Accident involving a Police Car.
Discussion
My daughter was involved in an accident last week when a Police car collided with her at traffic lights.
She was turning right on green. The Police car came through on red, lights and siren on.
Due to the road layout, the right turn is about 110deg turning into a narrow, terrace lined road, the police car was neither visible nor audible until my daughters car was at a point where she could see down the road she was turning into, so fully committed.
Police car ran into the offside front wing.
Accidents happen etc., and totally accept the Police were on an emergency.
At the scene, and after reviewing, photographing the details etc., the police gave my daughter their details, registration, insurance details etc., and instructed her to contact her insurance and pass on their details, at which time, they said, their insurance would take care of everything.
That's where things start to go wrong a little.
Wrong Police Car Reg., number,
Wrong Police Car Insurance details.
Its taken over a week for them to get their act together.
Next, when my daughter called her Insurance and described the details of the accident, their response was, "your fault, they had their lights on".
I advised her to the contrary and when she called her insurance again the next day, the person she had spoken to the previous day had recorded his notes on her file that she had ran into the back of the Police car at the traffic lights.
Is it so hard to do a decent job these days or what???
She was turning right on green. The Police car came through on red, lights and siren on.
Due to the road layout, the right turn is about 110deg turning into a narrow, terrace lined road, the police car was neither visible nor audible until my daughters car was at a point where she could see down the road she was turning into, so fully committed.
Police car ran into the offside front wing.
Accidents happen etc., and totally accept the Police were on an emergency.
At the scene, and after reviewing, photographing the details etc., the police gave my daughter their details, registration, insurance details etc., and instructed her to contact her insurance and pass on their details, at which time, they said, their insurance would take care of everything.
That's where things start to go wrong a little.
Wrong Police Car Reg., number,
Wrong Police Car Insurance details.
Its taken over a week for them to get their act together.
Next, when my daughter called her Insurance and described the details of the accident, their response was, "your fault, they had their lights on".
I advised her to the contrary and when she called her insurance again the next day, the person she had spoken to the previous day had recorded his notes on her file that she had ran into the back of the Police car at the traffic lights.
Is it so hard to do a decent job these days or what???
Worth doing a search on these threads, they come up every so often.
In essence its your daughters fault, as apparently a green light doesn't mean you can go ahead if an emergency response of any sort is approaching at whatever speed.
However I think you can argue your side on the basis that your daughter was hit up the rear/rear quarter. Damage at the front of her car will be more difficult for her to explain.
I think its not as cut and dry their fault, as would be the case, if another car had done that to her.
In essence its your daughters fault, as apparently a green light doesn't mean you can go ahead if an emergency response of any sort is approaching at whatever speed.
However I think you can argue your side on the basis that your daughter was hit up the rear/rear quarter. Damage at the front of her car will be more difficult for her to explain.
I think its not as cut and dry their fault, as would be the case, if another car had done that to her.
julian64 said:
However I think you can argue your side on the basis that your daughter was hit up the rear/rear quarter. Damage at the front of her car will be more difficult for her to explain.
OP said front wing.Even under blues and twos the police have a responsibility to drive safely. Would the collision still have occurred if daughter was going straight across the junction? Did she not take any photos? e.g. reg. of police car etc.
Edited by speedking31 on Friday 30th November 12:50
Did a person of authority come out and breatherlise your daughter and the copper that collided with her?? I was hit by a copper driving the wrong side of the road with just lights and no noise, i turned the corner on green as she was coming through on a red passed all the stationary cars waiting at the lights, as i turned the corner she hit me as id mananaged to stop.
My claim went in in two days heres took 3 weeks. She claimed id driven into her and i should have seen her coming, the corner had a large bush in the front garden obstructing view. It ended 60/40 in my favour. Welome op to a world of pain.
My claim went in in two days heres took 3 weeks. She claimed id driven into her and i should have seen her coming, the corner had a large bush in the front garden obstructing view. It ended 60/40 in my favour. Welome op to a world of pain.
speedking31 said:
Even under blues and twos the police have a responsibility to drive safely.
It's a bit more detailed than that.If the police are relying on a statutory red light exemption, they must not proceed beyond the stop line in such a manner or at such a time as to be likely to endanger any person or to cause the driver of another vehicle to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident.
Relevant legislation is here.
SS2. said:
speedking31 said:
Even under blues and twos the police have a responsibility to drive safely.
It's a bit more detailed than that.If the police are relying on a statutory red light exemption, they must not proceed beyond the stop line in such a manner or at such a time as to be likely to endanger any person or to cause the driver of another vehicle to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident.
Relevant legislation is here.
Bigends said:
SS2. said:
speedking31 said:
Even under blues and twos the police have a responsibility to drive safely.
It's a bit more detailed than that.If the police are relying on a statutory red light exemption, they must not proceed beyond the stop line in such a manner or at such a time as to be likely to endanger any person or to cause the driver of another vehicle to change its speed or course in order to avoid an accident.
Relevant legislation is here.
Thanks for all of the replies chaps.
Its quite difficult .
The stop line on the side street is set back quite a way so that a buss or truck can negotiate a left or right turn without issue.
My daughter, turning right off the main road had waited outside the yellow boxed area until the oncoming traffic allowed her to move forward and turn.
By this time she was committed and she still hasn't seen or heard the police car.
In my opinion, the Police car should have taken more care as it proceeded forward.
I was the incorrect documents the police gave my daughter that was surprising.
I was also pretty disgusted by the completely inaccurate notes taken by the insurance agent.
Its quite difficult .
The stop line on the side street is set back quite a way so that a buss or truck can negotiate a left or right turn without issue.
My daughter, turning right off the main road had waited outside the yellow boxed area until the oncoming traffic allowed her to move forward and turn.
By this time she was committed and she still hasn't seen or heard the police car.
In my opinion, the Police car should have taken more care as it proceeded forward.
I was the incorrect documents the police gave my daughter that was surprising.
I was also pretty disgusted by the completely inaccurate notes taken by the insurance agent.
Even on blue lights and sirens, response trained drivers should not be passing at speed through red lights, they should proceed slowly until it's safe to pick up the speed a bit. So they're really the ones at fault. I only passed my response driving course this year and it was drilled into us to be safe, with particular reference made to red lights.
Chalkius said:
Even on blue lights and sirens, response trained drivers should not be passing at speed through red lights, they should proceed slowly until it's safe to pick up the speed a bit. So they're really the ones at fault. I only passed my response driving course this year and it was drilled into us to be safe, with particular reference made to red lights.
Same here. First gear ideally. If they've gone through a red light, they are at fault. I'm sure your daughter will check green lights now which is never a bad thing!
so called said:
Thanks for all of the replies chaps.
Its quite difficult .
The stop line on the side street is set back quite a way so that a buss or truck can negotiate a left or right turn without issue.
My daughter, turning right off the main road had waited outside the yellow boxed area until the oncoming traffic allowed her to move forward and turn.
By this time she was committed.
In my opinion, the Police car should have taken more care as it proceeded forward.
I was the incorrect documents the police gave my daughter that was surprising.
I was also pretty disgusted by the completely inaccurate notes taken by the insurance agent.
Totally agree - The Police driver is at fault for not using enough caution at the red light (especially if they're coming from a side street with a restricted view of the traffic on the main road)Its quite difficult .
The stop line on the side street is set back quite a way so that a buss or truck can negotiate a left or right turn without issue.
My daughter, turning right off the main road had waited outside the yellow boxed area until the oncoming traffic allowed her to move forward and turn.
By this time she was committed.
In my opinion, the Police car should have taken more care as it proceeded forward.
I was the incorrect documents the police gave my daughter that was surprising.
I was also pretty disgusted by the completely inaccurate notes taken by the insurance agent.
It sounds to me as though the Police driver made an incorrect assumption that the clear (on approach) box junction meant that was safe to proceed through the red light ,without having to slow right down (and be prepared to stop if necessary).
They may have even thought incorrectly, that the empty box junction meant that traffic on the main road were aware of their presence due to the blue and two's being on, and were waiting for the Emergency vehicle to pass through.
XCP said:
gtidriver said:
Was the police officer involved in the accident breathalysed???
That would be normal procedure.If they had to stop to exchange details, then they would have been delayed getting to where they were going anyway so another crew could've been dispatched and the POLAC procedures done. Leaving vehicles in situ while POLAC procedures are completed would seriously jam up a busy junction?
Due to cuts and staffing levels the procedures for Police Accidents have changed?
Does your daughter have a Police Accident reference number?
Was it a marked police patrol car?
The procedure seems wrong. All sorts of things suggest that something's rather odd. Years ago there was an HO directive that, where possible, all police drivers involved in a reportable accident should be breath tested. That said, I retired 13 years ago, so I suppose the cars must all have automatic advance and retard by now.
There is lots and lots of stated cases to prove that a green light does not mean go. Whilst there is, from what your daughter said, evidence to show that the police driver was also at fault, all that means is that blame might well be shared.
Some of the circumstances quoted (by the OP) are at best irrelevant, and could be harmful to the driver's case. If things become difficult, I'd suggest legal advice.
It's probably all above board, everything will run as normal and be resolved to everyone's dissatisfaction.
The procedure seems wrong. All sorts of things suggest that something's rather odd. Years ago there was an HO directive that, where possible, all police drivers involved in a reportable accident should be breath tested. That said, I retired 13 years ago, so I suppose the cars must all have automatic advance and retard by now.
There is lots and lots of stated cases to prove that a green light does not mean go. Whilst there is, from what your daughter said, evidence to show that the police driver was also at fault, all that means is that blame might well be shared.
Some of the circumstances quoted (by the OP) are at best irrelevant, and could be harmful to the driver's case. If things become difficult, I'd suggest legal advice.
It's probably all above board, everything will run as normal and be resolved to everyone's dissatisfaction.
so called said:
The Police car came through on red, lights and siren on.
so called said:
"your fault, they had their lights on".
I advised her to the contrary
You advised them to the contrary on where the fault was? Or that the didn't have their lights on?I advised her to the contrary
Also, you say that police car wasn't audible - maybe I have good hearing but I can have the stereo on at a decent level and hear sirens a good few hundred yards away - generally 20 or 30 seconds before I see them - dont suppose daughter was following this ever popular trend of wearing air-pods/other generic earphones while driving?
One would have thought it better for her to post asking question as you can almost certainly guarantee that the story you have told will be much different to the facts - our kids wont always give us parents the full facts and we as parents will find it hard not to believe them.
Tomo1971 said:
One would have thought it better for her to post asking question as you can almost certainly guarantee that the story you have told will be much different to the facts - our kids wont always give us parents the full facts and we as parents will find it hard not to believe them.
And there it is.... moving on..From what you have said so far, the incident sounds very strange. The police don't have accidents and just "give their insurance details".
There is a process for police vehicle accidents, can take a while. Did any of that happen? (supervisor to the scene etc) The police car will have almost certainly had a black box, the data will need to be downloaded etc.
In my view taking that junction left to right, given the side street which is controlled it would be walking pace, taking a position as to best present the front of the police vehicle to traffic entering the junction from the left. If I was supervision I would be questioning any use of speed through a junction like that, on red, where the police driver was unable to stop should traffic emerge (on green) from the side street.
As for insurance saying her fault as they had their 999s on... that's bollards. Assuming what happened is what you were told..
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