Bad road markings, anything I can do?
Discussion
Guys,
On this weekend drive, I damaged my car on a road that according to me was poorly marked.
After some fairly straight bits, the road in question went slightly up and aftyer the crest I found a scenario that got me confused for a couple of secs.
It was grass, green grass across. All this while I was braking, but not as hard as I could, and when I tried to brake harder, I noticed the road was coverted in grip/dirt/rubble (presumably from tractors around)
By that time I realized that I was in the middle of a T, and that the grass was just the beginning of the field.
I was going probably at 40 then but the dirty surface offered no grip for turning or braking and I chose to run straight into the grass, hoping for the best.
It turns out my splitter was too low and was torn away, together with the front undertray.
Now, my question.
On junctions like this I would expect to see some BIG arrows indicating the road ends there, like those chevron black and white ones, especially when it's blind.
And there were all sorts of bit of other cars there, pieces of license plates, undertrays, and slightly to the left three steel poles with concrete bases that were bent forwards. Thank god I missed those (by about 10 cm!)
This is going to be a claim of course, but I was wondering if there is anything I can do, like complain to the council, maybe they could even take part of the responsibility and although I wouldn't think they would pay my excess, at least make them put a sign in there?
Any thoughts?
On this weekend drive, I damaged my car on a road that according to me was poorly marked.
After some fairly straight bits, the road in question went slightly up and aftyer the crest I found a scenario that got me confused for a couple of secs.
It was grass, green grass across. All this while I was braking, but not as hard as I could, and when I tried to brake harder, I noticed the road was coverted in grip/dirt/rubble (presumably from tractors around)
By that time I realized that I was in the middle of a T, and that the grass was just the beginning of the field.
I was going probably at 40 then but the dirty surface offered no grip for turning or braking and I chose to run straight into the grass, hoping for the best.
It turns out my splitter was too low and was torn away, together with the front undertray.
Now, my question.
On junctions like this I would expect to see some BIG arrows indicating the road ends there, like those chevron black and white ones, especially when it's blind.
And there were all sorts of bit of other cars there, pieces of license plates, undertrays, and slightly to the left three steel poles with concrete bases that were bent forwards. Thank god I missed those (by about 10 cm!)
This is going to be a claim of course, but I was wondering if there is anything I can do, like complain to the council, maybe they could even take part of the responsibility and although I wouldn't think they would pay my excess, at least make them put a sign in there?
Any thoughts?
Ok, blind as far as where the road goes, but could still see the landscape.
I know I made a mistake by misjudging where the road went, and when presented with it, for a second just could not figure it out because in this area the roads are very much up and down, but all of them flowing.
Hadn't seen any T before arund the area, but other less sharp corners are indicated.
It caught me out and I take it in the chin.
But having seen all the bits of other cars there I'm sure there's a case for putting a sign there.
I know I made a mistake by misjudging where the road went, and when presented with it, for a second just could not figure it out because in this area the roads are very much up and down, but all of them flowing.
Hadn't seen any T before arund the area, but other less sharp corners are indicated.
It caught me out and I take it in the chin.
But having seen all the bits of other cars there I'm sure there's a case for putting a sign there.
Uldis,
I too have been caught out by using the landscape, in this case forest trees and assumed the road went straight over a brow. In this case it was a firebreak, and the road went 60 right and yours truly ploughed up the firebreak. This was on a special stage and hence risks taken in comeptition are one thing, on Her Maj's highway quite another.
Suggestion, buy a copy of Roadcraft, read and inwardly digest, especially the section on Driving to the limit point. Then get yourself off to IAM, RoSPA and they'll teach you how to do it properly.
I'm really sorry you've damaged your car, and realise that this is coming across all condescending and I sincerely apologise for that.
Maybe there should be a sign warning what looks like from your photo to be a bend to the right with a junction off to the left. However this is something that the PH masses bang on about quite a bit and, quite frankly I agree with them. Basically the proliferation of warning signs and lower speeds limits just panders to the lowest common denominator and results in people not using what God gave them, mark one eyeballs and a snsitive right foot.
Piece of advice from an old hand. Never put your vehicle into a position where your eyes and brain haven't been first.
Best rgds,
FiF
I too have been caught out by using the landscape, in this case forest trees and assumed the road went straight over a brow. In this case it was a firebreak, and the road went 60 right and yours truly ploughed up the firebreak. This was on a special stage and hence risks taken in comeptition are one thing, on Her Maj's highway quite another.
Suggestion, buy a copy of Roadcraft, read and inwardly digest, especially the section on Driving to the limit point. Then get yourself off to IAM, RoSPA and they'll teach you how to do it properly.
I'm really sorry you've damaged your car, and realise that this is coming across all condescending and I sincerely apologise for that.
Maybe there should be a sign warning what looks like from your photo to be a bend to the right with a junction off to the left. However this is something that the PH masses bang on about quite a bit and, quite frankly I agree with them. Basically the proliferation of warning signs and lower speeds limits just panders to the lowest common denominator and results in people not using what God gave them, mark one eyeballs and a snsitive right foot.
Piece of advice from an old hand. Never put your vehicle into a position where your eyes and brain haven't been first.
Best rgds,
FiF
By all means, suggest to the council that they should put up appropriate signs to warn of the bend. I can see how this is misleading, as the pylons continue straight on when the road turns right but there is a direction sign that is positioned in the middle of the road (or what you would expect to be the middle!).
The best advice is to chalk it down to experience and in future never make any assumptions about which way a road goes unless you can see it.
The best advice is to chalk it down to experience and in future never make any assumptions about which way a road goes unless you can see it.
Flat in Fifth said:
Suggestion, buy a copy of Roadcraft, read and inwardly digest, especially the section on Driving to the limit point. Then get yourself off to IAM, RoSPA and they'll teach you how to do it properly.
I have to agree whole heartedly with FiF on this one. One of the most important things that Roadcraft teaches to be to be able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear.
So you should be constantly asking yourself "What if?". What if there is an accident the other side of the blind crest? What if there is a flood?
One of the key things to bear in mind when "pressing on" is that if you can't stop in the distance you can see to be clear then you are compromising safety.
I love fast driving and using the full power of the car but often that means only on the exit of a bend and on the straight bits. In all other places it is proceed with caution.
HTH
spindrift said:
Many good suggestions with one common, if not stated, point. You were going too fast.
I see your trying to drag us into a speeding argument again. Indeed it would appear that he was going too fast for that particular crest/corner. However his argument is that a sign to point that out to him would be useful. He may well have been well under the speed limit at the time...
spindrift said:
Many good suggestions with one common, if not stated, point. You were going too fast.
Then you missed my point, because that wasn't it! Sure if he'd have driven the whole road at 10mph then MAYBE he wouldn't have left the road. But my point is that (IMHO) lack of anticipation and perhaps observation caused this.
Munter said:
Many good suggestions with one common, if not stated, point. You were going too fast.
I see your trying to drag us into a speeding argument again. Indeed it would appear that he was going too fast for that particular crest/corner. However his argument is that a sign to point that out to him would be useful. He may well have been well under the speed limit at the time...
I can understand why a sign would be useful. However, you won't the luxury of a sign if over the crest was an accident. Therefore, the sign is a bit of a red herring (IMHO).
Too fast my @ss.. if anything I daresay your headlights suck. Did you have full-beams on? If I was driving along there at 40 without full-beam or xenons I would have gone straight over too 
The too fast argument is defeated by the fact that most cars would be able to handle that corner at 40. The fq400 could probably do 60
The too fast argument is defeated by the fact that most cars would be able to handle that corner at 40. The fq400 could probably do 60
Ok, I'll explain a bit more.
This happened near the end of a very long drive through Scotland, lots and lots of Elises from all of the UK.
Previously I had been in a group that was driving a little bit too fast for my liking, and after the lunch break I decided ot let them go and I would join a more relaxed group.
I had done about 300 miles by lunch time.
As it turns some people left the group to take another route and I stopped when I found another group. After some map studying we decided to take a slightly different route because I knew the road surface was better at the end of those roads (but didn't know the middle part of those roads).
I took the lead at this point.
I have to pause here to say that I was using different tyres as I normally would, recommended by many others but I was doubting their abilities by this time. They were Toyo T1-R's, which I can vouch don't work well in a light vehicle like the Elise/Exige.
The reason why I had bought these tyres was because of their water-clearing capabilities, seeing how wet Scotland can be.
As it turns out it was a completely dry and hot weekend, all road surfaces becoming dusty and the tyres didn't work properly.
They had a tendency to lock increadibly easily when under little load.
On the Elise/Exige is very easy to unload a wheel because of the harder suspension and little weight.
(Note to spindrift, as a reference: these cars weigh about 750Kg, and a VW Golf weighs about 1400Kg)
Going through wonderful flowing curves I come across the top of this (very slight) crest and I initially didn't understand the scene I was presented with: a green horizon. It took me a good second ir so (during which I had my foot off the throttle and on the brakes slightly) to understand where the road was going.
Probably something that didn't help was that the only sign (small, I was squinting) has a small arrow to the left, but the road goes to the right.
When I figured out I should be going right I had no grip.
You can't see details, but that asphalt had lots of dry dirt, and gravel (obviously a road often used by tractors) where cars going right would not be passing anymore, which is incidentally where my tyres were at this point.
So, the combination of an unloaded front (downhill after the crest), hard tyres that need loading to work, dirt and gravel make very difficult to modulate the locking (and I'm normally very proud of my brake modulation).
Needless to say, these cars don't have ABS but even in the snow or wet I have no problems.
For a moment after the prang wondered if ABS would have helped. Maybe a little, but probably not enough to avoid it.
So decided that the best way to hit the banking would be straight on, as sideways it could flip the car or damage the suspension.
The contact with the grass/earth bank was about at 20 MPH.
The splitter bit into the wet earth and was torn off, taking with it part of the clam (which I promptly duct taped
) and the car drove back home perfectly.
Spindrift, maybe the fact that there were three steel poles with concrete bases all bent (slightly to the left), several bits of broken plastic, license plates and undertrays left around (and they were not mine) is an indication that this road's signaling could be better?
BTW and for the record I have done several advanced driving courses and am in the process of passing my test for the IAM, that's covered.
I would say this is an occasion where the speed limit (which I was under) didn't serve any purpose (yes, I was going under it).
Precisely the example why if everyone obeyed blindly a speed limit, there could be more accidents.
I was driving complacently sedate, not all senses turned on like in the group before, and my reaction was slow.
And then the other factors.
I still believe in this case there should be a sign.
This happened near the end of a very long drive through Scotland, lots and lots of Elises from all of the UK.
Previously I had been in a group that was driving a little bit too fast for my liking, and after the lunch break I decided ot let them go and I would join a more relaxed group.
I had done about 300 miles by lunch time.
As it turns some people left the group to take another route and I stopped when I found another group. After some map studying we decided to take a slightly different route because I knew the road surface was better at the end of those roads (but didn't know the middle part of those roads).
I took the lead at this point.
I have to pause here to say that I was using different tyres as I normally would, recommended by many others but I was doubting their abilities by this time. They were Toyo T1-R's, which I can vouch don't work well in a light vehicle like the Elise/Exige.
The reason why I had bought these tyres was because of their water-clearing capabilities, seeing how wet Scotland can be.
As it turns out it was a completely dry and hot weekend, all road surfaces becoming dusty and the tyres didn't work properly.
They had a tendency to lock increadibly easily when under little load.
On the Elise/Exige is very easy to unload a wheel because of the harder suspension and little weight.
(Note to spindrift, as a reference: these cars weigh about 750Kg, and a VW Golf weighs about 1400Kg)
Going through wonderful flowing curves I come across the top of this (very slight) crest and I initially didn't understand the scene I was presented with: a green horizon. It took me a good second ir so (during which I had my foot off the throttle and on the brakes slightly) to understand where the road was going.
Probably something that didn't help was that the only sign (small, I was squinting) has a small arrow to the left, but the road goes to the right.
When I figured out I should be going right I had no grip.
You can't see details, but that asphalt had lots of dry dirt, and gravel (obviously a road often used by tractors) where cars going right would not be passing anymore, which is incidentally where my tyres were at this point.
So, the combination of an unloaded front (downhill after the crest), hard tyres that need loading to work, dirt and gravel make very difficult to modulate the locking (and I'm normally very proud of my brake modulation).
Needless to say, these cars don't have ABS but even in the snow or wet I have no problems.
For a moment after the prang wondered if ABS would have helped. Maybe a little, but probably not enough to avoid it.
So decided that the best way to hit the banking would be straight on, as sideways it could flip the car or damage the suspension.
The contact with the grass/earth bank was about at 20 MPH.
The splitter bit into the wet earth and was torn off, taking with it part of the clam (which I promptly duct taped
) and the car drove back home perfectly. Spindrift, maybe the fact that there were three steel poles with concrete bases all bent (slightly to the left), several bits of broken plastic, license plates and undertrays left around (and they were not mine) is an indication that this road's signaling could be better?
BTW and for the record I have done several advanced driving courses and am in the process of passing my test for the IAM, that's covered.
I would say this is an occasion where the speed limit (which I was under) didn't serve any purpose (yes, I was going under it).
Precisely the example why if everyone obeyed blindly a speed limit, there could be more accidents.
I was driving complacently sedate, not all senses turned on like in the group before, and my reaction was slow.
And then the other factors.
I still believe in this case there should be a sign.
fq400 said:
Too fast my @ss.. if anything I daresay your headlights suck. Did you have full-beams on? If I was driving along there at 40 without full-beam or xenons I would have gone straight over too
The too fast argument is defeated by the fact that most cars would be able to handle that corner at 40. The fq400 could probably do 60
Erm... this was the afternoon, there was still light!
Uldis
Don't get me wrong. A sign would have been useful but that bend is just one of any number of potential hazards that could be presented.
You have to anticipate what MIGHT occur over the crest and ensure that you can stop in that distance. That means you have to take into consideration a change in road surface, mud on the road, a cyclist lying in the road.
I am sorry if this sounds harsh, but if you couldn't stop before leaving the road, then you were travelling too fast for the conditions. The speed limit is pretty much immaterial in this discussion.
The IAM is an excellent first step. Well done for taking the plunge.
Don't get me wrong. A sign would have been useful but that bend is just one of any number of potential hazards that could be presented.
You have to anticipate what MIGHT occur over the crest and ensure that you can stop in that distance. That means you have to take into consideration a change in road surface, mud on the road, a cyclist lying in the road.
I am sorry if this sounds harsh, but if you couldn't stop before leaving the road, then you were travelling too fast for the conditions. The speed limit is pretty much immaterial in this discussion.
The IAM is an excellent first step. Well done for taking the plunge.
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