Discussion
Presumably now that we know we have Mr Blair back for a few more years with a massive 36.3% mandate, we can rest assured that the proliferation of speed cameras, Scumera partnerships, etc will continue. While the Conservatives were in favour of removing both (I generalise), I don't imagine that there are 30-plus Labour backbenchers willing to stand up for the same and overturn Labour policy.
Therefore, we must accept that change is unlikely to come via democracy for a few more years. How do we view that future? How should we react?
Let's hope BLiar says he will NOT remove scameras ... on his performance with the truth to date ...
Heard last night that Australia is reopening for significant immigration. Shortages of plumbers, hairdressers, panel-bashers, etc. Where's the nearest government-funded retraining scheme?
Streaky
Heard last night that Australia is reopening for significant immigration. Shortages of plumbers, hairdressers, panel-bashers, etc. Where's the nearest government-funded retraining scheme?
Streaky
Peter Ward said:
Presumably now that we know we have Mr Blair back for a few more years with a massive 36.3% mandate, we can rest assured that the proliferation of speed cameras, Scumera partnerships, etc will continue. While the Conservatives were in favour of removing both (I generalise), I don't imagine that there are 30-plus Labour backbenchers willing to stand up for the same and overturn Labour policy.
Therefore, we must accept that change is unlikely to come via democracy for a few more years. How do we view that future? How should we react?
I really don't believe that it would have made any difference Peter. Even I, said on here that if Mr Howard gave an unequivical guarantee to scrap the policy on scameras that I would vote for him and his party.
It was such a vote winner, waiting to be said: but no-one said it. Nah! it won't happen Peter, as you say, they are being used everywhere in the world, increasingly so, by all shades of politician.
Usually when faced with things like this, history tells us that the public resort to direct action to make their feelings known.
Just Out of curiosity What is the total revenue (per year)passing through the hands of the partnerships and how many people are employed.
I can't see any politician of any party wanting to lose the revenue these things generate and they will certainly not want to be assosciated with any scheme that puts these people out of work.
Perhaps some of the pistonhead contributors who have "inside" knowledge could give us some figures on revenue and head count?
Additionally as these partnerships have to cover their own costs do they have revenue targets to meet? If so what happens as people become more aware of the fixed cameras and the revenue from these dries up Do they lower the target limits or just get more sneaky with mobiles?
I can't see any politician of any party wanting to lose the revenue these things generate and they will certainly not want to be assosciated with any scheme that puts these people out of work.
Perhaps some of the pistonhead contributors who have "inside" knowledge could give us some figures on revenue and head count?
Additionally as these partnerships have to cover their own costs do they have revenue targets to meet? If so what happens as people become more aware of the fixed cameras and the revenue from these dries up Do they lower the target limits or just get more sneaky with mobiles?
revenue is relatively simple to calculate:
£60 * number of prosecutions, therefore 2 million prosecutions = £120 million.
Staffing will depend on types of equipment deployed. Fixed cameras require less staff. I would guess 1 mobile system requires 4-6 staff to keep 'on the pavement', whereas fixed cameras require maintenance only. I would guess that a county with 4 mobiles and a few fixed probably has a crew of 20 plus 3 or 4 manager types.
Most of them will work on a budget system, so the cost to run needs to be exceeded by the income therefore need X prosecutions to cover costs.
£60 * number of prosecutions, therefore 2 million prosecutions = £120 million.
Staffing will depend on types of equipment deployed. Fixed cameras require less staff. I would guess 1 mobile system requires 4-6 staff to keep 'on the pavement', whereas fixed cameras require maintenance only. I would guess that a county with 4 mobiles and a few fixed probably has a crew of 20 plus 3 or 4 manager types.
Most of them will work on a budget system, so the cost to run needs to be exceeded by the income therefore need X prosecutions to cover costs.
deeps said:
Avon and Somerset scameraship employ over 100 staff and are expanding!
Yes they have operational targets, this years target is 126000 prosecutions, the same as last year so they should easily exceed this.
...and for sure, if a camera isn't meeting its targets, it'll be moved to a more lucrative venue. Also, to raise income, they'll try to get limits lowered.
I don't think that the tory's would have removed the camera partnerships at all. Didn't anyone listen to the 3 prospective Transport Secs' on Radio 2 the other day. Lab, Tory and LibDem all supported the system and the objectives of it. The Tory boy did say he would have demanded a review of all cameras, hey ho, review them and carry on. It's hardly an cry to get rid as was claimed.
Jewhoo said:
I spotted that too. All the Tories said was that they would review the sites and leave the ones they felt should be left....which presumably means all of them
As they were all scruitinized and justified before they were installed, that is exactly the size of it.
If they had bothered to ask how they were justified before they made their vote grabbing (ooops) statement they would have known that their statement was quite empty, perhaps they did know.
destroyer said:
I don't think that the tory's would have removed the camera partnerships at all. Didn't anyone listen to the 3 prospective Transport Secs' on Radio 2 the other day. Lab, Tory and LibDem all supported the system and the objectives of it. The Tory boy did say he would have demanded a review of all cameras, hey ho, review them and carry on. It's hardly an cry to get rid as was claimed.
But we will still keep at it.
Besides - you love us really ....
Heck - one of your talivans now waves at Wildy and the kids... 
Now used to our youngest sons being "rogues" Sooner or later - the fad will change. Seen it all in medicine....
We've seen it in teaching too. we are now back to singing times tables as I did as boy.
We eventually go back to tried, tested and proven to work
It will come - eventually .....even under Bliar...
james_j said:
Avon and Somerset scameraship employ over 100 staff and are expanding!
Yes they have operational targets, this years target is 126000 prosecutions, the same as last year so they should easily exceed this.
...and for sure, if a camera isn't meeting its targets, it'll be moved to a more lucrative venue. Also, to raise income, they'll try to get limits lowered.
Already doing it on the M4/5. 40mph limit FFS! Why don't they just employ a team of flag bearers for us all to drive behind. Tw@s !
Phil
Mad Moggie said:
I don't think that the tory's would have removed the camera partnerships at all. Didn't anyone listen to the 3 prospective Transport Secs' on Radio 2 the other day. Lab, Tory and LibDem all supported the system and the objectives of it. The Tory boy did say he would have demanded a review of all cameras, hey ho, review them and carry on. It's hardly an cry to get rid as was claimed.
But we will still keep at it.
Besides - you love us really ....
Sooner or later - the fad will change. Seen it all in medicine....
We've seen it in teaching too. we are now back to singing times tables as I did as boy.
We eventually go back to tried, tested and proven to work
It will come - eventually .....even under Bliar...
Yeah, they reinvented the wheel, made it square. Sooner or later it will dawn on these people that the current obsession with speed limits is not doing a whole lot of good and things will improve.
The most vehement opposition to camera partneships and their approach to road safety (especially on motorways and NSL zones) comes from the most experienced and safest drivers. We're out there, see what's going on all the time but are seldom consulted by the authorities who prefer to paw over statisitics and add their interpretation to them.
One thing that I have noticed though - as part of my job I work with statistics (critical fault logging and analysis on large computer systems) and I can assure everybody that regression to the mean is a very real phenomenon. Eh Destroyer?
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