Legal advice on house sale
Discussion
looking for a bit of advice , apologies its a bit long winded
Our Mother has severe Dementia and has had to be moved into a residential Care Home , My Sister and I have joint power of attorney over her finances and each bought 10% of the property & Listed as co owners on the Land registry documents .
The Bungalow has an access drive connecting my sisters property which is adjacent . my sister also installed gates between the properties on the Land belonging to the bungalow .
There was a fall out between our families last Christmas So we are not on speaking terms it has been a very stress full Year . I have not been managing my mothers finances , My sister has access to her bank accounts .... As I work overseas . The property has been substantially done up . most of the work by my brother in law , He fitted a new consumer unit and Gas cooker / Fire , Non of which he can show certification for. I have requested copies of her bank records ( none have been provided.
4 months ago My sister moved my mother into a residential care home while I was away . I then received solicitors letters demanding the house go up for sale . I was happy for the house to go on the open market .
Then the penny drops .....Her son comes forward with an offer £299K, below market value to buy the property I. refuse and ask that the property remain on the open market for at least 2 months .
We get another buyer who offers a good price £336k The offer is accepted , and it looks like everything is agreed ........then It apprears my sister is Acting aggressively towards the buyer laying down access laws that she has no right to
An extract from the buyers solicitors to my sisters solicitor:
Dear Solicitor
I have now reported to my client. My client requires clarification form your selves once you have taken instructions on the following:-
Mrs XXX is ( our Mother )’s attorney and the owner of Sisters property so has a vested interest in the replies to additional enquiries given not only for the sale of the Property but in respect to her own property.
In this respect there are some issues which her assertions:-
1. Additional enquiry 8. “The drive, retaining walls and piers are the Property of Sisters property” By virtue of Section 62 of the LPA 1925 this assertion is fundamentally incorrect please explain this to My Sister and confirm that she understands this.
2. Additional enquiry 8 “ There is a small access gate on to Road”. There is no legal right to this, any such right is something given as a personal licence by the previous owner and as such whilst our client is prepared to continue this licence they may at a later date wish to remove the said path and close up the access. Please explain this to Sister and confirm that she understands this.
3. Additional Enquiry 8 “Their maintenance [the drive] has ben over the last 25 years and will continue to be the responsibility of Sisters property and may not be altered by any other party” Please explain to Sister that carrying out maintenance does not create rights or an easement, the access drive is owned by the owners of Mums bungalow and the owners of Sisters property have a right of way over it, nothing more. Please explain this to Sister and confirm that she understands this
4. Additional Enquiry 8 Sister asserts that she has a sole right of way. Please explain to Sister that the owners of Mums bungalow do not need a right to use the driveway they can do what they wish to it as long as it does not hinder or materially alter the right of way to sisters property.. Please explain this to Sister and confirm that she understands this
Regards
Following this I made it clear the sale should proceed and saw nothing in the Buyers requirements that was not listed in the land registry , It was clear my sister was acting unreasonably ,
I then got an email from our solicitor saying My sister has postponed the sale until she sought legal advice ......as it turns out she then tried to put in restrictive covenants ...No of which I have agreed to
Then we received this letter from the buyers solicitor
Dear Solicitor,
My client’s have thought long and hard about this purchase and cannot proceed, the driveway and the neighbour’s interests are just too insurmountable
So they have dropped out !!
My sister is not backing down and wants restrictive covenants put on the property , which both our estate agent and solicitor have told her , will have an impact on any future sale , it is clear to me she is acting unreasonably ,
Where do I go from here , it appears as joint power of attorney she has a conflict of interest and is not acting in the best interests of my mother ,
Can a sale be forced ?
appreciate any advice from legal bods
cheers
esxste said:
Surely your own solicitor is in the best place to give advice on this? If you'd don't trust their advice, get a new solicitor to act for you.
the conveyancing solicitor was representing all of us , so can not be involved in the issue with the driveway or give adviceSo I haven't solicitored up yet to deal with this issue
on a legal perspective a channel to go would be let the Office of the public guardian start the process of removing my sister as POA as she clearly has a conflict of interest. but this may take time . Surely the powers that be would force a sale as the bills for the care home is over 1K a week !!
You do need to report your sister's conduct to the OPG - https://www.gov.uk/report-concern-about-attorney-d... She is quite clearly acting against your mother's interests, presumably with a view to diverting the sale to her son. I know she's your sister, but she sounds like a nasty piece of work.
It may be that when the OPG contacts your sister she will voluntarily surrender her attorneyship rather than undergo an investigation process that might discover other awkward facts about how she's been using your mother's money.
If you manage to get rid of her you need to appoint a new, independent solicitor to look at the title issues and sort them out prior to a sale.
The local authority won't be overly bothered about a quick sale, as there's clearly plenty of cash locked up in the house.
It may be that when the OPG contacts your sister she will voluntarily surrender her attorneyship rather than undergo an investigation process that might discover other awkward facts about how she's been using your mother's money.
If you manage to get rid of her you need to appoint a new, independent solicitor to look at the title issues and sort them out prior to a sale.
The local authority won't be overly bothered about a quick sale, as there's clearly plenty of cash locked up in the house.
Although I agree your sister is acting appallingly, perhaps it is in your mothers best interests to achieve a quick sale, and therefore the offer off 299 isn't actually that bad. It could save a few thousand in fees if your sister is that arguementative. The son/mother can come up with any easements they wish then. You could even ask your sister to forgoe taking money from the propery (and you could) if you are worried about the reduction in funds.
Sometimes it is easier to just let people get on with it - she could stall any sale so it takes months, and then you end up taking a low offer anyway.
Sometimes it is easier to just let people get on with it - she could stall any sale so it takes months, and then you end up taking a low offer anyway.
OP - an awful situation to be in.
May I suggest that rather than getting into a dispute about easements, rights of way, license, maintenance etc which if your sister want . You look to conclude a quick transaction as follows:
The difference between the low ball offer from your sisters family and the offer you got from the now ex purchaser is a gross figure of £36,001 before agents fees etc.
Offer the property to your sister for £329,995, roughly what would you would have netted if the now defunct sale had completed. Agree a flat fee with the agent to handle the private sale to her for £1000 inc VAT and give them 4 weeks to exchange and completion before December 18th 2018.
Whilst this might seems like they are getting away with it , your mother/her estate will be better off then a long protracted fight, particularly if you are out of the country.
In the longer term take advance from a contested trust/will/PoA solicitor who will be able to advise you, this will sort out the other issues you have to protect your mothers affairs.
Oh and if you go this route, once it completes anonymously report her to the local council's building control for the unlicensed electrical work etc!
Good luck
May I suggest that rather than getting into a dispute about easements, rights of way, license, maintenance etc which if your sister want . You look to conclude a quick transaction as follows:
The difference between the low ball offer from your sisters family and the offer you got from the now ex purchaser is a gross figure of £36,001 before agents fees etc.
Offer the property to your sister for £329,995, roughly what would you would have netted if the now defunct sale had completed. Agree a flat fee with the agent to handle the private sale to her for £1000 inc VAT and give them 4 weeks to exchange and completion before December 18th 2018.
Whilst this might seems like they are getting away with it , your mother/her estate will be better off then a long protracted fight, particularly if you are out of the country.
In the longer term take advance from a contested trust/will/PoA solicitor who will be able to advise you, this will sort out the other issues you have to protect your mothers affairs.
Oh and if you go this route, once it completes anonymously report her to the local council's building control for the unlicensed electrical work etc!
Good luck
ozzuk said:
Although I agree your sister is acting appallingly, perhaps it is in your mothers best interests to achieve a quick sale, and therefore the offer off 299 isn't actually that bad. It could save a few thousand in fees if your sister is that arguementative. The son/mother can come up with any easements they wish then. You could even ask your sister to forgoe taking money from the propery (and you could) if you are worried about the reduction in funds.
Sometimes it is easier to just let people get on with it - she could stall any sale so it takes months, and then you end up taking a low offer anyway.
Unfortunately , My sister is refusing to sell the property unless Restrictive covenants are placed ie : her owning the drive, having sole access to it, sole access to the gate they installed none of which appear on the Land Registry documents !Sometimes it is easier to just let people get on with it - she could stall any sale so it takes months, and then you end up taking a low offer anyway.
I am refusing to give my permission to consent to changes which may have an impact on a future sale
Both estate agents and solicitor have said if this happens buyers wont touch the property with a barge pole !!
I'm going down the route of reporting through OPG hopefully they will start process of removing her POA
hole too.DBSV8 said:
Unfortunately , My sister is refusing to sell the property unless Restrictive covenants are placed ie : her owning the drive, having sole access to it, sole access to the gate they installed none of which appear on the Land Registry documents !
I am refusing to give my permission to consent to changes which may have an impact on a future sale
Both estate agents and solicitor have said if this happens buyers wont touch the property with a barge pole !!
I'm going down the route of reporting through OPG hopefully they will start process of removing her POA
Even if she sells to her son? In that case you can bet once easements done there will be a problem with the offer and the son won't proceed. Just their way of ensuring it gets done. What a cow!I am refusing to give my permission to consent to changes which may have an impact on a future sale
Both estate agents and solicitor have said if this happens buyers wont touch the property with a barge pole !!
I'm going down the route of reporting through OPG hopefully they will start process of removing her POA
I think a sketch plan would help to show the position of the public highway, the sisters and mothers house, and any driveways and gates.
Shared drives are not uncommon and if access to each property is down the same drive in usual circumstances it should be possible to come to terms in the house sale giving both houses rights over the drive - assuming they both need them.
What appears to be happening is that the sister is seeking to depress the value of the mothers house By the imposition of restrictive covenants. Her son will then buy it at a reduced price. One of two things will then happen, either the restrictive covenants will be removed and the house sold at a decent profit, or both the sister and son will their respective properties for development again making a healthy profit.
The ones that miss out are the OP and his mother (or the State if the proceeds are to pay for care).
The advice about reporting the sister for having a conflict on the power of attorney would appear to be the right way to go.
Shared drives are not uncommon and if access to each property is down the same drive in usual circumstances it should be possible to come to terms in the house sale giving both houses rights over the drive - assuming they both need them.
What appears to be happening is that the sister is seeking to depress the value of the mothers house By the imposition of restrictive covenants. Her son will then buy it at a reduced price. One of two things will then happen, either the restrictive covenants will be removed and the house sold at a decent profit, or both the sister and son will their respective properties for development again making a healthy profit.
The ones that miss out are the OP and his mother (or the State if the proceeds are to pay for care).
The advice about reporting the sister for having a conflict on the power of attorney would appear to be the right way to go.
BoRED S2upid said:
You don’t say where the sale money goes? Care home costs or 50/50 to you and your sister.
It's the mother's house. The OP and sister are simply selling it on her behalf. So the money is HER money, right up until she dies and anything left comes under her estate.If she gives it to the OP/sister, then there's a question of deprivation of assets when it comes to assessing her ability to pay her own costs. There may well still be IHT, too.
OP - you don't say if the PoA is done so both of you need to approve any decisions, or if one can make decisions without the other.
Basically, this is just an argument between you and the sister.
On a similar note, of mad family stuff to do.
a work colleagues mother had to go into a home.
His sister decides to let the local vicar live, rent free in the now empty bungalow. Rent free !
roll forward a year or so when he finally goes- he asks to take all the furniture and big telly- as "she won't need them".
god moves in mysterious ways.
Fortunately my mate wasn't to bothered about the money/rent/possessions- but the whole situation- wow !
a work colleagues mother had to go into a home.
His sister decides to let the local vicar live, rent free in the now empty bungalow. Rent free !
roll forward a year or so when he finally goes- he asks to take all the furniture and big telly- as "she won't need them".
god moves in mysterious ways.
Fortunately my mate wasn't to bothered about the money/rent/possessions- but the whole situation- wow !
TooMany2cvs said:
It's the mother's house. The OP and sister are simply selling it on her behalf. So the money is HER money, right up until she dies and anything left comes under her estate.
If she gives it to the OP/sister, then there's a question of deprivation of assets when it comes to assessing her ability to pay her own costs. There may well still be IHT, too.
OP - you don't say if the PoA is done so both of you need to approve any decisions, or if one can make decisions without the other.
Basically, this is just an argument between you and the sister.
not quite , there wasn't enough money for my mother to purchase the property outright If she gives it to the OP/sister, then there's a question of deprivation of assets when it comes to assessing her ability to pay her own costs. There may well still be IHT, too.
OP - you don't say if the PoA is done so both of you need to approve any decisions, or if one can make decisions without the other.
Basically, this is just an argument between you and the sister.
mother owns 80% registered on land registry docs
I put in £30k so have a10% share registered on Land registry docs
Sister put in £30k so has also a10% share registered on Land registry docs
been bombarded from sisters solicitors trying it on saying I need to agree restrictive covenants ...which I have refused , ....
I suggested to sell via auction with no restrictive covenants the 80% of my mothers share should go to fund our mothers care , fairly sure they will start asking for some resolution soon !!
If it does go up for auction , then im going to put a cheeky bid in ....and as shes a devout Methodist .and racist to boot I will ....advertise for a nice muslim family to move in .....prayers 4 times a day
DBSV8 said:
not quite , there wasn't enough money for my mother to purchase the property outright
mother owns 80% registered on land registry docs
I put in £30k so have a10% share registered on Land registry docs
Sister put in £30k so has also a10% share registered on Land registry docs
OK, so all three of you need to agree to sell it, because all three of you own it jointly.mother owns 80% registered on land registry docs
I put in £30k so have a10% share registered on Land registry docs
Sister put in £30k so has also a10% share registered on Land registry docs
The PoA simply means you and/or sis need to put your mother's opinion, as you believe she would do if she had capacity, and in her best interests.
Clearly selling is in her best interests. So as far as that goes, it's simply the finer points of the deal. Either way, all three of you need to agree for a sale to happen. Without signatures for all three of you, it's not being sold.
TooMany2cvs said:
OK, so all three of you need to agree to sell it, because all three of you own it jointly.
The PoA simply means you and/or sis need to put your mother's opinion, as you believe she would do if she had capacity, and in her best interests.
Clearly selling is in her best interests. So as far as that goes, it's simply the finer points of the deal. Either way, all three of you need to agree for a sale to happen. Without signatures for all three of you, it's not being sold.
mother has severe dementia .......hence she is out of the equation, its in her best interest to sell to fund her care , I want it sold , but sister has COI , therefore will not sell unless restrictive covenants are placed ...which if they are enforced , the estate agent has said no one will buy the property with a barge pole !The PoA simply means you and/or sis need to put your mother's opinion, as you believe she would do if she had capacity, and in her best interests.
Clearly selling is in her best interests. So as far as that goes, it's simply the finer points of the deal. Either way, all three of you need to agree for a sale to happen. Without signatures for all three of you, it's not being sold.
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