Slower and more Average Speed Cameras
Discussion
Seems one sided as ever but here is another 'Government Review'
http://roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/review-national-sp...
50mph may be a lofty goal for cross-country travel soon perhaps ?
OMG the future is bleak...!
http://roadsafetygb.org.uk/news/review-national-sp...
50mph may be a lofty goal for cross-country travel soon perhaps ?
OMG the future is bleak...!
The idiots who made that "review" obviously don't remember when the USA introduced a national 55 mph limit that the number of accidents increased.
If a 50 limit is introduced then the nervous drivers will be doing 40-45 which means the number of overtakes by those wishing to go faster will increase (some of which could be risky).
At the present 60 most drivers would probably not overtake.
If a 50 limit is introduced then the nervous drivers will be doing 40-45 which means the number of overtakes by those wishing to go faster will increase (some of which could be risky).
At the present 60 most drivers would probably not overtake.
Jagmanv12 said:
The idiots who made that "review" obviously don't remember when the USA introduced a national 55 mph limit that the number of accidents increased.
If a 50 limit is introduced then the nervous drivers will be doing 40-45 which means the number of overtakes by those wishing to go faster will increase (some of which could be risky).
At the present 60 most drivers would probably not overtake.
I completely agree. More often than not when behind someone doing 50-55 in an NSL I'll hold behind, doing 40 something if safe I'll overtake them. In 50's the default often becomes 35-early 40's, and that just isn't making decent progress. Pissing a lot of road users off with drivers going slower than ideal can only lead to more accidents, when people are only concentrating on getting past them. If a 50 limit is introduced then the nervous drivers will be doing 40-45 which means the number of overtakes by those wishing to go faster will increase (some of which could be risky).
At the present 60 most drivers would probably not overtake.
Vive La France!
It's difficult enough trying to find a long strech of NSL anywhere in the south IME; Most already 50s / 40s - Plenty of sweeping, open sighted bends that could easily be taken above NSL (Not that I'm advocating anything :P ) Reduced to 40 Limits, Anti-skid surface, multiple slow-on-road painting, rumble strips et al.
It seems that nobody can cope without a helping hand now
It's difficult enough trying to find a long strech of NSL anywhere in the south IME; Most already 50s / 40s - Plenty of sweeping, open sighted bends that could easily be taken above NSL (Not that I'm advocating anything :P ) Reduced to 40 Limits, Anti-skid surface, multiple slow-on-road painting, rumble strips et al.
It seems that nobody can cope without a helping hand now
Haltamer said:
Vive La France!
It's difficult enough trying to find a long strech of NSL anywhere in the south IME; Most already 50s / 40s - Plenty of sweeping, open sighted bends that could easily be taken above NSL (Not that I'm advocating anything :P ) Reduced to 40 Limits, Anti-skid surface, multiple slow-on-road painting, rumble strips et al.
It seems that nobody can cope without a helping hand now
Your view on France is outdated, I’m afraid.It's difficult enough trying to find a long strech of NSL anywhere in the south IME; Most already 50s / 40s - Plenty of sweeping, open sighted bends that could easily be taken above NSL (Not that I'm advocating anything :P ) Reduced to 40 Limits, Anti-skid surface, multiple slow-on-road painting, rumble strips et al.
It seems that nobody can cope without a helping hand now
Zod said:
That was the joke 
It certainly seems we are going the same way
I know a few road engineers that work for the local council that are of the incline that speed is THE ONLY FACTOR in accident causalities.
They will argue to the end of the earth that (1) speed increases the liklihood of an accident and (2) that speed increases the severity of an accident..... and with those two very simplified points they will attempt to resolve any section of road that is affected by an unwanted accident rate.
They have told me a few times that they are more than happy to push for as many speed restrictions as they can get away with.
Sad times.
They will argue to the end of the earth that (1) speed increases the liklihood of an accident and (2) that speed increases the severity of an accident..... and with those two very simplified points they will attempt to resolve any section of road that is affected by an unwanted accident rate.
They have told me a few times that they are more than happy to push for as many speed restrictions as they can get away with.
Sad times.
Atomic12C said:
I know a few road engineers that work for the local council that are of the incline that speed is THE ONLY FACTOR in accident causalities.
They will argue to the end of the earth that (1) speed increases the liklihood of an accident and (2) that speed increases the severity of an accident..... and with those two very simplified points they will attempt to resolve any section of road that is affected by an unwanted accident rate.
They have told me a few times that they are more than happy to push for as many speed restrictions as they can get away with.
Sad times.
One of their KPIs is likely to be the reduction of casualties. They will argue to the end of the earth that (1) speed increases the liklihood of an accident and (2) that speed increases the severity of an accident..... and with those two very simplified points they will attempt to resolve any section of road that is affected by an unwanted accident rate.
They have told me a few times that they are more than happy to push for as many speed restrictions as they can get away with.
Sad times.
They can see that reducing the average speed of traffic on their network is a way of achieving their targets. Not only that but all of the advice they have seen is that works...among other things.
What do you suggest they do? Open the roads up to less regulation and have weekend motorsports speed and traffic regulation for petrol heads perhaps. They can see that a proportion of drivers are determined to drive to a standard that is essentially of their own determination while others simply don't give a fu*k about traffic regulation so are ignorant of it. If you drive the way you think is safe while ignoring the regulations already in place, the speed limits for instance, why would traffic engineers and road regulators relax what is already being ignored?
I don't think you are making any sense...and the traffic engineers are.
ghe13rte said:
Atomic12C said:
I know a few road engineers that work for the local council that are of the incline that speed is THE ONLY FACTOR in accident causalities.
They will argue to the end of the earth that (1) speed increases the liklihood of an accident and (2) that speed increases the severity of an accident..... and with those two very simplified points they will attempt to resolve any section of road that is affected by an unwanted accident rate.
They have told me a few times that they are more than happy to push for as many speed restrictions as they can get away with.
Sad times.
One of their KPIs is likely to be the reduction of casualties. They will argue to the end of the earth that (1) speed increases the liklihood of an accident and (2) that speed increases the severity of an accident..... and with those two very simplified points they will attempt to resolve any section of road that is affected by an unwanted accident rate.
They have told me a few times that they are more than happy to push for as many speed restrictions as they can get away with.
Sad times.
They can see that reducing the average speed of traffic on their network is a way of achieving their targets. Not only that but all of the advice they have seen is that works...among other things.
What do you suggest they do? Open the roads up to less regulation and have weekend motorsports speed and traffic regulation for petrol heads perhaps. They can see that a proportion of drivers are determined to drive to a standard that is essentially of their own determination while others simply don't give a fu*k about traffic regulation so are ignorant of it. If you drive the way you think is safe while ignoring the regulations already in place, the speed limits for instance, why would traffic engineers and road regulators relax what is already being ignored?
I don't think you are making any sense...and the traffic engineers are.
Example : dangerous junction with a lower limit set along whole road length either side could benefit from better engineering (hazard lights when a joining vehicle approaching maybe?) plus perhaps if still needed, the limit reduced for as short a distance as possible. These options are not explored it seems. Slower everywhere is insane and HAS to reduce the thought and planning (and skill) of drivers - which they do actually need! The 'System' approach so beloved on these 'right-on' consultant writers (and the simpleton engineers as above) is more complex than they make out. It is built on the thinking process of those driving
The instrument of speed limit, reduction / enforcement (bearing in mind the wider implications associated with law and order) is far to blunt.
They don't take any behaviour into account though. They assume it is just a number they are reducing and that everything just slows down in slow motion, whilst not taking into account that the lower the number, the more frustration is introduced to many drivers and that on that side, the risk will start increasing of traffic situations they have not even thought of.
Thinking one way only is dangerous.
Thinking one way only is dangerous.
Atomic12C said:
I know a few road engineers that work for the local council that are of the incline that speed is THE ONLY FACTOR in accident causalities.
They will argue to the end of the earth that (1) speed increases the liklihood of an accident and (2) that speed increases the severity of an accident..... and with those two very simplified points they will attempt to resolve any section of road that is affected by an unwanted accident rate.
They have told me a few times that they are more than happy to push for as many speed restrictions as they can get away with.
Sad times.
A good example of this, some of you shall know it, the A614 between Ollerton and Nottingham. It's a safe road, which before the restrictions were placed I regularly traveled at a 'little' more MPH than 60. And never crashed. The same as many others. There were a number of fatalities over the years on the road. One involved a 19 year old with a Pug 206 full of his mates overtaking just before there is a blind dip, killing 6 - https://www.chad.co.uk/news/a614-crash-inquest-ver...They will argue to the end of the earth that (1) speed increases the liklihood of an accident and (2) that speed increases the severity of an accident..... and with those two very simplified points they will attempt to resolve any section of road that is affected by an unwanted accident rate.
They have told me a few times that they are more than happy to push for as many speed restrictions as they can get away with.
Sad times.
In the same period they looked at, ALL of the remaining fatals occurred at a poorly engineered junction. IIRC two further fatals happened there after the change of limit enforced by yellow vultures.
They then traffic lighted the junction, and to the best of my knowledge there hasn't been a fatal since.
In the meantime anyone using the road has to suffer a far too slow 50mph for mile after mile, because 'speed kills'
Edited by Fermit and Sarah on Friday 7th September 14:02
Edited by Fermit and Sarah on Friday 7th September 14:09
Speed kills apparently... What about this infamous accident which occurred when a driver was doing somewhere between 30% and 60% of the speed limit in force?
The authorities, for whatever reason, rarely look at the contributing factors for accidents properly and hence often apply inappropriate or ineffective solutions. Rarely do they consult road users or residents.
The authorities, for whatever reason, rarely look at the contributing factors for accidents properly and hence often apply inappropriate or ineffective solutions. Rarely do they consult road users or residents.
Kccv23highliftcam said:
Boosted LS1 said:
This just smacks of more control.
Your not wrong.A9-averaged speed cammed. Sorry where's the promised duelling?
Fermit and Sarah said:
One involved a 19 year old with a Pug 206 full of his mates overtaking just before there is a blind dip, killing 6
Well, If everyone left the car parked, there wouldn't be any crashes. Speed limit of 0! Everyone back to horses, they don't kill people in crashes! Right?The example you give above is a good one - Inexperienced driver making an inappropriate overtake (Driver education anyone?) - Not necessarily breaking the speed limit, but misjudging - badly.
Another 19 Year old could go down the same road, and make an overtake at 50, now that they have reduced the speed limit, and reach the exact same outcome. I wonder if they've actually introduced prominent "Hidden dip" signs, and double white lines, where appropriate?
As for junctions, There are many opportunities for improvement here; E.g actually moving the road / junction etc, but here it seems to be shave ~20 off of the prevailing speed limit and dump a bucket of anti-skid on the road and polish straight through to the original wearing course.
Haltamer said:
Well, If everyone left the car parked, there wouldn't be any crashes. Speed limit of 0! Everyone back to horses, they don't kill people in crashes! Right?
The example you give above is a good one - Inexperienced driver making an inappropriate overtake (Driver education anyone?) - Not necessarily breaking the speed limit, but misjudging - badly.
Another 19 Year old could go down the same road, and make an overtake at 50, now that they have reduced the speed limit, and reach the exact same outcome. I wonder if they've actually introduced prominent "Hidden dip" signs, and double white lines, where appropriate?
As for junctions, There are many opportunities for improvement here; E.g actually moving the road / junction etc, but here it seems to be shave ~20 off of the prevailing speed limit and dump a bucket of anti-skid on the road and polish straight through to the original wearing course.
I passed my test when I was 17 and didn't know what a solid white line meant until I was 19. It wasn't until I was 21 that I felt like I fully understood the highway code. It's nothing to do with age or experience either, I know 50 year olds with probably 500k miles under their belts who still don't have a clue. I am not perfect and still make mistakes and find myself learning new things every now and then, but the lack of knowledge of some people astounds me. It appears the minority are interested in learning how to travel safely and efficiently - and not just for yourself but for every other road user around you, the rest just think that speed kills and that's it.The example you give above is a good one - Inexperienced driver making an inappropriate overtake (Driver education anyone?) - Not necessarily breaking the speed limit, but misjudging - badly.
Another 19 Year old could go down the same road, and make an overtake at 50, now that they have reduced the speed limit, and reach the exact same outcome. I wonder if they've actually introduced prominent "Hidden dip" signs, and double white lines, where appropriate?
As for junctions, There are many opportunities for improvement here; E.g actually moving the road / junction etc, but here it seems to be shave ~20 off of the prevailing speed limit and dump a bucket of anti-skid on the road and polish straight through to the original wearing course.
Same people also think winter and premium tyres are a con, though seem to think that salt and the related repairs (paint chips, rust etc) don't cost a penny.
Driver education is the way forward (as in education in general), but we are too dependent on the car and most people don't care other than it gets them to work and back. Imagine the uproar if a test to drive on snow was introduced, nevermind other conditions, a test for safely overtaking, and a penalty for having 25 cars behind you because you are doing 20mph under the limit etc.
Then again, I've driven on budgets once and in certain conditions I was the guy traveling 20 under the speed limit. Never again. I can only imagine what a Honda Jazz with 5 year old brakes and brake fluid and landsails feels like to drive, 30mph probably feels like the grim reaper is breathing down your neck. I would think that education would lead to people taking better care of there vehicles as well.
Reducing the speed limit isn't going to fix anything, at least not long term, as you say people will incorrectly overtake at 50mph and the same problem will occur, what's next? 20mph everywhere?
The complete and utter obsession with speed gets ever more out of control.
Yet these are the same people that perhaps anted 80mph on motorways, the places where the speed differential is highest.
Let's be honest, the vast majority of cretinous retards who drive today have no idea what a white circle with a black diagonal means, they usually just hope for the best at 40-45. Meaning they are harder to pass, they rarely slow for 30 zones much and speed up when you try and pass them coz they so love having a queue behind them and a clear view ahead.
When was the last time you ever sat behind someone on a national A road single carriageway that was doing over and above 60? It happens so rarely in the South East you might aswell enfroce this anyway, as you wont make any money from it and most of them are have literally no idea what they are doing.
Yet these are the same people that perhaps anted 80mph on motorways, the places where the speed differential is highest.
Let's be honest, the vast majority of cretinous retards who drive today have no idea what a white circle with a black diagonal means, they usually just hope for the best at 40-45. Meaning they are harder to pass, they rarely slow for 30 zones much and speed up when you try and pass them coz they so love having a queue behind them and a clear view ahead.
When was the last time you ever sat behind someone on a national A road single carriageway that was doing over and above 60? It happens so rarely in the South East you might aswell enfroce this anyway, as you wont make any money from it and most of them are have literally no idea what they are doing.
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