the private sector - generally just small works, pedestrian safety, short duration/length traffic signals etc. Every time though, although my end client pays the bill, I do query the costs and where possible look to other suppliers to see if there are any economies to be made.
Likewise with organising plant, I will compare suppliers rate cards to see whom will be cheapest and have been known to negotiate costs down for the end client.
I wonder if those in the public sector will bother with finding the best price or just use their one approved supplier who can charge them what they want as they know they are the only supplier??
A company I used to work for, all their plant requirements had to go through one supplier, whom, if they couldn't supply the equipment would cross hire out and add 10 to 20% on. I always questioned why we couldn't use other suppliers, or go direct to the 2nd tier ourselves to stop the cross hire charges. I suspect that there were some back handers going on at a higher level.
I also suspect this is what goes in in public sector, they have one approved supplier of their traffic management, the costs are astronomical and so the amount of highways / verges they can maintain is now severely reduced to days gone by.
Likewise with organising plant, I will compare suppliers rate cards to see whom will be cheapest and have been known to negotiate costs down for the end client.
I wonder if those in the public sector will bother with finding the best price or just use their one approved supplier who can charge them what they want as they know they are the only supplier??
A company I used to work for, all their plant requirements had to go through one supplier, whom, if they couldn't supply the equipment would cross hire out and add 10 to 20% on. I always questioned why we couldn't use other suppliers, or go direct to the 2nd tier ourselves to stop the cross hire charges. I suspect that there were some back handers going on at a higher level.
I also suspect this is what goes in in public sector, they have one approved supplier of their traffic management, the costs are astronomical and so the amount of highways / verges they can maintain is now severely reduced to days gone by.
MuscleSaloon said:
My local council are so cash strapped there's a whole raft of senior positions paying salaries of £80k - £110k. How ever do they manage ?
I think the OP has a point. In the village where I am traffic lights pop up ever more regularly, pretty much every week for something or another. Up until a few years ago I don't think there had ever been any here, even when major works have taken place. The health and safety card gets played all the time and no one wants to argue it for fear of a risk.
I'm betting you don't think those "senior positions" are doing a very good job. Would you prefer a "whole raft" of people in those positions who are only able to command £25k a year? Do you really think they'd do a decent job?I think the OP has a point. In the village where I am traffic lights pop up ever more regularly, pretty much every week for something or another. Up until a few years ago I don't think there had ever been any here, even when major works have taken place. The health and safety card gets played all the time and no one wants to argue it for fear of a risk.
I work for the 'semi public sector'. The reason we do the approved supplier thing is because of the financial regulations in place to ensure we don't waste public money and - critically - are seen not to. The costs of the typical projects we deal with (mainly not roads but we have done them for site expansion/maintenance etc) mean they have to go out to international tender (really) - anything over £25K for us (so more or less everything). This all takes forever (even if you can pick up all the scoring criteria etc. etc. from a similar project, the tender has to be out for a minimum period of time to give people a chance to bid). It also costs, and is challenged by losing bidders more often than you'd think (you need pure-as-the-driven-snow documentation showing how you objectively came to your decision). So for getting things done within a human lifetime approved supplies it is. They probably do overcharge (but they can't push their luck too much because they get regularly reviewed for performance & value for money - and they *do* get dumped and replaced if we're not happy with them). And everyone is wise to the tricks (e.g. breaking a bigger job up). In the end, it's about making sure there are no backhanders (or at least there are fewer and it's harder) - and it does cost a bit to do that.
Surely the public sector will go out to tender on road management etc and as it is a competitive tender they should result in the cheapest supplier (subject to quality, fitness etc). I suspect they offer a 3 yr contract or something and then re-tender it.
There are Officers at Councils that have retired early, these days its usually because of cutbacks, so for example our local council shares an environmental team with a neighbouring council, so one of them got rid of the head of department etc
There are Officers at Councils that have retired early, these days its usually because of cutbacks, so for example our local council shares an environmental team with a neighbouring council, so one of them got rid of the head of department etc
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