Non married parents separating
Discussion
So my friend and his long term partner of 14 years are separating.
Bit of a shock to him as no signs of a major issues but turns out his ex has been moaning at her mum for some time and her tenants left over xmas so she has been offered her 3 bed on the basis she can claim benefits and live in it.
They are in rented and have got into 10k debt between then but her earns around 50k. She works part time now but trained as a mid wife and he supported her through this even losing a job over him being flexible with his work. She went part time mid Jan and declared she was moving out as she wasn't happy with the debt and she felt trapped.
They have a car together thats it. They live in rented house which they are leaving the end of feb been with her 14 years.
They have 3 kids and her mother seem overly involved and is demanding a 3rd of his salary as maintenance. They are getting on well when the mother in law isn't involved but she moves next weekend and he is moving back in with his parents while he gets stuff sorted.
They have booked and half paid for a family holiday in june which they still wanted to go on but her mum wants to take his place. She has also said he is not welcome in her new home rented from her and his ex's stepdad.
To make matters worse she had told her family its over.
She tells him she needs to separate and decide what she wants. She did do a similar thing about 8 years when just two kids were involved and she asked him back after a month much to her mum's annoyance. He had just moved out of the family house that time to give her space. He started getting on with his live and she wanted him back. His mother in law begged his stuff and dumped it at his parents place. He looks after her doesn't do anything nasty but she is very demanding. Her mum is hard work and her dad fooled around so my friend gets treated like he is a monster when she says she is just not happy with the relationship.
Bit of a mess really but he is on the birth cert for all kids and they live as man and wife to this day. He is concerned about maintenance and her mum is demanding the car and threatening legal action.
On 50k with 3 kids we worked out around £800 a month.
Any advice on maintenance and legal position?
Bit of a shock to him as no signs of a major issues but turns out his ex has been moaning at her mum for some time and her tenants left over xmas so she has been offered her 3 bed on the basis she can claim benefits and live in it.
They are in rented and have got into 10k debt between then but her earns around 50k. She works part time now but trained as a mid wife and he supported her through this even losing a job over him being flexible with his work. She went part time mid Jan and declared she was moving out as she wasn't happy with the debt and she felt trapped.
They have a car together thats it. They live in rented house which they are leaving the end of feb been with her 14 years.
They have 3 kids and her mother seem overly involved and is demanding a 3rd of his salary as maintenance. They are getting on well when the mother in law isn't involved but she moves next weekend and he is moving back in with his parents while he gets stuff sorted.
They have booked and half paid for a family holiday in june which they still wanted to go on but her mum wants to take his place. She has also said he is not welcome in her new home rented from her and his ex's stepdad.
To make matters worse she had told her family its over.
She tells him she needs to separate and decide what she wants. She did do a similar thing about 8 years when just two kids were involved and she asked him back after a month much to her mum's annoyance. He had just moved out of the family house that time to give her space. He started getting on with his live and she wanted him back. His mother in law begged his stuff and dumped it at his parents place. He looks after her doesn't do anything nasty but she is very demanding. Her mum is hard work and her dad fooled around so my friend gets treated like he is a monster when she says she is just not happy with the relationship.
Bit of a mess really but he is on the birth cert for all kids and they live as man and wife to this day. He is concerned about maintenance and her mum is demanding the car and threatening legal action.
On 50k with 3 kids we worked out around £800 a month.
Any advice on maintenance and legal position?
Edited by surveyor_101 on Sunday 3rd February 17:23
Depending on your view, someone has had a lucky escape by not being married or, shot themselves in the foot.
No spousal maintenance as there’s no spouse! They may have been living ‘as man and wife’ but they aren’t, so there isn’t.
Child maintenance? Yes. But it starts at £38 a week for the first child and reduces for each subsequent child. The figures are easy to look up. Based on 3 children with 1-2 nights a week with the father, £143 per week in total so about £620 a month.
https://www.gov.uk/calculate-your-child-maintenanc...
Joint assets acquired throughout the relationship? It doesn’t sound like there are any but if there are, a sticky wicket and unless it’s a big lottery win, probably cost more on solicitors fees than any possible benefit.
Rented property? If both names on the Tenancy, other party can’t just leave without any responsibility. The downside is that if only 1 party is on the tenancy, it could cause problems if the other party doesn’t want to leave. As children are involved, it would be considered ‘the marital home’ it isn’t but the rules are the same. She could refuse to leave, make no contributation and the only way out would be do the other party to vacate at the end of the tenancy and leave the landlord to evict her.
Debts run up? Either a big problem or no problem. If they’re joint, big. If sole, none (depending on who’s debts).
Either way, a messy situation but it will be the children who come out worse if they aren’t civil to each other.
INAL*but I’m sure I’ll be corrected if I’m wrong.
No spousal maintenance as there’s no spouse! They may have been living ‘as man and wife’ but they aren’t, so there isn’t.
Child maintenance? Yes. But it starts at £38 a week for the first child and reduces for each subsequent child. The figures are easy to look up. Based on 3 children with 1-2 nights a week with the father, £143 per week in total so about £620 a month.
https://www.gov.uk/calculate-your-child-maintenanc...
Joint assets acquired throughout the relationship? It doesn’t sound like there are any but if there are, a sticky wicket and unless it’s a big lottery win, probably cost more on solicitors fees than any possible benefit.
Rented property? If both names on the Tenancy, other party can’t just leave without any responsibility. The downside is that if only 1 party is on the tenancy, it could cause problems if the other party doesn’t want to leave. As children are involved, it would be considered ‘the marital home’ it isn’t but the rules are the same. She could refuse to leave, make no contributation and the only way out would be do the other party to vacate at the end of the tenancy and leave the landlord to evict her.
Debts run up? Either a big problem or no problem. If they’re joint, big. If sole, none (depending on who’s debts).
Either way, a messy situation but it will be the children who come out worse if they aren’t civil to each other.
INAL*but I’m sure I’ll be corrected if I’m wrong.
- I have a law degree but that’s from a loooong time ago and didn’t move forward with it for various reasons.
Edited by TVR1 on Sunday 3rd February 17:52
Sorry to hear about your friend's woes. Sounds like the MIL is a real poisonous influence. 
How old are the children in question?
The Ex states she isn't happy with the debt as it made her feel 'trapped', out of interest who was mainly accruing this debt (was it on joint cards) and why (tuition fees/living expenses/frivolous stuff)?
How old are the children in question?
The Ex states she isn't happy with the debt as it made her feel 'trapped', out of interest who was mainly accruing this debt (was it on joint cards) and why (tuition fees/living expenses/frivolous stuff)?
Psycho Warren said:
she sounds like a proper "psycho ex" in the making! Watch your back and be very careful what you say and do.
She is not that bad just over indulged by her mother, her dad has never done much for her so the mum has always thrown money at her and wanted to buy them furniture and holidays I the past.My mate had tried to stop it as her mum is too involved in their relationship.
They are both on good terms but her mum wants £1300 a month and thinks she should get the car as she goes back to her marriage breakup in the early 90s and it seems to open old wounds.
g3org3y said:
Sorry to hear about your friend's woes. Sounds like the MIL is a real poisonous influence.
How old are the children in question?
The Ex states she isn't happy with the debt as it made her feel 'trapped', out of interest who was mainly accruing this debt (was it on joint cards) and why (tuition fees/living expenses/frivolous stuff)?
Think the debt was 60/40 him/her it’s on stuff for the kids holidays etc. She was hoping her mum would pay if off but she has since backed down so she has to pay it off to debt management apparently was the advice she got.How old are the children in question?
The Ex states she isn't happy with the debt as it made her feel 'trapped', out of interest who was mainly accruing this debt (was it on joint cards) and why (tuition fees/living expenses/frivolous stuff)?
She wrote off their other car in 2015 and the used an overdraft to by another.
She is defo going to the new house next weekend movers have been booked and paid for by the ex mum and she has bought the kids all new beds etc as the house is smaller so they see having bunk beds. My mate has served notice and is out by the 28th Feb.
My friend is being left 3 beds she chest a draws. No double and stuff in his garage.
Kids are 11, 9 and 5.
She blames him for all the debt but the split is like 6k/5k.
He has tried to pay I off but his ex never wanted to make any concessions to their life style. He doesn't drink or socilaise.
His real issue seems to be the holiday being taken away he is heart broken. He wanted to pay debris with the money but she insisted after I'm as they book the holiday and then she dropped this bomb shell.
He is still lead passenger but she wants him to change it.
Edited by surveyor_101 on Sunday 3rd February 18:36
WonkeyDonkey said:
Can you really get benefits to pay rent for homes owned by family?
That seems ridiculous and wide open for lots of abuse.
The mil has different surname and they pretending no relationship to the landlady?That seems ridiculous and wide open for lots of abuse.
It's dodgy when she threatened him in front of the kids about making a £1000 payment last week to help with the move and he said he couldn't afford it she said she will go see a solcitor.
Seems silly when she is in dodgy ground. Her mil said don't tell him where they were moving as he offered to leave and her space at their current house or help her find another house.
[quote=MYOB]Who paid for the holiday? If your mate did, get him to cancel it. He might lose a little but should get the majority of the money back. [/quote
Well he paid all the bills she she used her part time money to save it up.
She has paid £1200 of a 2900 holiday..
Saw him and the kids today.
His 11 year old said she feels mumy has made out daddy is horrible to live with so granny will move her out.
So sad
Well he paid all the bills she she used her part time money to save it up.
She has paid £1200 of a 2900 holiday..
Saw him and the kids today.
His 11 year old said she feels mumy has made out daddy is horrible to live with so granny will move her out.
So sad
Edited by surveyor_101 on Sunday 3rd February 18:55
NGee said:
£50,000 per year, £11,000 in debt and a £2900 holiday booked.
It was never going to end well.
Sounds like they need a very large reality check. (Preferably without any input from the MIL)
She earns about 11 now.It was never going to end well.
Sounds like they need a very large reality check. (Preferably without any input from the MIL)
No my take is a lot if it was keeping her happy.
She thought her debts would get written off leaving him and that isn't the case, she has been told by her mum who initially offered to pay them off no. Then she wanted bankruptcy butt not enough debt.
Sounds like the MIL is wanting your mate to carry on being the cash cow for her daughter.
I can see him having to play hard ball over the money her MIL thinks he should pay, against what hes legally entitled to pay.
Also by the sounds of It the 11yr old has already cottoned on to the MIL and the Mothers games.
Sounds like a rocky road ahead.
I can see him having to play hard ball over the money her MIL thinks he should pay, against what hes legally entitled to pay.
Also by the sounds of It the 11yr old has already cottoned on to the MIL and the Mothers games.
Sounds like a rocky road ahead.
^ well if MIL is going on the holiday in his place, MIL can pay for the rest of the holiday then.
Just to answer about renting from a relation. Yes you can and claim benefits. As long as
- There is a proper tenancy agreement
- Market rates are being charged
- Rent is *actually being paid* and auditable
- Landlord responds to the queries from the council correctly.
I rent a place to my niece. She claims HB as she is a single mom (I took out a mortgage to get her the place to get her away from an abusive partner). We were up front with the benefits folks about the relationship and they were happy with it. In terms of open to abuse, yes, i would say it could be once you are past the initial interviews (since she moved in 4 years ago, we have not heard from them again)...... bit that is a niece/uncle relationship so may be more accetable to the benefits folks than mother/daughter.
Sympathies to your friend OP. Hope it does not turn nasty.
Just to answer about renting from a relation. Yes you can and claim benefits. As long as
- There is a proper tenancy agreement
- Market rates are being charged
- Rent is *actually being paid* and auditable
- Landlord responds to the queries from the council correctly.
I rent a place to my niece. She claims HB as she is a single mom (I took out a mortgage to get her the place to get her away from an abusive partner). We were up front with the benefits folks about the relationship and they were happy with it. In terms of open to abuse, yes, i would say it could be once you are past the initial interviews (since she moved in 4 years ago, we have not heard from them again)...... bit that is a niece/uncle relationship so may be more accetable to the benefits folks than mother/daughter.
Sympathies to your friend OP. Hope it does not turn nasty.
surveyor_101 said:
She has paid £1200 of a 2900 holiday..
He paid the rest? He's the lead passenger?He should cancel the whole holiday and use whatever money he gets to pay off some of the debts.
He'll very probably be jointly and severably liable for the debts. You can guarantee that she won't be paying the creditors back ("Can't pay, I'm on benefits now innit? Try my ex, he earns ££££."), so he'll be saddled with the lot, giving him three options:
1/ Go on holiday and have a horrible time with his ex. Pay off all the debt.
2/ Allow MIL to go on the holiday he's paid for in his place. Pay off all the debt.
3/ Cancel the holiday. Take the holiday money and clear some of the debt. Pay off the rest of the debt.
Given that option 1 isn't going to happen, your mate should not care whether or not his ex gets to go sun herself. He should care about clearing the debt.
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