Bus lane PCN and markings

[windymissile]

My wife recently received a PCN from Leeds city council for encroachment into a bus lane.
The picture they provide proves she was where they say she was at the time of the offence. Her argument is that the bus lane was not correctly marked.
What are the regulations for marking a bus lane? From the limited information I can find, it seems to be signified by the end of the solid white line.
The white line she crossed was not solid, it was broken through abrasion. As you can imagine, in busy commuter traffic and keeping a close eye out for busses in her mirror, a quick glance at the line showed it was broken and she crossed to turn left 20m later.


I have tried to show where she was when she crossed.
Do we stump up the £30 and learn the lesson or do we have a case for incorrect marking?

Cheers.

[LunarOne]

Whether you stump up the £30 is up to you. I've just been stung for being in a bus lane that is about 20 yards long under a railway bridge in Reading. I'm not familiar with Reading and was looking for the train station drop-off point so didn't see the tiny sign, nor did I notice the lane markings under the bridge. In the photo they sent me, there is no other traffic and I wasn't impeding anything. On that basis I have appealed, although I don't really expect it to succeed. The fine is for a purely technical infringement. I've never been caught in a bus lane before except in Reading, where I was caught out by confusing signage earlier in the year.

https://goo.gl/maps/YZhXoYcZ7By

[windymissile]

After a bit more reading:


All traffic sign manuals: http://tsrgd.co.uk/documents/traffic-signs-manual

The one in question: http://tsrgd.co.uk/pdf/tsm/tsm-chapter-05.pdf

I have written an appeal for her. It's clear the bus lane is not separated by a solid white line at the point where she crossed. Para 17.5.

It's a technicality but I cant see how they can argue. She is also after the last bus lane sign. The next sign shows "left turn and busses only" As she was going left, she was allowed to be in the lane. I doubt it's 30m to the junction either. Another contravention of the rules.

Silly of her as she does this route 3x a week and should know better. It's a lesson learned, I'm just hoping it doesn't cost her £30.

[cuprabob]

It does seem a bit harsh and certainly worth appealing.my only concern would be the arrow just after the actual end of the bus lane.

[bilhound]

Is this from a bus lane camera or camera car? If the former then I imagine lots of people will be victim to the worn markings - if they haven't repainted the markings then they aren't worried worn lines enabling successful appeals. If camera car then unlucky and worth appealing.

[windymissile]

It's a bus lane camera. I guess it gets a lot of people and most just pay.
We've appealed and I'll update when we get a reply.
Cheers.

[silverfoxcc]

is there a blue sign saying 'End of Bus Lane, together with an arrow on the road indicating that is is now permissable to use the inside (i most case) lane

There are other sites that know the minute details of Bus lane signage. It could be worth having a word with them. It may not comply with the regs

It is possible that the council have balls up

[Trax]

I know this idiotic bus lane vey well. Traffic turning left, has to wait in traffic, causes further congestion and pollution, but I guess Leeds council don't care about that.

They recently extended the turn left bit, after they put the cameras in last year. I guess part of your argument ( I know you've already submitted it) could be that the wife turned adjacent to the sign, and she could not see the arrows 10m in front, due to vehicles covering them?

Whoever invented these should be shot, but Im soft.....

[Davidonly]

Do we really need to continue to live this way?

This and the thread from the poor chap with a poorly missus in the car being, fined for speeding in a dumb (and empty) VSL makes me wonder if things have maybe gone a bit far...?

Yup some will be along here shortly to say we can always use the ballot box and should 'campaign for changes', but how exactly? Not being treated like a child / idiot / criminal at every opportunity doesn't appear in any manifesto I have ever seen..... This should not need a ballot box - common sense ought to do it.

Apathy is now relied upon particularly by the halfwits in local gov to ensure their mouth-breathing antics are perpetuated ad-nauseam

[Trax]

Trax said:

They recently extended the turn left bit, after they put the cameras in last year. I guess part of your argument ( I know you've already submitted it) could be that the wife turned adjacent to the sign, and she could not see the arrows 10m in front, due to vehicles covering them?

I know I am quoting myself, but are you sure your wife turned into the bus lane were that sign is? That must be an old picture, as the lane ends just before that sign now, as I drove past it the other day. Might be worth having a look.

[windymissile]

Yeah. That was a guestimation based on Google maps. It was actually further on than that.

[Trax]

I suppose you have to look at the picture from the fine, the lane now ends just before the sign and lamp post, and has done for a good few months - so before where you drew the line on the google image.

[windymissile]

Just to close this out.
My arguement was not contested and the fine was quashed.
It's taken them months but we had confirmation today that they have cancelled the PCN after reviewing my appeal.

WM

[Pica-Pica]

windymissile said:

Just to close this out.
My arguement was not contested and the fine was quashed.
It's taken them months but we had confirmation today that they have cancelled the PCN after reviewing my appeal.

WM

Quite right too. Well done.

[anonymous-user]

Pica-Pica said:

windymissile said:

Just to close this out.
My arguement was not contested and the fine was quashed.
It's taken them months but we had confirmation today that they have cancelled the PCN after reviewing my appeal.

WM

Quite right too. Well done.

See if the local press are interested taking on the story to prevent others "being mugged" by incorrect lining etc.
What's good for the goose and all that.

[windymissile]

I was thinking about something along those lines. Too much "noise" and I think they will close that particular loophole. I may just edit the thread op to include more detail, so should anyone search, they stand a good chance of finding the relevant information.

[speedking31]

That doesn't make sense. Better to get the signage and linage sorted to save others the hassle than to preserve a 'loophole' that people have to contest. Unless the time saving of your own private early exit exceeds that public spiritedness.

[Trax]

windymissile said:

I was thinking about something along those lines. Too much "noise" and I think they will close that particular loophole. I may just edit the thread op to include more detail, so should anyone search, they stand a good chance of finding the relevant information.

I don't think you found a loophole. Have you been provided with the actual picture of the contravention? Like I said near the start of the thread, the markings have changed since the Google picture you posted, and the bus lane ends a metre-ish below your orange line, pretty much where it starts to break up. That had been in place a month or so before my/your post, so may have been before the alleged offence.

It may be that they continued to send tickets out for drivers crossing into the left lane perfectly legally, and that's why yours was dropped? If so, how many have just paid, when they shouldn't have done? If so, then need to make noise.....

[windymissile]

Hi Trax.
Yeah. We got the pictures and my wife had clearly crossed what they deamed to be the dividing line.
I contested the fact that the line was not solid as it should be according to the regulations.

I guess 90% or even more just cough up.