Lower Drink Drive Limit - No Accident Reduction

[irc]

Seems the reduction in Scotland a few years ago from 80 -50 has had no effect on accidents.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/lower-drink...

As was said at the time

"UK Road Safety Minister Robert Goodwill said: "Britain already has tough penalties to tackle drink driving and the government believes increased enforcement is a more effective deterrent than a change in the law."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-30329743

Maybe the Scottish Govt should try funding the police so that adequately staffed traffic depts can deal with all illegal driving including drink driving. A bit harder than tinkering with the law by lowering the limit when the problem drunk drivers are no more likely to obey it.

[jimPH]

Another useless deterrent, just trying to criminalise more people is all.

[Contract Killer]

Utterly pointless, as those who are a danger are those exceeding the original limit.

Lowering the limit wont make those exceeding the original limit decide to comply with the new limit......

All it does is catches those out who have had a pint or two who were never an issue, but now over the new limit.

[matjk]

think of the children !!!!!!!!

[caelite]

Contract Killer said:

Utterly pointless, as those who are a danger are those exceeding the original limit.

Lowering the limit wont make those exceeding the original limit decide to comply with the new limit......

All it does is catches those out who have had a pint or two who were never an issue, but now over the new limit.

The worst thing was, they seemed to know this, I believe this was the intent of the law.

The true intent really did seem to be the never ending government want to change peoples attitudes rather than actually increase safety. Police safety really drilled into everyone with several campaigns when the law changed.

They had campaigns centred around morning after driving, and how a barely excessive Saturday night can have you still over by Sunday morning, they also really upped the idea that you shouldn't touch alcohol at all before driving.

This latter point I believe is what the law was built for. With the 80 limit you can have a pint, possibly almost two and still be under. The 50 limit seems specifically designed so that one pint of medium strength lager put you over.

I imagine the was one of two reasons for the implementation. One, attitudes, the Scottish government HATES fun, anything it can do to demonise anything which gives people any modicum of enjoyment it will jump at the opportunity. The second possible reason I see is some 'gateway' logic, if people drink 1 pint before driving, with their lower inhibitions they may be more likely to drink 2,maybe 3 and still risk it, but if they know the limit is absolute zero then they may be more likely to not drink at all.

[Dog Star]

Come on PH! 5 posts and not one of them is from some sanctimonious twunt preaching how they NEVER have a drink, and the limit should be zero blah blah.

I equate the Scotch DD limit with these blanket 20 limits. The sort of people that stick to the 30 limits aren't the people who got 20 limits introduced; it was the proper nobheads doing 40 etc. Those same people will be doing 40+.

[PAULJ5555]

I enjoyed reading about the drugs limits (booze is a drug also remember), you can take weed/coke and be completely sober 4 days later and still be over the limit becasue traces are stored in the body.

100% sober and over the limit, this does not make sense.

Some people throw their hands in the air when drugs are even muttered but remember you can fly to Amsterdam have some weed legally and fly home 4days later be 100% sober and still be over the limit to drive.


Note: I do not condone drug usage, even the legal ones.

[Teddy Lop]

Suprised they're not already claiming they just didn't reduce it far enough.

[Terminator X]

Did I read somewhere that the English limit is actually 50 something albeit you get points rather than a ban and the ban only kicks in at 80 something? Seriously had no idea until a few days ago

TX.

[MKnight702]

What you are missing is that Politicians like to be seen doing things.

Changing the law is something simple that they can shout about, actually achieving something (like a reduction in drink driving) is more difficult, so they don't bother.

The trouble is that once they have made a change like this, (or reducing speed limits) they can't suddenly say "oops, that did nothing so as you were" because the instant that there is some pissed up moron who crashes into a bus queue at 120mph then the likes of Brake will jump up and down waving their arms about screaming that this wouldn't have happened if the limit hadn't been re-raised. Completely ignoring the fact that the idiot was over both the lower and higher limits and the change in law had no effect.

[aka_kerrly]

^^ over the limit in the UK = compulsory ban. no points option.

i admire the Australian system where being marginally over gets you demerit points, being further over but not obscene gets you fines and or short term ban of anything from a few weeks to potentially 3-6months. being stupidly drunk proper long ban/ game over.

[Shuvi McTupya]

aka_kerrly said:

^^ over the limit in the UK = compulsory ban. no points option.

i admire the Australian system where being marginally over gets you demerit points, being further over but not obscene gets you fines and or short term ban of anything from a few weeks to potentially 3-6months. being stupidly drunk proper long ban/ game over.

That sounds far too sensible to be made law in the UK

It's almost like they are being treated like adults..

[carboy2017]

interesting topic this is and something I read about is that there those who were above the limit on the road side test escaped a ban as the subsequent blood test done showed that they were lower than the limit,dont know the authenticity of it or how it works

While I fully support the drink drive law I would think I criminal record of 11 years is going to ruin someones life to a great extent esp when the law is not applied equally to all
(eg: travelers drive around uninsured and get away with it right under the know of the cops,they also trade in stolen goods,slavery etc but our good cops dont do a thing to ensure the law applies to them

[NikBartlett]

I've often wondered how this works in the Border areas as you can easily be under the limit in the England but over the limit in Scotland. Does this mean if you are just inside Scotland and over the limit then you should head into England before stopping if Plod are behind you and if you are in England very close to Scotland then can Plod force you to cross the border for a better chance of a conviction ?

[douglasb]

carboy2017 said:

interesting topic this is and something I read about is that there those who were above the limit on the road side test escaped a ban as the subsequent blood test done showed that they were lower than the limit,dont know the authenticity of it or how it works

This used to be the case until a couple of years ago. It was called the Statutory Option.

The breath limit is 35 of whatever the units are and if someone was over the limit at the roadside they would be taken to a police station where there is an evidential breathalyser. It was the reading from this machine that was used to determine the level of intoxication. If the reading was over 35 but below 40 no further action was generally taken. Over 40 but below 50 and the driver would be offered either a blood or urine test and the result of this test replaced the reading on the evidential machine. Over 50 was straight to a charge.

If it was some time since the driver's last drink and it took some time before a suitable medical person was available to take the blood there was a good chance that the alcohol level would be dropping so the test result could come back under the limit.

[carinaman]

Wasn't it to bring the Scottish DD limit in line with other Countries?

http://www.safetravel.co.uk/europedrinkdrivinglimi...

[R0G]

A zero limit would have an effect

Simply lowering a limit still causes confusion as to how much can be drunk

Zero means no drinking = simple

[irc]

Zero limit? I doubt it would have an effect. Anecdotally the effect of the lower limit in Scotland was that many people who previously had 1 pint stopped having anything. In other words zero.

As the study shows _ no effect on accidents.

It isn't one pint drivers causing crashes. After all the govt is quite happy for hands free phones to be used despite studies showing they are riskier than driving at the old limit.

Problem drink drivers won't be stopped by changing the limit. They need to be caught.

More police, especially traffic police. Not so easy.

[MKnight702]

R0G said:

A zero limit would have an effect

Simply lowering a limit still causes confusion as to how much can be drunk

Zero means no drinking = simple

But Zero wouldn't work since you could be banned simply for using the wrong mouthwash or even, in rare cases, the gut naturally producing alcohol.

[W124Bob]

When the rail industry introduced a stricter acohol inforcement policy, the limit is lower than the English one. The reason for not having a zero limit was explained as a medical one , at 30 it's about as low as pracitcable.