Private parking ticket - Anything wrong with this sign?
Discussion
Just wondering whether there is anything wrong with this sign? Signs are located in my daughters large residential car park and apparently residents and their visitors are getting fed up with being ticketed for minor infringements. Management company of the block are useless and achieving any sort of meaningful communication with them, let alone getting them to cancel a ticket is a frustrating process.
Three months ago my wife was helping our daughter decorate her flat and whilst there my wife’s vehicle had a ticket claiming it had overstayed in a 24hr visitor space. The vehicle was observed at 3.14pm on the Wednesday, and then again at 5:05pm on Thursday. The thing is, my wife's vehicle left the space for over 24hrs between those times, returning to the space shortly before the ticket was issued. In other words the regulations were complied with. Unfortunately my wife can't prove this so would be her word against the parking company. Therefore it would be nice to know if the signs meet the relevant guidelines or not should the case progress to court.
So far my wife has denied liability for the ticket as keeper, has not named the driver and has also asked to see some photos as evidence. The PPC have refused to send any photos, have ignored the appeal (out of time limit to appeal apparently), threatened court action and have now passed things on to their debt collectors.
My wife has simply denied liability but is reluctant to state the times the vehicle left and returned to the car park before seeing any photos as evidence. Apparently another resident has had an issue with a ‘doctored’ timestamped photo being presented as evidence when a previous PPC ran the site so we don’t want to run that risk if we reveal our hand at this stage.
We are quite happy for it to progress to court should we need to but it’s a stalemate at the moment!
Three months ago my wife was helping our daughter decorate her flat and whilst there my wife’s vehicle had a ticket claiming it had overstayed in a 24hr visitor space. The vehicle was observed at 3.14pm on the Wednesday, and then again at 5:05pm on Thursday. The thing is, my wife's vehicle left the space for over 24hrs between those times, returning to the space shortly before the ticket was issued. In other words the regulations were complied with. Unfortunately my wife can't prove this so would be her word against the parking company. Therefore it would be nice to know if the signs meet the relevant guidelines or not should the case progress to court.
So far my wife has denied liability for the ticket as keeper, has not named the driver and has also asked to see some photos as evidence. The PPC have refused to send any photos, have ignored the appeal (out of time limit to appeal apparently), threatened court action and have now passed things on to their debt collectors.
My wife has simply denied liability but is reluctant to state the times the vehicle left and returned to the car park before seeing any photos as evidence. Apparently another resident has had an issue with a ‘doctored’ timestamped photo being presented as evidence when a previous PPC ran the site so we don’t want to run that risk if we reveal our hand at this stage.
We are quite happy for it to progress to court should we need to but it’s a stalemate at the moment!
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 27th November 11:20
Problems you have is if you cannot prove she left the visitors space at all, how can you prove she left it 24 hours before returning. My point is there HAS to be some sort of trail of her leaving, or not being there overnight. As soon as you can show she left and when, you should be golden.
How about her phone, any photos taken away from the site. Sat nav, see if it has a history facility on to show her driving home, can be in hidden menus.
Receipts of her buying petrol? Shopping for tea 30 miles away?
If you really have nothing, it is your word against there's. And if they get some witness statement from an resident to say they saw her care there at 4pm, and 5pm and 6pm, she may well be stuffed.
If your wife left the spot, work out when and look for the evidence to prove it, once you have done that, you are on the way to get shot of it. There has to be some trail where she can prove she left the space. Even if that doesn't guarantee that the car left the space... its a start.
How about her phone, any photos taken away from the site. Sat nav, see if it has a history facility on to show her driving home, can be in hidden menus.
Receipts of her buying petrol? Shopping for tea 30 miles away?
If you really have nothing, it is your word against there's. And if they get some witness statement from an resident to say they saw her care there at 4pm, and 5pm and 6pm, she may well be stuffed.
If your wife left the spot, work out when and look for the evidence to prove it, once you have done that, you are on the way to get shot of it. There has to be some trail where she can prove she left the space. Even if that doesn't guarantee that the car left the space... its a start.
It won't go to court if that's all they've got.
Can you imagine.....
Parking company: We have these two timestamped photographs
Wife : <explains what happened>
Daughter : <corroborates>
They're probably scenting someone who did overstay and is trying to piss about with a procedural get-out from what sounds like the pepipoo-ing in the responses they've got so far.
Can you imagine.....
Parking company: We have these two timestamped photographs
Wife : <explains what happened>
Daughter : <corroborates>
They're probably scenting someone who did overstay and is trying to piss about with a procedural get-out from what sounds like the pepipoo-ing in the responses they've got so far.
poo at Paul's said:
Problems you have is if you cannot prove she left the visitors space at all, how can you prove she left it 24 hours before returning. My point is there HAS to be some sort of trail of her leaving, or not being there overnight. As soon as you can show she left and when, you should be golden.
How about her phone, any photos taken away from the site. Sat nav, see if it has a history facility on to show her driving home, can be in hidden menus.
Receipts of her buying petrol? Shopping for tea 30 miles away?
If you really have nothing, it is your word against there's. And if they get some witness statement from an resident to say they saw her care there at 4pm, and 5pm and 6pm, she may well be stuffed.
If your wife left the spot, work out when and look for the evidence to prove it, once you have done that, you are on the way to get shot of it. There has to be some trail where she can prove she left the space. Even if that doesn't guarantee that the car left the space... its a start.
You are right, we cannot prove her vehicle left the space. We have looked and have none of the above suggestions. We know it did - she was aware of the signs and the vehicle was moved by the driver accordingly. Her word against the PPC though I'm afraid.How about her phone, any photos taken away from the site. Sat nav, see if it has a history facility on to show her driving home, can be in hidden menus.
Receipts of her buying petrol? Shopping for tea 30 miles away?
If you really have nothing, it is your word against there's. And if they get some witness statement from an resident to say they saw her care there at 4pm, and 5pm and 6pm, she may well be stuffed.
If your wife left the spot, work out when and look for the evidence to prove it, once you have done that, you are on the way to get shot of it. There has to be some trail where she can prove she left the space. Even if that doesn't guarantee that the car left the space... its a start.
They wont get any witness statements from the residents because firstly the majority of the residents have had run-ins with the company and secondly because the alleged parking infringement did not happen so any resident co-operating with the PPC would be lying.
Wondering if it did go to court and the PPC says the vehicle overstayed, and we say it didn't. The PPC does not have proof it did and we don't have proof it didn't (apart from the word of my wife/daughter) then what would happen I wonder?
That's why we are trying to find some sort of backup - e.g. a technical error in signage etc.
We are 100% not paying this under any circumstances barring a court judgement in the PPC's favor.
poo at Paul's said:
"Correct Allocated Space"?
Doesn't read the best. Do they mean correctly parked in their allocated space, or parked in a correctly allocated space? I think they could lose the word correct or move it to the previous sentence.
PH, grammmer matterz!
Thanks for that, but it was a visitor space (space marked 'V') in which the vehicle was parked, not one of the allocated spaces.Doesn't read the best. Do they mean correctly parked in their allocated space, or parked in a correctly allocated space? I think they could lose the word correct or move it to the previous sentence.
PH, grammmer matterz!
https://support.google.com/maps/answer/6258979
Can support your assertion that your wife was elsewhere during the 24 hours.
Can support your assertion that your wife was elsewhere during the 24 hours.
charltjr said:
It won't go to court if that's all they've got.
Can you imagine.....
Parking company: We have these two timestamped photographs
Wife : <explains what happened>
Daughter : <corroborates>
They're probably scenting someone who did overstay and is trying to piss about with a procedural get-out from what sounds like the pepipoo-ing in the responses they've got so far.
This is a civil case, under contract law. The claimant must prove the claim. The respondent (your wife) does not have to prove innocence, but is a liberty to rebut the facts of the claim. Also, as I understand things, under no circumstances should anybody give the parking company any details about who was driving the car. You, your wife, your daughter and anybody else should simply say "the driver states that........" in any communications with parking company.Can you imagine.....
Parking company: We have these two timestamped photographs
Wife : <explains what happened>
Daughter : <corroborates>
They're probably scenting someone who did overstay and is trying to piss about with a procedural get-out from what sounds like the pepipoo-ing in the responses they've got so far.
Andy20vt said:
poo at Paul's said:
"Correct Allocated Space"?
Doesn't read the best. Do they mean correctly parked in their allocated space, or parked in a correctly allocated space? I think they could lose the word correct or move it to the previous sentence.
PH, grammmer matterz!
Thanks for that, but it was a visitor space (space marked 'V') in which the vehicle was parked, not one of the allocated spaces.Doesn't read the best. Do they mean correctly parked in their allocated space, or parked in a correctly allocated space? I think they could lose the word correct or move it to the previous sentence.
PH, grammmer matterz!
This won’t go to court. They haven’t got a chance in hell of winning. S11Steve will be about soon to tell you the best approach.
As for sending debt collectors around. Until a judge says there is an outstanding debt they can’t do didly s
t. Tell them the debt is being refuted and no court judgement has been made and they will fk off. The amount of trouble for illegally removing stuff from your property isn’t worth the risk.
As for sending debt collectors around. Until a judge says there is an outstanding debt they can’t do didly s
t. Tell them the debt is being refuted and no court judgement has been made and they will fk off. The amount of trouble for illegally removing stuff from your property isn’t worth the risk. Mammasaid said:
https://support.google.com/maps/answer/6258979
Can support your assertion that your wife was elsewhere during the 24 hours.
Good idea, but that wouldn't imply that this vehicle was elsewhere, just that my wife was elsewhere.Can support your assertion that your wife was elsewhere during the 24 hours.
OP
DO NOT contact the PPC even hinting who the driver was UNTIL you have had a look at the pepipoo threads about PPC on residents property in the Private parking tickets and clamping forum
If you wish you can start a new thread of your own. The Residents lease is your friend here,It trumps anything the PPC can claim.
The other point is that i think is a 'Forbidding' sign in that they cannot forbid you to park there and then offer you a 'contract' ( the 100.00 demand) when you do
DO NOT contact the PPC even hinting who the driver was UNTIL you have had a look at the pepipoo threads about PPC on residents property in the Private parking tickets and clamping forum
If you wish you can start a new thread of your own. The Residents lease is your friend here,It trumps anything the PPC can claim.
The other point is that i think is a 'Forbidding' sign in that they cannot forbid you to park there and then offer you a 'contract' ( the 100.00 demand) when you do
Edited by silverfoxcc on Tuesday 27th November 13:35
silverfoxcc said:
OP
DO NOT contact the PPC even hinting who the driver was UNTIL you have had a look at the pepipoo threads about PPC on residents property in the Private parking tickets and clamping forum
If you wish you can start a new thread of your own. The Residents lease is your friend here,It trumps anything the PPC can claim.
The other point is that i think is a 'Forbidding' sign in that they cannot forbid you to park there and then offer you a 'contract' ( the 100.00 demand) when you do
Thanks we have already contacted PPC denying liability and will not be naming the driver. Flat lease gives the right of short term use of visitor spaces in the car park (for visitors of residents) but subject to any regulations imposed by the management company. DO NOT contact the PPC even hinting who the driver was UNTIL you have had a look at the pepipoo threads about PPC on residents property in the Private parking tickets and clamping forum
If you wish you can start a new thread of your own. The Residents lease is your friend here,It trumps anything the PPC can claim.
The other point is that i think is a 'Forbidding' sign in that they cannot forbid you to park there and then offer you a 'contract' ( the 100.00 demand) when you do
Edited by anonymous-user on Tuesday 27th November 13:35
The key here is that it's a visitor space in which the alleged infringement took place in this case the sign states:
"spaces marked 'V' are reserved for visitors parked wholly within the confines of the marked bays. Maximum stay 24 hours, no return within 24 hours".
Forbidding contract - how does that work in this instance?
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff