Official Bodies to make complaints to about a large dealer?
Discussion
Long story short, I bought an i40 from a large national dealer here in Scotland back in April. After 10 weeks of ownership (most of which it was in the garage getting repairs) and the threat of legal action, they agreed to take the car back and replace it.
I came out with a 2013 Focus. For a while there has been a quiet single knock when the car pulls away, but not again while driving. Didn't think much of it until this week when I put the car in my local garage to get the tyres done and asked them to take a look.
Turns out at some point in the life of the vehicle, the engine mounts have been replaced. The engine was secured in the car with two loose bolts, one unfastened bolt and the 4th missing. The knock was the fact that the whole engine was loose in the car.
What I can't figure out, is how the main dealer didn't notice this on trade in, service, MOT or the 3 times I had it in for repair with them when the engine management light came on.
In my eyes, mechanics not noticing the engine being barely fastened down in a family car is pretty damn horrific, so I'm wanting to launch an official complaint against them. Not sure where to go though to make sure something will be done.
Does anyone have any advice?
I came out with a 2013 Focus. For a while there has been a quiet single knock when the car pulls away, but not again while driving. Didn't think much of it until this week when I put the car in my local garage to get the tyres done and asked them to take a look.
Turns out at some point in the life of the vehicle, the engine mounts have been replaced. The engine was secured in the car with two loose bolts, one unfastened bolt and the 4th missing. The knock was the fact that the whole engine was loose in the car.
What I can't figure out, is how the main dealer didn't notice this on trade in, service, MOT or the 3 times I had it in for repair with them when the engine management light came on.
In my eyes, mechanics not noticing the engine being barely fastened down in a family car is pretty damn horrific, so I'm wanting to launch an official complaint against them. Not sure where to go though to make sure something will be done.
Does anyone have any advice?
first question...is it all tightened up and repaired?
Second question...does the engine number match the v5?
I'd contact Arnold Clark(assumption made) to ask for a copy of the checks they do when they process a vehicle. While most dealers will do a check of sorts i do not expect it will include checking the engine mounts are correctly torqued.
Dealer may well say the issues weren't there when checked and have developed after you drove the car away. You haven't reported the issue to them and have had the vehicle repaired elsewhere.
Not sure where you'd go other than trading standards but i expect they will not be able to do much given your inactivity on it from day 1
Second question...does the engine number match the v5?
I'd contact Arnold Clark(assumption made) to ask for a copy of the checks they do when they process a vehicle. While most dealers will do a check of sorts i do not expect it will include checking the engine mounts are correctly torqued.
Dealer may well say the issues weren't there when checked and have developed after you drove the car away. You haven't reported the issue to them and have had the vehicle repaired elsewhere.
Not sure where you'd go other than trading standards but i expect they will not be able to do much given your inactivity on it from day 1
andburg said:
first question...is it all tightened up and repaired?
Second question...does the engine number match the v5?
I'd contact Arnold Clark(assumption made) to ask for a copy of the checks they do when they process a vehicle. While most dealers will do a check of sorts i do not expect it will include checking the engine mounts are correctly torqued.
Dealer may well say the issues weren't there when checked and have developed after you drove the car away. You haven't reported the issue to them and have had the vehicle repaired elsewhere.
Not sure where you'd go other than trading standards but i expect they will not be able to do much given your inactivity on it from day 1
Local garage fitted 4 new bolts. Engine is now quieter and no knock.Second question...does the engine number match the v5?
I'd contact Arnold Clark(assumption made) to ask for a copy of the checks they do when they process a vehicle. While most dealers will do a check of sorts i do not expect it will include checking the engine mounts are correctly torqued.
Dealer may well say the issues weren't there when checked and have developed after you drove the car away. You haven't reported the issue to them and have had the vehicle repaired elsewhere.
Not sure where you'd go other than trading standards but i expect they will not be able to do much given your inactivity on it from day 1
Not checked the engine number, will do that later.
Spoke with arnold clark. Manager of the store I bought it from said they don't check that at all. During trade / service / MOT. Washed his hands with it.
i dont think you'll get anything to happen, as i said i wouldn't expect that to be a check anyone selling cars would do.
Whilst its entirely possible the bolts were loose or missing when you took ownership, its also possibly they have loosed further or dropped out since. Any argument would be your word against there's and it doesn't look good when you admit you didn't report the issue when you first noticed it.
What surprises me is that after the first car you didn't go through this one with a fine toothcomb and report everything.
Whilst its entirely possible the bolts were loose or missing when you took ownership, its also possibly they have loosed further or dropped out since. Any argument would be your word against there's and it doesn't look good when you admit you didn't report the issue when you first noticed it.
What surprises me is that after the first car you didn't go through this one with a fine toothcomb and report everything.
andburg said:
i dont think you'll get anything to happen, as i said i wouldn't expect that to be a check anyone selling cars would do.
Whilst its entirely possible the bolts were loose or missing when you took ownership, its also possibly they have loosed further or dropped out since. Any argument would be your word against there's and it doesn't look good when you admit you didn't report the issue when you first noticed it.
What surprises me is that after the first car you didn't go through this one with a fine toothcomb and report everything.
Really???? I'd be expecting the dealer to do that, bearing in mind the OP had already returned a complete shed to them, you would think they'd try and make an effort to get this one right.Whilst its entirely possible the bolts were loose or missing when you took ownership, its also possibly they have loosed further or dropped out since. Any argument would be your word against there's and it doesn't look good when you admit you didn't report the issue when you first noticed it.
What surprises me is that after the first car you didn't go through this one with a fine toothcomb and report everything.
Starfighter said:
I though engine mounts were included in the MOT.
Yep - https://www.mot-testing.service.gov.uk/documents/m...But it's easy for the tester to say that, while loose, in his opinion the movement was not "excessive". And that's if, as Dan_M5 suggests, he could even see them with the undertray (which can't be removed for the test) in place.
As far as comeback goes, I'd be pushing for the full refund you should have taken first time round...
[quote]6.1.8 Engine mountings
You must inspect engine mountings for all vehicles except for Class 3 vehicles.
The inspection includes mountings bolted to the gearbox that give essential support for the engine.
Body corrosion close to an engine mounting should only be rejected if it’s so severe that it results in excessive movement.
Defect Category
A engine mounting or bracket:
severely damaged or deteriorated resulting in excessive movement
Major
fractured, missing or excessively loose
Dangerous
[/quote]
bearing in mind this is a visual inspection its easy to see how something that looked ok but was only finger tight would pass then fall out within 3 months
You must inspect engine mountings for all vehicles except for Class 3 vehicles.
The inspection includes mountings bolted to the gearbox that give essential support for the engine.
Body corrosion close to an engine mounting should only be rejected if it’s so severe that it results in excessive movement.
Defect Category
A engine mounting or bracket:
severely damaged or deteriorated resulting in excessive movement
Major
fractured, missing or excessively loose
Dangerous
[/quote]
bearing in mind this is a visual inspection its easy to see how something that looked ok but was only finger tight would pass then fall out within 3 months
I don't want a refund, aside from that issue and the o2 sensor failing, the car is pretty solid.
That's surprising to read that the engine bolts are part of the MOT after the sales manager specifically admitted to me that they don't check them. That's horrific.
Out of the 4 bolts, two were loose, one was not secured properly and one was missing. After having 4 new ones fitted the car now runs so much quieter (ignoring the knock, I thought these engines sounded like it did by default).
I've lodged a complaint through the head office of the company since the call back I got from the sales manager just dismissed the issue totally.
That's surprising to read that the engine bolts are part of the MOT after the sales manager specifically admitted to me that they don't check them. That's horrific.
Out of the 4 bolts, two were loose, one was not secured properly and one was missing. After having 4 new ones fitted the car now runs so much quieter (ignoring the knock, I thought these engines sounded like it did by default).
I've lodged a complaint through the head office of the company since the call back I got from the sales manager just dismissed the issue totally.
hutchst said:
TooMany2cvs said:
.........As far as comeback goes, I'd be pushing for the full refund you should have taken first time round...
For a couple of loose bolts on a 5 year old car that he was quite happy to drive around for 3 months without any complaint?Tony-Danger said:
That's surprising to read that the engine bolts are part of the MOT after the sales manager specifically admitted to me that they don't check them. That's horrific.
The bolts aren't. It's purely a visual check, without removing the undertray. I very much doubt they can even be seen, let alone the bolts checked for torque.
Tony-Danger said:
I don't want a refund, aside from that issue and the o2 sensor failing, the car is pretty solid.
So what are you hoping to achieve then? 
AC aren't going to completely change how they operate just because your car had an issue (they obviously haven't changed how they operate due to anyone else who's had a problem with a car bought from them!)
Tony-Danger said:
That's surprising to read that the engine bolts are part of the MOT after the sales manager specifically admitted to me that they don't check them. That's horrific.
The cars braking efficiency and balance are also checked on the MOT, on a brake tester - Do you think they go that in-depth when they check over a car? All they will do is give the car a quick once over, check the brakes work, check the brakes don't pull to one side, do a visual check on the brake pads, check the handbrake works to a degree, and that will be it.
When it comes to the engine mounts, they may do a visual check to see if the rubber bushes have perished, but their natural assumption would be that the bolts used to retain the mounts would be tight. They're not going to check every single bolt on the car to ensure they're tight.
In 30 years of owning cars (the newest of which was 5 years old, and the oldest was 24 years old), I've only ever had one car where the engine mount rubbers had become worn (when the car was 15 years old) , and none of them had ever had engine mounts that had come loose - It's a comparatively rare occurrence, so AC would be unlikely to be looking for loose mounts.
Tony-Danger said:
Out of the 4 bolts, two were loose, one was not secured properly and one was missing. After having 4 new ones fitted the car now runs so much quieter (ignoring the knock, I thought these engines sounded like it did by default).
Having issues with all four engine mounts would raise alarm bells for me. A single mount coming loose is possible, but rare. Two loose, one not secured and one missing? - Someone's been messing with those mounts for some reason.Tony-Danger said:
I've lodged a complaint through the head office of the company since the call back I got from the sales manager just dismissed the issue totally.
You might get a letter back giving you an apology, and a voucher for money off a service, or a free valet, but nothing else will come of your complaint.AC aren't suddenly going to start checking every single bolt attached to the engine, gearbox, differential, brakes, drive-shafts, steering seatbelts etc., etc., because you've complained to head office.
As I've previously asked: What exactly are you hoping to achieve from your complaint?
martinbiz said:
ruggedscotty said:
Arnold make an effort - you are deluded sadly....
Can't say i know of them being southern softie, but if they're that bad why the F**k do people go thereAC buy up all of their competitors so it's difficult to avoid dealing with them if you want to buy locally.
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